Within the Walls of Your Own Home

[Carborendum]

14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Love it.  Actually, I have a grim looking steampunk Winnie the Poo sticker at my desk that says "no bothers given".

Steampunk Winnie the Pooh?  That was not on my bingo card.  It's a bit weird for me even though I love both of them.  But the combo?  I'm pretty sure my kids will love it.

[NeuroTypical]

18 hours ago, Carborendum said:

That's Eeyore's natural speaking voice.

It dawns on me that my perspective on Eeyore has changed over the decades.  The first half of my life, I thought he was wrong to be sad.  It seemed so obvious to me that he just needed to cram a little optimism into himself, and he'd be much happier.   

The 2nd half of my life, I did a 180.  I can now appreciate his take on life.  I no longer think he's broken and needs to be fixed.  In fact, I've moved a bit towards his perspective on life and people.  Just a bit.  I figure I remain overwhelmingly optimistic, but the pragmatic and practical and skeptical elements in me grow as the years pass. 

[Ironhold]

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

It dawns on me that my perspective on Eeyore has changed over the decades.  The first half of my life, I thought he was wrong to be sad.  It seemed so obvious to me that he just needed to cram a little optimism into himself, and he'd be much happier.   

The 2nd half of my life, I did a 180.  I can now appreciate his take on life.  I no longer think he's broken and needs to be fixed.  In fact, I've moved a bit towards his perspective on life and people.  Just a bit.  I figure I remain overwhelmingly optimistic, but the pragmatic and practical and skeptical elements in me grow as the years pass. 

When I was younger and dealing with undiagnosed mental health issues, several relatives constantly accused me of "being an Eeyore". 

Some of those same relatives now post the occasional missive on Facebook about how everyone likely knows an Eeyore and needs to be their friend. 

No, they've never apologized to me. They likely don't even remember that they used to make fun of me like that. 

[Carborendum]

27 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

It dawns on me that my perspective on Eeyore has changed over the decades.  The first half of my life, I thought he was wrong to be sad.  It seemed so obvious to me that he just needed to cram a little optimism into himself, and he'd be much happier.   

The 2nd half of my life, I did a 180.  I can now appreciate his take on life.  I no longer think he's broken and needs to be fixed.  In fact, I've moved a bit towards his perspective on life and people.  Just a bit.  I figure I remain overwhelmingly optimistic, but the pragmatic and practical and skeptical elements in me grow as the years pass. 

I've been thinking about this ever since you made the comment about the funeral dirge.  And I was surprised by the results of my self-analysis.

I had previously thought that I was a pessimist.  Then I thought I was a realist.  Then I thought that maybe I'm an optimist incognito.  The conclusion I've come up with is that I'm just detached.

I am able to see a lot of data points.  And I connect the dots in any ways that make sense to me.  But the truth of what makes sense to me is not necessarily real life.  What is the human element?  I'm too detached to see it.  So, I make a lot of conclusions simply based on data points.

That might be a very scientific method.  But I believe I have a low probability of being accurate.  As much as I see, the connections are only what make sense to me.  And what I've found over the course of my life is that I simply think differently than most people.  And while I can make logical connections, I fail to take into account the human element.

As I've mentioned before, I really like to read books about human psychology and behavior.  I'm not saying I'm autistic or inhuman.  I just don't understand it all to the point where I can make accurate predictions about what humans will do.  That's why I read about it.  I continue to learn more about human behavior and thus, learn more about myself.

But what I have found is that I can see patterns in history.  That way, the randomness of individuals is averaged out.  So, I am usually more accurate (which doesn't take much) when I predict things on a larger scale.

So, maybe the ship did not blow up.  While that may be the pattern I see, I know I don't see everything.

I'll tell you another story:

I go to work REALLY early.  So, my wife usually makes the bed when she gets up.  But every once in a while when I am home (holiday, weekends) I may be home and realize the bed was not made.  So, I go and make the bed.

It turns out that about 70% to 80% of the time, she didn't want it made.  It was laundry day or she was going to go back to bed or some other reason, she didn't want the bed to be made.  And she unmakes the bed that I took the time to make.

This isn't supposed to be so frustrating.

Edited September 13, 2024 by Carborendum

[LDSGator]

29 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

No, they've never apologized to me. They likely don't even remember that they used to make fun of me like that.

It’s always interesting when someone never apologizes, and it’s never a good sign.
 

I’m sorry you had to go through that . 

[zil2]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I thought he was wrong to be sad.

