Hymns - why do you like what you like?

[NeuroTypical]

58 minutes ago, Vort said:

The 3/4 time signature gives it a sort of waltz-like quality.

Help a guy out here.
We ga(1)ther toge(2)ther to ask(3) the Lord's ble(4)ssing;

4 isn't 3, right?  Or is it so slow that it goes like this?
We(1) ga(2)ther(3) to(1)ge(2)ther(3) to(1) ask(2) the(3) Lord's(1) ble(2)ssing(3)

(I just wanna know how I'm supposed to wave my arms if I ever get asked to conduct.  I agree it's a good song with more going on than perhaps others.)

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Help a guy out here.
We ga(1)ther toge(2)ther to ask(3) the Lord's ble(4)ssing;

4 isn't 3, right?  Or is it so slow that it goes like this?
We(1) ga(2)ther(3) to(1)ge(2)ther(3) to(1) ask(2) the(3) Lord's(1) ble(2)ssing(3)

(I just wanna know how I'm supposed to wave my arms if I ever get asked to conduct.  I agree it's a good song with more going on than perhaps others.)

Not quite.  There is a "pick-up" note to begin the song. And some notes are held longer than one beat.

Quote

(3)    (1)      (2)     (3)    (1)      (2)    (3)   (1)   (2)     (3)        (1)        (2)      (3)

We    ga---ather  to -  ge  -   ther   to   ask      the Lord's  Bless  ings  (pickup)

 

Down beat on (1).
Side beat on (2)
Up beat on (3)

MUSIC LESSON:  The time signature is 3/4, which means that there are three beats to a measure.  And a quarter note (represented by the 4) = 1 beat.

When the song begins with fewer than a full measure of notes (in this case 1 beat instead of the full 3 beats) it is said to be a "pickup".  In this case, only one beat pickup at the beginning.  Later, we see pickup notes because a phrase ends within the middle of a measure.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Carborendum

[Vort]

On 10/21/2024 at 1:13 PM, Vort said:

In reverse order (which I suppose should be called redro)

No one laughed. Ah, well. Sometimes you score, and sometimes not so much.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Help a guy out here.
We ga(1)ther toge(2)ther to ask(3) the Lord's ble(4)ssing;

4 isn't 3, right?  Or is it so slow that it goes like this?
We(1) ga(2)ther(3) to(1)ge(2)ther(3) to(1) ask(2) the(3) Lord's(1) ble(2)ssing(3)

(I just wanna know how I'm supposed to wave my arms if I ever get asked to conduct.  I agree it's a good song with more going on than perhaps others.)

What Carb said.

[zil2]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

No one laughed. Ah, well. Sometimes you score, and sometimes not so much.

OK, I finally stopped long enough to notice your joke.  Very good.  We should write to Merriam-Webster - or something.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I like this version of a Poor Wayfairing Man of Grief

 

[Still_Small_Voice]

On 10/7/2024 at 7:26 AM, JohnsonJones said:

I actually haven't had a hymn I disliked until recently.  The only hymn I dislike is Amazing Grace.

Perhaps it's my life I had prior to converting to the church, or just a general distaste, but the song has always ground at me somewhat wrongly.

I used to dislike Amazing Grace until I learned the story behind the song.  The lyrics were written by a man who was a slave trader.  Later in his life, became a Christian.  His testimony and work with the work of many others including William Wilberforce help abolish the Trans-Atlantic English slave trade.

The memories of the horrid things he did during the slave trade haunted him the rest of his life. 

[Vort]

34 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I used to dislike Amazing Grace until I learned the story behind the song.  The lyrics were written by a man who was a slave trader.  Later in his life, became a Christian.  His testimony and work with the work of many others including William Wilberforce help abolish the Trans-Atlantic English slave trade.

The memories of the horrid things he did during the slave trade haunted him the rest of his life. 

I agree, the backstory to Amazing Grace is touching. That does modify my feelings toward the hymn, but not enough to make me a fan of it.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

I used to dislike Amazing Grace until I learned the story behind the song.  The lyrics were written by a man who was a slave trader.  Later in his life, became a Christian.  His testimony and work with the work of many others including William Wilberforce help abolish the Trans-Atlantic English slave trade.

The memories of the horrid things he did during the slave trade haunted him the rest of his life. 

The movie by the same name is well worth watching.

[NeuroTypical]

18 hours ago, Vort said:

What Carb said.

Imma still conduct 4/4, and they can fire me.

(I mean, they already did a long time ago, but if they ever ask me again...)

[Carborendum]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Imma still conduct 4/4, and they can fire me.

(I mean, they already did a long time ago, but if they ever ask me again...)

I've noticed that you aren't the only one...

