Now That Trump Has Won...

[Carborendum]

I tend to believe that the assassination of the UHC CEO is the beginning of either nationwide mob violence or civil war.

[LDSGator]

48 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I tend to believe that the assassination of the UHC CEO is the beginning of either nationwide mob violence or civil war.

It‘s neither. It was a targeted assassination. 

[NeuroTypical]

I'm appreciating the back and forth.  I don't think a nation can survive without contentious-but-still-civil debate going on, and I'm grateful Thirdhour allows it.

Wanted to address this one: 

16 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Funny how you never hear about the flip side of that particular coin.

The last time I checked, both sides were pretty clearly in agreement about some things.   

The left holds women in a class of historically marginalized people who have had to fight for centuries to gain things like laws that don't treat them as property, the right to do things like own property and vote.  Last I checked (which was last week actually), there were still plenty of folks on the left valuing women's safe spaces, the right to live a life without fear, etc. 

So from that perspective, let's take a moment to look at this fun vid made by all the biological men invading the Capitol hill women's room in the last day or two, to protest banning men in women's rest rooms.  I hear a bunch of 'em got arrested.  

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1864517663155999053

Anyway, your accusation has validity.  We talk a lot about men invading women's spaces, but not so much the other way around.  Yeah, we pay pretty much zero attention to protecting men's spaces, etc.  Because a woman heading into a men's room will be, 99 out of 100 times, more vulnerable and more prone to being in danger than the men.  And while bio men winning in girls/women's sports has become such a thing that the United Nations finally took a stand against it, a biological woman trying to compete in boys/men's sports, will probably not win the trophy. 

In short, of course this isn't a two sided coin.  Men are stronger and more aggressive than women.  We can take care of ourselves.    Men are stronger than women.  They don't belong in women's rest rooms.   From my perspective, you gotta ignore a lot of very common sense science in order to think of this in terms of a two sided coin.

Of course, when we're talking minors, the gender disparity disappears.  I do not want this female-to-male person going into the boy's bathroom.  Us grown ups can have grown up debates all day about the issue, but I'll be resisting the cultural indoctrination and forced-confusion policies like letting boys or girls go into each other's bathrooms, for as long as I hold breath. 

Edited December 6, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

17 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Men are stronger and more aggressive than women.  We can take care of ourselves.    Men are stronger than women.  They don't belong in women's rest rooms

Exactly.   

[SilentOne]

19 hours ago, zil2 said:

Awww.  I was hoping we were all related.  Of course, maybe we still are and you just need more folks added to your tree!

And of course the Pocahontas line is the only way we could possibly be related. 

[Ironhold]

15 hours ago, LDSGator said:

The women doing this fail to comprehend that there are other options for 80% of men, and these girls will just be ignored. It shows they have no understanding of anything past sex, and can’t provide any value to a man other than their bodies. 

I say they should continue their strike. I support them fully. I don’t want my single guy friends to date ANY of these girls! 

A few weeks ago an anime & merchandise store opened up here in town. As the entertainment writer, editorial asked me to cover the opening. 

Cue a conversation in which I explained to the features editor that a lot of dudes have decided $35 + tax for an anime girl statuette is the best way to go in life. 

She'll always greet him with a smile, never gossip with her friends about him, never betray his trust, never use anything he said in confidence against him, never judge him, and never leave of her own volition. She'll just be a quiet comfort in his life, there to listen whenever he needs to let his emotions out. 

A lot of the guys who go this route are dealing with undiagnosed / untreated mental illness, especially depression. Many have also been torn to pieces by a brutal local dating scene or have otherwise been greatly discouraged by their inability to make sense of what women are seeking in a partner. A few have even been in bad relationships, or have heard horror stories of what can happen when a relationship goes bad. 

Thus, the desire for a waifu instead of a wife. 

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

She'll always greet him with a smile, never gossip with her friends about him, never betray his trust, never use anything he said in confidence against him, never judge him, and never leave of her own volition. She'll just be a quiet comfort in his life, there to listen whenever he needs to let his emotions out. 

A lot of the guys who go this route are dealing with undiagnosed / untreated mental illness, especially depression. Many have also been torn to pieces by a brutal local dating scene or have otherwise been greatly discouraged by their inability to make sense of what women are seeking in a partner. A few have even been in bad relationships, or have heard horror stories of what can happen when a relationship goes bad. 

I’m married to the most wonderful girl in the world, so none of this applies to me. This is strictly what I’ve heard from single friends. 
 

