Trump just lost the election

[Phoenix_person]

For those unfamiliar, the VFW is an uncompromisingly apolitical organization. Their members are forbidden from making political endorsements on the organization's behalf. They can't even wear VFW apparel at campaign events. For them to release a statement about a current presidential candidate, even a statement unrelated to the election, is incredibly rare and significant. Kamala has already been swimming in momentum ever since Joe stepped aside. I have a hard time seeing how Trump recovers from this. If anything, I expect he'll probably put the VFW in his crosshairs and make things worse. The Dems already have ammo to paint him as anti-military. This is like Christmas morning for the Harris campaign. 

https://www.vfw.org/media-and-events/latest-releases/archives/2024/8/vfw-admonishes-former-president-for-medal-of-honor-remarks

[Manners Matter]

37 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

 Kamala has already been swimming in momentum ever since Joe stepped aside.

First, Joe didn't 'step aside'. Second, 'swimming in momentum' is laughable. At her recent NC event, the official crowd size was 109 participants *including media*. A picture's worth a thousand words.

[LDSGator]

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

This is like Christmas morning for the Harris campaign. 

Yup. 
 

If you guys lose this after being handed the election on a silver platter, you will never hear the end of it from me, and there’s nothing you can do about it.  

[Phoenix_person]

26 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

Second, 'swimming in momentum' is laughable. At her recent NC event, the official crowd size was 109 participants *including media*. A picture's worth a thousand words.

The obsession over crowd size continues. It didn't seem to hurt Joe 4 years ago.

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

This is like Christmas morning for the Harris campaign. 

Oh, I dunno.   Here's the source:

You think this will get enough MAGAhat military patriots mad enough to take their hats off and either stay home or vote blue?   When they've got all that Walz stolen valor stuff to be even madder about? 

I don't see it.  

Edited August 17, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You think this will get enough MAGAhat military patriots mad enough to take their hats off and either stay home or vote blue?

Magahats? No. There’s nothing Trump can do to alienate them. It’s not a political movement, it’s a cult. And yes, Obamabots did the same thing.   

Swing voter veterans/troops? Absolutely, even though there aren’t many left. 

Edited August 17, 2024 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Phoenix_person said:

The obsession over crowd size continues. It didn't seem to hurt Joe 4 years ago.

Crowd size is absolutely a good indicator about the health of a political campaign.  If no one shows up to your rallies aside from media, it’s not a good sign. 

[Phoenix_person]

14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You think this will get enough MAGAhat military patriots mad enough to take their hats off and either stay home or vote blue?   When they've got all that Walz stolen valor stuff to be even madder about? 

At no point in time has MAGA been the target audience for blue messaging, just like the GOP typically doesn't target people like me. Hardened partisan voters tend to forget that election season isn't about red or blue hats. It's about the union workers in the rust belt, the suburbanites who "don't really follow politics", and disillusioned voters from the opposition. Being reminded of this is probably the biggest benefit I've received from my work as an organizer. We get so used to talking to people who agree with us that we forget how to talk to people who aren't sold on our position, but could be swayed to be.

[Phoenix_person]

6 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Crowd size is absolutely a good indicator about the health of a political campaign.  If no one shows up to your rallies aside from media, it’s not a good sign. 

It's not nothing, to be sure. I just don't think it's worth the amount of energy that some people give the topic, especially in today's environment where we have things like virtual town halls and social media campaigns. Political campaigns, at their core, are just high-stakes advertising campaigns, and advertising is everywhere these days.

[LDSGator]

14 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

It's not nothing, to be sure. I just don't think it's worth the amount of energy that some people give the topic, especially in today's environment where we have things like virtual town halls and social media campaigns. Political campaigns, at their core, are just high-stakes advertising campaigns, and advertising is everywhere these days.

Excellent points. And of course, the only crowd that matters is the one that shows up on election day. 

[Manners Matter]

2 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

The obsession over crowd size continues. It didn't seem to hurt Joe 4 years ago.

I'm at a loss for words. You've clearly lapped up the MSM narrative and haven't checked the facts in all this time. 

[Manners Matter]

43 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

the only crowd that matters is the one that shows up on election day. 

Wish that was the case but not with mail-in ballot/fraud.

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, Manners Matter said:

Wish that was the case but not with mail-in ballot/fraud.

With all due respect, and I say this as gently as possible, that’s an excuse I’ve heard the democrats say in 2000. In 2004. The Republicans in 2012. The democrats in 2016…and I’m 100% sure the losers in 2024 will say, blame a conspiracy, etc. It’s tiresome-people have short memories and are predictable.  

It’s very, very very rare for the losers in politics to say “you know what? We lost fair because the other side had more votes than us.” 

It’s always interesting when someone/a side can’t look inward and take accountability for a loss. And it’s never a good sign. How do you grow and evolve without doing so?

Edited August 17, 2024 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

I was just like this in 2012. I stomped my feet, blamed the media, whined and looked for any other reason I could to blame someone or anything else. Eventually I came to the frustrating conclusion that Obama won fairly and Romney lost. I just backed the wrong horse. 

[NeuroTypical]

I'm still a fan of our constitution, and our free elections, and our system that, despite it's flaws, is still a model for the entire world and everyone in it.  I'm glad the govt doesn't come get us if we get too loud about stuff the govt doesn't want us to be loud about.

I get a huge laugh over government-suppressing-free-speech stories like this: https://www.reuters.com/world/eus-breton-says-musk-must-comply-with-eu-law-ahead-trump-interview-2024-08-12/

I get an even more huge laugh over how much American snark got created and sent over to Mr. Thierry.   Although often vulgar and inappropriate, the comments section from Dude's "warning" is priceless. 