[Jamie123]

On 11/26/2024 at 2:32 AM, Vort said:

I agree, the backstory to Amazing Grace is touching. That does modify my feelings toward the hymn, but not enough to make me a fan of it.

I've always had a soft spot for John Newton. I've often thought "I'm a terrible man but I never did what he did, so maybe there's still hope for me".

There's a story that during a storm at sea, Newton prayed to God promising to change his ways. Nevertheless, after the ship did not sink, he made several more slaving voyages before he quit - showing that if you have difficulty living up to your covenants you shouldn't despair.

[Jamie123]

"Lo he comes with clouds descending, once for mortal sinners slain" - Great hymn by Wesley. I just love the imagery - the majesty of the churning clouds etc.

"Onward Christian Soldiers" - Encourages you to show a bit of backbone. (Something I badly need!) The song is mostly banned these days for "warlike imagery".

"When a Knight Won His Spurs" - another "backbone" hymn, with the lovely phrase "let faith me my shield and let joy be my steed". Faith defends and joy propels. Nobody apart from me seems to like this hymn. People quickly change the subject whenever I mention it. (Probably because it's about killing "dragons of anger and ogres of greed" - killing is wrong dontcha know?)

A few more:

"O thou who camest from above, the fire perpetual to impart"

"Had Christ that once was slain ne'er burst his three day prison, our faith had been in vain, but now is Christ arisen!"

"Love divine, all loves excelling, joy of heaven to earth come down"

"The spacious firmament on high..."

"O love that will not let me go, I rest my weary soul in thee, I give thee back the life I know...etc."

"All my hope on God is founded, he doth still my trust renew..."

"O Holy Ghost our souls inspire and lighten with celestial fire..."

Can't forget "To be a Pilgrim!" - Bunyan's original lyrics and the newer version - I love them both.

So many more...

Edited December 1, 2024 by Jamie123

[Vort]

In the US, we have a patriotic hymn called "The Battle Hymn of the Republic". Most would recognize it from its chorus or refrain: "Glory, glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on!" As a child, I loved patriotic hymns and songs—"America the Beautiful" always was and still is a favorite—and so to this day, I like "The Battle Hymn of the Republic". The Tabernacle Choir has performed it on many occasions. It is sung to the same tune as "John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave", and I believe that, like that song, it is a northern Civil War song.

A week or two ago while considering the song/hymn, something occurred to me: The Battle Hymn of the Republic is about soldiers marching into death and prisoners of war who knew perfectly well that they would likely soon die.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of his terrible swift sword.
His truth is marching on!

What is the nature of that "terrible swift sword"? What constitutes the "glory of the coming of the Lord" that the narrator claims to have seen with his own eyes? The second and third verses, seldom sung today, answer these questions.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps.
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps.
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on!

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal";
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.

The second verse appears to clarify that "the glory of the coming of the Lord" is the bitter war waged to free the slaves. God is visible in the watchfires of the encamped troops, altars to God's justice, and the fateful lightning is undoubtedly the cannon's roar and the musket's flash. In the third verse, the composer sees fit to speak for God in explicit denunciation of the South, a God whose "fiery gospel" is expressed "in burnished rows of steel".

The fourth verse makes it clear that the war is God's war, and nothing but a real war of blood and death. The fifth verse demonstrates that the composer, herself a woman, wrote the song from the point of view of men who were expecting death.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! Be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

The last line is often bowdlerized to read "As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free", but that is not what the song's author originally wrote. Contrary to my childhood-formed lifelong impression, "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a very gritty anthem of war and death in service of freedom. It gives me a new perspective on an old song.

Edited December 2, 2024 by Vort

[Carborendum]

We sang this piece in my high school choir.  I have never heard other choirs perform it until now.  I searched and searched to find the melody that I remembered.  

I finally realized that the tune I was remembering was the bass line, not the melody. I can still sing the first several lines.

I could not invoke the memory of the melody because, despite having twice as many sopranos as basses, we sang the bass line more loudly than they sang the melody.  And the conductor didn't correct us.

I really liked the bass line. 

Now I also appreciate the full choral version.

[Carborendum]

On 12/1/2024 at 8:59 PM, Vort said:

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

The last line is often bowdlerized to read "As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free", but that is not what the song's author originally wrote. 

Joseph F. Smith was five years old when he stood over his father's (Hyrum's) casket.  His mother, Mary Fielding Smith said:

Quote

Your father died for the truth.  Now you must live for it.

Edited December 6, 2024 by Carborendum

[Carborendum]

I've officially aged into the grumpy old man phase of my life.  

I was highly judgmental of a young man who apparently hadn't quite hit, or possibly just hit, puberty.  The choir is singing I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day for our Christmas Program (which I think we're having this coming Sunday).  