I suspect that every sacrament talk that basically communicated this idea did more harm than good.  I'm glad it's been close to 30 years since I heard one.  Folks need to learn that you can talk about all the reasons we have to rejoice without condemning those who feel sad or depressed.

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I'll tell you another story:

I go to work REALLY early.  So, my wife usually makes the bed when she gets up.  But every once in a while when I am home (holiday, weekends) I may be home and realize the bed was not made.  So, I go and make the bed.

It turns out that about 70% to 80% of the time, she didn't want it made.  It was laundry day or she was going to go back to bed or some other reason, she didn't want the bed to be made.  And she unmakes the bed that I took the time to make.

Heh - I can empathize.  My '40's was basically spent learning that a big chunk of the stuff I used to do for family, they didn't really care about.  Sometimes it hurt and was frustrating.  I found several principles to hold on to.   "Sometimes service blesses the giver more than the receiver."  "Stop trying on stuff that nobody has ever appreciated."   I found that some things I liked to do, whether they were appreciated or not.  Or even noticed or not.  I also found that I was doing things I didn't like doing, and nobody wanted me doing them in the first place, and we just sat there and got more ticked off at each other across years. 

Ooo - I just thought of another starfish bit.  Dude could have found the starfish who had strived his whole life to make it to that beach, wanting nothing more than to lie in the sun and transform into a gift that someone would give to their daughter.   

[Carborendum]

32 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Ooo - I just thought of another starfish bit.  Dude could have found the starfish who had strived his whole life to make it to that beach, wanting nothing more than to lie in the sun and transform into a gift that someone would give to their daughter.   

I've been that starfish. And I've been the guy that picked up the starfish and threw it back into the sea to have it eaten by a shark.

[Ironhold]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I've been thinking about this ever since you made the comment about the funeral dirge.  And I was surprised by the results of my self-analysis.

I had previously thought that I was a pessimist.  Then I thought I was a realist.  Then I thought that maybe I'm an optimist incognito.  The conclusion I've come up with is that I'm just detached.

It's become a thing now to where my de facto psy ops training, combined with the plethora of experiences I've had and how long I've been around has resulted in me seeing an impending disaster far off in the distance, trying to warn people that the disaster was coming, trying to tell them how it could potentially be averted, and then needing to go lie down because the disaster happened and everyone I tried to warn started screaming about how they can't understand how it could have happened. 

It's one of several reasons why I struggle with the impulse to just leave the world to its fate. 

[Carborendum]

WOW...   I just had another one happen.

A speical fireside is happening for youth on the same night that the Relief Society is having a special fireside.  It's multi-stake.  A pretty big deal for a visiting general authority.

One of the fathers made a group chat with several friends (we all know each other pretty well. our kids are all friends).  He wanted to know if anyone would be willing to carpool.

I responded that I had room for four more in my car. 

Last night : No response.

This morning: No response

Just a bit ago, another father said he could do it.  And everyone agreed.

Now, if they didn't want me to say yes, why was I even on the distribution? If they didn't want my help, why were they asking?

The wife of this individual even called my wife to see if I could help.  I told my wife that I had already responded that I could.

But no...

[NeuroTypical]

32 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

me seeing an impending disaster far off in the distance, trying to warn people that the disaster was coming, trying to tell them how it could potentially be averted, and then needing to go lie down because the disaster happened and everyone I tried to warn started screaming about how they can't understand how it could have happened. 

So, I get this too, but I don't get suffering about it.  Ever see Flushed Away?  The claymation movie about the upper-class pet rat that gets flushed into the sewers, where he falls in love with Rita the working class rat?   There's a lovely scene with Rita and her little brother Liam, while dude gets all mad and leaves the house. 

Liam: He's gonna steal your boat. 
Rita: He's not gonna steal my boat.

Liam: He's stealing your boat. 
Rita: He isn't stealing...

Liam: He stole your boat. 
Rita: WHAT?!???!?

Liam: He's like Robin Hood in reverse. 

 

See, it's only a problem for Liam if he gets all codependent on his sister believing him, or thinks his worth as a rat is somehow dependent on whether he stops the boat theft.  

Dude knows some things about agency and stewardship that are worth knowing.

 

Carb, your carpool story would be funnier if a bunch of the youth all ended up stranded somewhere bemoaning their fate, all of them crying out in despair "oh woe is us, if only there had been someone else who had volunteered to drive us!"

Ooh - and it would be funnier still if the visiting GA had somehow ended up stranded.  

See?  Such things can even make Eeyore give a rare tiny grin.  You're not delighting in the suffering of others, you're laughing at how stupid things can be sometimes.  There's a difference.