You are absolutely right. Men hear nothing but negative things and lectures from their bosses, pastors, bishops, about how they need to “do better.”    If you had to hear that nagging from everyone else the last thing you would want is to go home and hear -more nagging. 

So I don’t blame the men for doing exactly what you describe.  

Edited December 6, 2024 by LDSGator

[Ironhold]

4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I’m married to the most wonderful girl in the world, so none of this applies to me. This is strictly what I’ve heard from single friends. 
 

You are absolutely right. Men hear nothing but negative things and lectures from their bosses, pastors, bishops, about how they need to “do better.”    If you had to hear that nagging from everyone else the last thing you would want is to go home and hear -more nagging. 

So I don’t blame the men for doing exactly what you describe.  

People don't understand that loneliness is an epidemic in this country, and that one of the negative side effects of the nation's headlong charge into "change" and "progress" is that traditional social networks and gathering places have largely been sundered without proper replacements being established. 

In the case of dating, a lot of the systems and structures that people used to use in order to meet other individuals are gone or have changed so radically that the "rules" everyone was told to expect to go by don't apply anymore. 

This is one of those situations to where, as the saying goes, a person can make all the right moves but still lose the game. 

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

People don't understand that loneliness is an epidemic in this country, and that one of the negative side effects of the nation's headlong charge into "change" and "progress" is that traditional social networks and gathering places have largely been sundered without proper replacements being established. 

In the case of dating, a lot of the systems and structures that people used to use in order to meet other individuals are gone or have changed so radically that the "rules" everyone was told to expect to go by don't apply anymore. 

This is one of those situations to where, as the saying goes, a person can make all the right moves but still lose the game. 

True, but with a massive caveat. If you are unpleasant, abrasive, rude and nasty, you have no right to wonder why you are unpopular and lonely. 

[Vort]

4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

So I don’t blame the men for doing exactly what you describe.

Not really a matter of blame. I doubt you, I, or almost anyone else thinks a waifu anime doll is a healthy way to conduct a relationship. Kind of the blow-up doll route. But it's tragic that these men, who perhaps would have found a niche and lived a healthy social life in past generations (or, to be fair, perhaps not),would today be enticed to live a sad shadow reality of what they yearn for. And the blatant double standard is not condemned or even recognized, unless it is to be celebrated. NT's perceptive and valid observations about the inappropriateness of always considering the "two-sidedness" of the transsex coin notwithstanding, we should want and expect  better for our brothers.

There is nothing so dangerous as a society with a large population of marginalized umnarried men. On this path, our society will self-destruct, and we as a society will have earned that result, just as surely as the Nephites earned their end.

[Carborendum]

16 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Thus, the desire for a waifu instead of a wife. 

Well, that was a new word for me. Geeez.

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

doubt you, I, or almost anyone else thinks a waifu anime doll is a healthy way to conduct a relationship

Of course it isn’t healthy, but I understand why men do it.

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

True, but with a massive caveat. If you are unpleasant, abrasive, rude and nasty, you have no right to wonder why you are unpopular and lonely. 

For many cases, this reverses cause and effect. I won't exonerate anyone for their own chosen actions, but I recognize that a life of suffering hatred, contempt, and vilification will naturally tend to encourage "unpleasant, abrasive, rude and nasty" behavior.

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

For many cases, this reverses cause and effect. I won't exonerate anyone for their own chosen actions, but I recognize that a life of suffering hatred, contempt, and vilification will naturally tend to encourage "unpleasant, abrasive, rude and nasty" behavior.

A lot of that is in someone's own head. They often make themselves up to be the persecuted martyr to justify their own bad behavior, anger, etc.  

[LDSGator]

I’m 100% convinced that a big reason why women are generally more religious than men is for the reasons I described above. Only a very weak man wants to sit in a church every Sunday and be lectured to about what a scumbag they all are from a leader who lacks the backbone to dare say even the slightest critique towards a woman.   

Edited December 6, 2024 by LDSGator

[NeuroTypical]

36 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Thus, the desire for a waifu instead of a wife. 

Odd, when I grab my phone and say "Siri, call waifu", it calls my wife.  

(My wife is also my dakimakura, but be careful googling that, or you might think less of me for knowing the word.)

[Vort]

12 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Only a very weak man wants to sit in a church every Sunday and be lectured to about what a scumbag they all are from a leader who lacks the backbone to dare say even the slightest critique towards a woman.