Although I have a preference in the upcoming election, what I want most, is not a repeat of 4 years ago.  I want a clear winner and clear loser, followed by an acceptance speech and a concession speech.   I'm ticked off that the coming election is yet another example of being forced to chose between whom I want in office less.  But the more I read about history (and the more I read about stuff like that link happening today), the more I value free elections.

 

[LDSGator]

10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Although I have a preference in the upcoming election, what I want most, is not a repeat of 4 years ago

Amen. 

[Phoenix_person]

2 hours ago, Manners Matter said:

I'm at a loss for words. You've clearly lapped up the MSM narrative and haven't checked the facts in all this time. 

I've seen a lot of baseless claims that usually fall apart under the slightest bit of real scrutiny. I've seen GOP officials in Georgia attacked repeatedly for refusing to play ball with Trump's claims. I saw Mike Pence evacuated from the Capitol building while a mob stormed it. I saw Trump tweeting about Pence being a coward and a traitor while police forces were being overwhelmed on the Capitol grounds. Those are the facts that I've seen.

[Ironhold]

4 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

At no point in time has MAGA been the target audience for blue messaging, just like the GOP typically doesn't target people like me. Hardened partisan voters tend to forget that election season isn't about red or blue hats. It's about the union workers in the rust belt, the suburbanites who "don't really follow politics", and disillusioned voters from the opposition. Being reminded of this is probably the biggest benefit I've received from my work as an organizer. We get so used to talking to people who agree with us that we forget how to talk to people who aren't sold on our position, but could be swayed to be.

...That's because they've been busy proclaiming that anyone MAGA is a "Nazi" who deserves to have their skull smashed open on the concrete. 

Yes, from 2016 to 2020, anyone who wore a MAGA hat was literally in danger of being physically attacked by Antifa goons. There's a ready supply of stories of people who were assaulted by left-wing radicals that believed MAGA = Hitler. 

Even during the 2016 campaign, you had people calling Trump "Drumpf" because they wanted to emphasize his German heritage, part of a campaign of othering him on the basis of "Anything German is Nazi!" they had going. 

It was a very, very ugly period of time, and you can still find hardcore leftists who are still trying to push this. 

[Ironhold]

30 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I've seen a lot of baseless claims that usually fall apart under the slightest bit of real scrutiny. I've seen GOP officials in Georgia attacked repeatedly for refusing to play ball with Trump's claims. I saw Mike Pence evacuated from the Capitol building while a mob stormed it. I saw Trump tweeting about Pence being a coward and a traitor while police forces were being overwhelmed on the Capitol grounds. Those are the facts that I've seen.

Did you see where the so-called "anti-fascists" tried to murder a Bernie Bro because he refused to surrender his American flag?

https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-violence-portland-bernie-sanders-video-1082072

Yes, this is Newsweek. The mainstream media. 

[Ironhold]

6 hours ago, Manners Matter said:

First, Joe didn't 'step aside'. Second, 'swimming in momentum' is laughable. At her recent NC event, the official crowd size was 109 participants *including media*. A picture's worth a thousand words.

A couple of pictures have emerged showing "crowds" that weren't actually crowds. This includes one where the crowd doesn't show up on a reflective surface and another where the faces in the crowd are badly mangled as if an AI tried to generate the scene. 

[Phoenix_person]

8 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

...That's because they've been busy proclaiming that anyone MAGA is a "Nazi" who deserves to have their skull smashed open on the concrete. 

Yes, from 2016 to 2020, anyone who wore a MAGA hat was literally in danger of being physically attacked by Antifa goons. There's a ready supply of stories of people who were assaulted by left-wing radicals that believed MAGA = Hitler. 

Even during the 2016 campaign, you had people calling Trump "Drumpf" because they wanted to emphasize his German heritage, part of a campaign of othering him on the basis of "Anything German is Nazi!" they had going. 

It was a very, very ugly period of time, and you can still find hardcore leftists who are still trying to push this. 

 

6 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Did you see where the so-called "anti-fascists" tried to murder a Bernie Bro because he refused to surrender his American flag?

https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-violence-portland-bernie-sanders-video-1082072

Yes, this is Newsweek. The mainstream media. 

If there's a group on the left that's least likely to vote for a former AG and (as they see it) current accomplice in the Palestinian genocide, it's antifa folks. So I'm afraid I'm unclear on the point you're trying to make, aside from pointing out the fact that there are violent extremists on both sides, which I thought was already common knowledge.

[LDSGator]

18 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Yes, from 2016 to 2020, anyone who wore a MAGA hat was literally in danger of being physically attacked by Antifa goons. There's a ready supply of stories of people who were assaulted by left-wing radicals that believed MAGA = Hitler. 

To make it worse, some of the MAGA types were harmless old people.

https://www.heraldnews.com/story/news/2020/06/03/fall-river-man-charged-with-assaulting-elderly-trump-supporter-held-without-bail/42913883/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/23/hancock-michigan-man-death-

https://abc3340.com/amp/news/nation-world/video-trump-supporters-attacked-while-leaving-rally-in-dc
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1150166

https://krcrtv.com/amp/news/local/77-year-old-veteran-attacked-for-wearing-maga-hat

Anyone who attacks a 77 year old over a hat is real piece of human garbage . 

[LDSGator]

“That guy there with the walker and early stage dementia with the red hat-leave him to me fellas, I got this one.” 
 

Ten years of hard time. I have no sympathy for that. 

[Phoenix_person]

4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I have no sympathy for that. 

Likewise.

[Ironhold]

17 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

Likewise.

Except... there are literally Democrats who refuse to believe that these people even exist, and many who do believe that they are, indeed, "fighting fascists" because they believe the propaganda. 

Those are the facts I've seen. 

A lot of what the Democrats claim Trump is guilty of they themselves are guilty of as well.