Edited September 13, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

17 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Carb, your carpool story would be funnier if a bunch of the youth all ended up stranded somewhere bemoaning their fate, all of them crying out in despair "oh woe is us, if only there had been someone else who had volunteered to drive us!"

Hmmm...

I guess what I'm really bemoaning is not necessarily the fate of those I try to help.  It is the fact that I never really have any impact no matter what I do.  I never made a difference.

Gee, I wonder what aphorism is popping up in everyone's mind who is reading this...  No, I don't believe it applies here.  But whatever.

Maybe I'm being selfish.  But is it wrong for me to want to feel like I matter?  Is it wrong to see that,"Hey, I made a difference for the better"?  Is it wrong to see that I wasn't just spinning my wheels?  Is it wrong to want to know that the world is better because I chose to do something good?

If I'm in the world or not in the world, what difference am I making?  Why do I even feel any motivation to help my fellow man directly?  Why should I?  Nothing matters.  I volunteer for virtualy everything.  And it wouldn't have made a difference if I were there or not.  If it goes badly, it would have gone badly without me.  If it goes well, it would have gone well without me.  Why am I even trying?

And, no, it is not about getting praise.  I just want to know that I'm not just moving rocks from A to B and then from B to A for no other reason than I've been asked to.  I feel like I'm the townsfolk in the boy who cried wolf.  I've got better and more important things to do than move rocks back and forth.

Please note that I'm not saying this with Eeyore's voice.  I'm saying this with George Carlin's voice (unfortunately, absent his comic style). 

Edited September 14, 2024 by Carborendum

[zil2]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

If I'm in the world or not in the world, what difference am I making?  Why do I even feel any motivation to help my fellow man directly?  Why should I?  Nothing matters.

I have felt very similar things, for a different reason, leading to a very difficult trial that lasted about 3 years. It was a very dark time.  Guess what I learned.  I learned that we are to choose God no matter what.  Even if doing so makes no difference outside our own hearts.  Even if, for the sake of argument, it leads you to a celestial kingdom where God is the only one glad you're there and everyone else there wishes you weren't.  No matter what.

Perhaps this "I'm not making a difference" is your trial - the reason you had to come to mortality - to see if you would choose God, even though nothing you did ever seemed to make a difference (so far as you could tell).

Edited September 14, 2024 by zil2

[mikbone]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I guess what I'm really bemoaning is not necessarily the fate of those I try to help.  It is the fact that I never really have any impact no matter what I do.  I never made a difference.

 

Sometimes it’s good to be able to know what God is going through.

How many times does He feel this way.

Does it give you relief to know that His effort in you has been appreciated?

Imagine performing the atonement and then having the souls that you sacrificed for spit on and crucify you with glee.

 

It’s hard.  Most of our efforts will be taken for granted or even worse.  But every once in a while we can make a difference.

Those moments are precious.  And practice with the masses probably helps us to be more successful with those under our own roof. 

With God’s grace.

[Ironhold]

On 9/13/2024 at 1:25 PM, NeuroTypical said:

So, I get this too, but I don't get suffering about it.  Ever see Flushed Away?  The claymation movie about the upper-class pet rat that gets flushed into the sewers, where he falls in love with Rita the working class rat?   There's a lovely scene with Rita and her little brother Liam, while dude gets all mad and leaves the house. 

Liam: He's gonna steal your boat. 
Rita: He's not gonna steal my boat.

Liam: He's stealing your boat. 
Rita: He isn't stealing...

Liam: He stole your boat. 
Rita: WHAT?!???!?

Liam: He's like Robin Hood in reverse. 

 

See, it's only a problem for Liam if he gets all codependent on his sister believing him, or thinks his worth as a rat is somehow dependent on whether he stops the boat theft.  

 

In my case, it means that:

1. The people I tried to warn weren't listening. 

2. These same people will likely either demand to know why I didn't warn them sooner or so completely overreact to whatever the situation is that I'm stuck having to try and reign things in. 

This is a big part of why some days I question if I just need to start leaving people to their fate a little more often on the chance that it's perhaps the only way they'll learn. 

[askandanswer]

On 9/11/2024 at 7:18 AM, Carborendum said:

• I worked as a volunteer teacher in several outreach programs.
•  

I've only read the first post in this discussion but felt the need to respond to this one straight away. I don't think any honest and well-intentioned effort to teach something true and helpful to anybody could fail to make the world a slightly better place.  There is real and lasting value in effective teaching by good teachers.

[askandanswer]

I believe that in the long run, effort and intent will count for more than outcomes. How others respond to our charitable and Christ-like actions, should not in any way reduce our desire or responsibility to act in a charitable and Christ-like manner. 