I tend to agree with you on this, quite strongly in fact. But I have it on good authority that many LDS General Authorities refuse to publicly criticize women because, in the private (and approximate) words of an emeritus Seventy, "If we took the women to task like we do the men and held them to account for themselves, the women would just quit coming to Church." This is not an easily ignored point. Given the realities of human nature, I'm not sure on the best way to proceed.

[LDSGator]

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Odd, when I grab my phone and say "Siri, call waifu", it calls my wife.  

Melissa is “Mashed Potatoes” on my phone. Even though neither one us like mashed potatoes! 

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

I tend to agree with you on this, quite strongly in fact. But I have it on good authority that many LDS General Authorities refuse to publicly criticize women because, in the private (and approximate) words of an emeritus Seventy, "If we took the women to task like we do the men and held them to account for themselves, the women would just quit coming to Church." This is not an easily ignored point. Given the realities of human nature, I'm not sure on the best way to proceed.

You make an excellent point, and I totally agree there is no good way to proceed. Maybe building men up instead of tearing them down is a good way to start. Something has to change or organized religion might take an uppercut they can’t recover from.   

Edited December 6, 2024 by LDSGator

[NeuroTypical]

On Men vs Women attending church, this started surprising folks recently:

https://www.realclearreligion.org/2024/09/23/in_a_first_young_men_are_more_religious_than_young_women_1060195.html

You can google around for different articles on the phenomenon, and explanations for it.

I'll have to pay attention on Sunday and see if I see more YM or YW.

[Ironhold]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Well, that was a new word for me. Geeez.

Popular gag comedy comic series "Azumanga Daioh" (note: due to some of the content and story arcs, I'd recommend TV-14 as the age rating) had a story arc in which it was revealed that one rather morally challenged character was actually a husband and that his wife was so naively in love with him that she didn't see his worst characteristics. 

When the series was adapted for animation, the writers had the character use the English term "wife" instead of the Japanese term when describing her. Due to how words and syllables are pronounced in Japan, the voice actor pronounced the word "waifu". It became an early meme, and things went from there. 

Edited December 6, 2024 by Ironhold

[Ironhold]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

True, but with a massive caveat. If you are unpleasant, abrasive, rude and nasty, you have no right to wonder why you are unpopular and lonely. 

A lot of dudes who go this route are neurodivergent, dealing with mental health issues, are socially isolated, or otherwise have some strikes against them through no fault of their own and simply can't keep up with trends or get people to look past their issues. 

[zil2]

34 minutes ago, Vort said:

I tend to agree with you on this, quite strongly in fact. But I have it on good authority that many LDS General Authorities refuse to publicly criticize women because, in the private (and approximate) words of an emeritus Seventy, "If we took the women to task like we do the men and held them to account for themselves, the women would just quit coming to Church." This is not an easily ignored point. Given the realities of human nature, I'm not sure on the best way to proceed.

I cannot begin to say how men are, but I can tell you that at least in my generation (I'm in my 50s), women are really hard on themselves and never feel like they are doing / have done enough.

31 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Maybe building men up instead of tearing them down is a good way to start.

Assuming this works with men¹, then yes, absolutely.  It does seem that encouraging further good effort works better than discouraging bad behavior.

¹Not everyone is motivated in the same ways or by the same things, and I have no idea the degree to which this is individual, gender-based, and/or generational.  I only know what does and does not motivate me (and most of the motivational efforts I've observed and been subjected to annoy me more than motivate me).

[Ironhold]

35 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

You make an excellent point, and I totally agree there is no good way to proceed. Maybe building men up instead of tearing them down is a good way to start. Something has to change or organized religion might take an uppercut they can’t recover from.   

It's not just religion, but society as a whole. 

I mean, go to your local Wal-Mart and look at how often you see "The Future Is Female" slapped on everything from notebooks to t-shirts. 

Now put yourself into the shoes of a guy who is already dealing with some issues and who sees messages like that on a constant basis. 

[LDSGator]

5 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

A lot of dudes who go this route are neurodivergent, dealing with mental health issues, are socially isolated, or otherwise have some strikes against them through no fault of their own and simply can't keep up with trends or get people to look past their issues. 

Yup, true. Sad. However I know several guys like that who don’t let their mental illness stop them. They push back and live happy and fulfilled lives. 

 

4 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

It's not just religion, but society as a whole. 

I mean, go to your local Wal-Mart and look at how often you see "The Future Is Female" slapped on everything from notebooks to t-shirts. 

Now put yourself into the shoes of a guy who is already dealing with some issues and who sees messages like that on a constant basis. 

Agree 1000%.