This young man barely gave a hollow-whistly sound when he sang the first lines.  

This happens to be my favorite Christmas carol.  And he ruined it.  I hung my head in despair, alright.  But then I hung in shame.  I have to give this kid props for being willing to put himself in front of the ward and do his best.  I have to stop being such a music snob.

[zil2]

41 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I have to stop being such a music snob.

The vast majority of humans aren't trained in music, let alone to sing.  I've decided this is one of the great wrongs of the modern world.  All children should be trained to sing as a normal part of being a good human, no different from being taught how to read.  (NOTE: I can't sing to save my life.)

[Carborendum]

24 minutes ago, zil2 said:

The vast majority of humans aren't trained in music, let alone to sing.  I've decided this is one of the great wrongs of the modern world.  All children should be trained to sing as a normal part of being a good human, no different from being taught how to read.  (NOTE: I can't sing to save my life.)

I think I spoke of when I taught my bishop how to sing.  He got to the point where his wife turned to him and said, "Wow!  You didn't sound terrible that time."

Considering how he was when I first tutored him, I was gratified by that comment.

[Vort]

8 hours ago, zil2 said:

The vast majority of humans aren't trained in music, let alone to sing.  I've decided this is one of the great wrongs of the modern world.  All children should be trained to sing as a normal part of being a good human, no different from being taught how to read.  (NOTE: I can't sing to save my life.)

My granddaughters are being taught to sing by their mother. I sang to my children all through their childhood, but only a couple of them seem to have absorbed my interest in and captivation by song. I am not trained beyond high school choir and Church choir. My father had a truly beautiful voice, even untrained. I inherited his love of song, but not the beauty of his voice. I'm planning on developing that talent in the next life.

[Vort]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I think I spoke of when I taught my bishop how to sing.  He got to the point where his wife turned to him and said, "Wow!  You didn't sound terrible that time."

Considering how he was when I first tutored him, I was gratified by that comment.

I've mentioned my father-in-law before, how he was one of the best men I have ever known. He would sing the hymns, strongly if not exactly loudly, singing and shouting his praises to his Father. He could not carry a tune in a bucket. But he sang anyway.

From my father, I learned the beauty of the human voice. From my father-in-law, I learned that God finds beauty in those who sing His praises, even if they may not have as beautiful a voice by our mortal standards as we might wish. To God and to my wife, and frankly to me, my father-in-law's voice was beautiful.

[SilentOne]

I am reminded of a story in this month's Liahona

Her Offering Is Acceptable

[Carborendum]

11 hours ago, Vort said:

My granddaughters are being taught to sing by their mother. I sang to my children all through their childhood, but only a couple of them seem to have absorbed my interest in and captivation by song. I am not trained beyond high school choir and Church choir. My father had a truly beautiful voice, even untrained. I inherited his love of song, but not the beauty of his voice. I'm planning on developing that talent in the next life.

It's interesting to note that musical talent is all over the board when it comes to genetics.

I've always had a good singing voice since I was a child.  I didn't have any special training.  I was simply able to reproduce sounds I heard with reasonable accuracy. 

OTOH, my biological sister really couldn't sing all that well.  Even after much training, she was only a barely average singer.

My wife actually has a very good voice box and ability to sing.  But she doesn't have the ear for it.  She can sing melodies just fine.  But because she's an alto, she has difficulty picking out the harmony.  So, she just doesn't sing with a choir.

My kids are all up and down the spectrum.  One of my sons can't carry a tune in a bucket.  A couple others are at my level or better. The rest are pretty good as long as they practice.  And some practice more than others.

My two oldest brothers are a good example of no-match-genetics.  My oldest trained in voice, piano, and guitar for many years.  He even played guitar at the request of a professional vocalist for a major orchestra.  But when it came to his voice, he sang well enough.  But it was nothing to write home about -- even after many years of professional coaching. 

His was nowhere near as good as the other brother who never had any vocal training at all.  He just had a natural singing voice that charmed women and men alike.  And he happened to look a lot like Mel Gibson. 

And neither of my parents had any musical talent at all.  My dad thought he did.  And he was even in the local light opera.  But he wasn't all that good.

DNA.  Does it really predict anything?  

[mordorbund]

The wonderful thing about congregational singing is that, no matter how bad your voice you are still invited to join in with enthusiasm. The not-so-wonderful thing about congregational singing is that it’s also true for your neighbor.

[zil2]

Seems like as good a place as any for this...  Someone made a game like Wordle, only it's Hymnle - as far as I know so far, it includes both the regular hymnal and the Children's Songbook.  It doesn't mention the new hymns, but you probably shouldn't rule them out...

https://hymnle.com/

Edited January 3 by zil2