For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

There's nothing in here about whether the recipient of the cup was actually thirsty, or wanted a drink.

 

Edited September 15, 2024 by askandanswer

[NeuroTypical]

On 9/14/2024 at 5:29 AM, Carborendum said:

I never really have any impact no matter what I do. 

I keep trying to reign myself in from arguing with you, but I still need to argue with you.

Dude, you and your posts have had a personal positive impact on me across the years I've been reading what you write.  I'm talking about more than learning about kimchee.  I've learned about how humans work from you.   And I know I'm not the only one.   Online, people almost never notice when an active poster goes dark.  But you had people not just notice once, but twice.

So here's my latest argument: Yeah, I call BS on your claim that you never have an impact.  I'm thinking you just don't SEE the impact.  Or what you see tells you there wasn't one.

[askandanswer]

On 9/14/2024 at 8:59 PM, Carborendum said:

It is the fact that I never really have any impact no matter what I do.  I never made a difference.

I'm sure that some of the engineering projects youv'e helped bring into existence will impact the lives of thousands for decades. 

[mikbone]

On 9/14/2024 at 4:29 AM, Carborendum said:

I guess what I'm really bemoaning is not necessarily the fate of those I try to help.  It is the fact that I never really have any impact no matter what I do.  I never made a difference.

[Carborendum]

18 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I'm sure that some of the engineering projects youv'e helped bring into existence will impact the lives of thousands for decades. 

That's professional life.  I don't completely dismiss the idea that I did some good there. But it is certainly on a different level when it is a contractual agreement for which I get paid.

Edited September 16, 2024 by Carborendum

[Carborendum]

14 hours ago, mikbone said:

Ok. fine.  I fed them. 

Happy?

[Carborendum]

So, I had a small win that I will celebrate.

That young lady we had staying with us for about 6 months...  It seemed that she never really cared to take any of my advice.  And for the most part, she still doesn't.  However...

She called me to ask a question.  It was a type of question that you'd ask your dad or your big brother.  And she called me.  I gave her an answer and she felt a lot better.  She even thanked me.  I don't know if she's ever thanked me for anything before.

She didn't call her dad.  She didn't call her stepdad.  She didn't call any of her friends or my wife or kids.  She called me.

It kinda felt good that she would trust me for something like this.

[NeuroTypical]

That's a win.  This girl, no matter what her life is like, no matter what choices she's been making or how they've been turning out, remembered she has you in her toolkit as a resource she can call on.  And when she called, you did your part.  

Good job Carb.

[Carborendum]

On 9/12/2024 at 12:28 PM, NeuroTypical said:

So you're having an experience nobody else is having with service.  I believe you.  Why do you think that is?  Are the tragic endings somehow related to your service, or has it been a string of bad luck that someone's totally unrelated tragedy somehow appear sometime after your service?

Well, it looks like it has been over a month now.  I've thought about this question a lot these weeks.  And I believe I have an answer.

I tend to still have the carrot and stick attitude about service.  I do it in hopes getting a reward.  The only reward I want is to see that I've made a difference.  Everyone wants to achieve things.  Everyone wants to know they have contributed to the world.  That doesn't seem too bad.  But I've realized that it's a bit worse for me.

In whatever I do, I tend to want to "be the hero".  It's not necessarily about notoriety.  It is about simply feeling good about myself for having done some good.  And when I'm not the hero, I'm disappointed.  I do things hoping for a great result.  But when it turns out that it's "just another day" I feel like a failure.  Imagine how I feel when something bad happens.

Well, the Lord doesn't "reward" for selfishness.  He rewards for selflessness.  And I somehow believe that the Lord is preventing me from seeing good results because I'm doing it for selfish reasons.

Yes, the psychoanalysis in NT's brain is working.  I have no idea what this condition is called.  I have many talents that most people don't have.  Yet I feel inadequate unless I'm doing something grand and magnificent.  Part of it is that I feel "To whom much is given, much will be required."  So, I need to do more because I have been given much.  Yet it still tends to come back to selfish motivations.  I have to admit that I tend to care more about my own sense of accomplishment than about helping others.  Yet, if someone were to observe everything I say and do during hours of service, they wouldn't know the difference.  Because at the end of the day, I really do care about the people I help.  So, why can't it be both?  I want that reward for me as well as for others.  Is that so bad?

I still don't see any "mighty change" in anyone's hearts, including my own.  And that is disappointing to me.

Tom Peters would have a field day with me.

Edited October 22, 2024 by Carborendum