Trump (Or any Subject) Derangement Syndrome

[NeuroTypical]

22 hours ago, Ironhold said:

It wasn't until 2021 / 2022 that anyone realized the Covid vaccines were far less safe than we were assured

20 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

With 5.6 billion doses given worldwide, 10,000 deaths means the vaccine is safer than driving a car. 

3 hours ago, Ironhold said:

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-denmark-public-health-health-453163d8f93618fde90c06d3474921a0

Note the date on this article. 

 

So just to make sure I understand.   You claim people have realized the Covid vaccines were "far less safe than we were assured".   Your source for this claim is the linked apnews article.  Is that correct?  Because if it is, you're not really making your case.  The article is about a cautionary pausing from some countries based on some things that could be issues, maybe for children.    There's a difference between pausing for some people based on caution, and "far less safe".

I mean, yes, the administration and Faucci were messaging "100% and 100% effective" like the liar-liar-pants-on-fire they were.  The massive push to get children vaccinated flew in the face of the data that kids were the least likely to get it or have complications.  So many things were done wrong, some of it had to be intentional.   But your claim was "covid vaccines were far less safe than we were assured", and that's simply not true.  Not by a long shot.  Your AP news article doesn't make the case, and although I've looked for years, no credible source does either.  

 

 

[Ironhold]

4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I do think some hawk “natural cures” and know it’s snake oil. We all have families to feed but those are type of people are lower than common thieves. At least a thief doesn’t tell you he can cure your stage 4 cancer with peach pits. 

In the original 1980s "Watchmen" graphic novel, it's revealed that a company has been selling an "all natural" cancer cure made using apricot pits. Rorschach discovers that one of his long-time villains has been taking it out of desperation after developing cancer, neither man realizing that Ozymandias deliberately exposed several people who had been around Doctor Manhattan with dangerous doses of radiation in order to trick Doctor Manhattan into thinking that he was a walking hazmat site & leaving the Earth. 

So even though you were likely meaning it as a joke, it actually has an odd place in pop culture history.

4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I try not to attribute to malice what I can attribute to ignorance and stupidity. The natural health people mean well but are way off base. 

I think a minority of conspiracy theorists are the same. Mostly well meaning, but that doesn’t mean they are right. 
 
I absolutely think the majority of conspiracy theorists want to show off, pretend they are smarter than everyone else, have a martyr complex, etc   

As part of a tabletop role-playing game campaign I'm creating, I have it that a key NPC has ownership stake in a local TV station that operates in the "adventure city" the party will be based in. 

The station gives a few hours a week to public access programming, and a regular part of this is a conspiracy theorist who gets half an hour every Sunday evening right before the network switches to bartered content from a third-party shop-at-home service ("We'll pay you X per hour that you let us air plus Y percentage of whatever sales we make to addresses that are in your viewing area.")

The twist is that the conspiracy theorist is actually "controlled opposition" in that they are deliberately working with that key NPC to push or bury various stories and theories. 

[Backroads]

4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I do think some hawk “natural cures” and know it’s snake oil. We all have families to feed but those are type of people are lower than common thieves. At least a thief doesn’t tell you he can cure your stage 4 cancer with peach pits. 

I think it may actually go deeper than that. I've seen some scary, scary ideas in the natural health world. There isn't a plan for exactly a master race, but ... it's kind of there. Literal calls to let a good plague wipe out the weak or something.

The snake oil is tricky because it might be more innocent. I have a relative who made his millions in the natural health industry, and it's an industry that is far, far more profitable than vaccines. I like the peach pit cancer cure example you made. It really does boil down to "vaccines can upset my bottom line" so they have to, as a matter of business, discourage vaccines. You get it with the smaller "I'm just trying to feed my family" crowd, yes, but it's a big business. I think a lot of these people aren't maliciously intended, but I also think some of them are caring more about the almighty dollar than public health. They also get the added guise of "but we're natural!" to hide behind.

To edit: I also don't care much for the attitude behind the anti-vax movement. There's a lot of shadow play and manipulation. "Do your own research" drives me crazy. It's a blatant attempt to sow distrust while also being an idiotic declaration that research is bad. Sorry @Ironhold, but I don't care much for the idea of reading an article instead of analyzing the studies they used for the article. 

Science-based studies? Oh, you'll have people who will line you up with studies to read. But the anti-vax is a bizarre attempt to make you doubt your own mind and studies and follow a false prophet. It's been years now, but I'll never forget that incident where a mom group convinced one of their moms to let her kid die instead of using modern medicine and then made it into cover-up.

Edited 12 hours ago by Backroads

[LDSGator]

11 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

In the original 1980s "Watchmen" graphic novel

Never heard of it. Not into comics much. 

11 minutes ago, Backroads said:

think it may actually go deeper than that. I've seen some scary, scary ideas in the natural health world. There isn't a plan for exactly a master race, but ... it's kind of there. Literal calls to let a good plague wipe out the weak or something.

I understand where you are coming from, to some degree. It’s usually white people whining about organic food, talking about natural cures, etc. It’s their way of bragging about how rich they are without actually bragging about how rich they are. 

[Ironhold]

33 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Never heard of it. Not into comics much. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen

Alan Moore wrote it in the 1980s as a deconstruction of various "Golden Age" superheroes. He meant it to show how life would *really* be like if superheroes were real and actively involved in world drama. 

One of the heroes, Ozymandias, gets it in his head that the only way to stop World War III is to trick NATO and the USSR into thinking that there's an even bigger threat they have to unite in order to stop. To this end he uses his vast fortune to trick a group of disaffected, disgruntled, and / or distressed luminaries from the creative arts into believing that they're working on an elaborate alien invasion movie when in reality he's going to destroy New York City and make it look like a disastrous first contact. Problem is, another hero, The Comedian, inadvertently discovers a part of the plan and so Ozymandias decides to silence him. 

...Never mind the fact that The Comedian was a slobbering drunk at this point due to decades of alcoholism and so everyone else would have ignored what he had to say *if* Ozymandias hadn't killed him. Now that he's dead, vigilante hero Rorschach tries his best to convince the other heroes to investigate. Cue Ozymandias having to pop smoke while also pretending to be "helping" the investigation. 

It was as pivotal to the history of comic books as it was massively shocking, but unfortunately far too many comic creators these days got it into their heads that "dark, edgy, and deconstructive" is how all comics are "supposed" to be. 

[LDSGator]

4 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen

Alan Moore wrote it in the 1980s as a deconstruction of various "Golden Age" superheroes. He meant it to show how life would *really* be like if superheroes were real and actively involved in world drama. 

One of the heroes, Ozymandias, gets it in his head that the only way to stop World War III is to trick NATO and the USSR into thinking that there's an even bigger threat they have to unite in order to stop. To this end he uses his vast fortune to trick a group of disaffected, disgruntled, and / or distressed luminaries from the creative arts into believing that they're working on an elaborate alien invasion movie when in reality he's going to destroy New York City and make it look like a disastrous first contact. Problem is, another hero, The Comedian, inadvertently discovers a part of the plan and so Ozymandias decides to silence him. 

...Never mind the fact that The Comedian was a slobbering drunk at this point due to decades of alcoholism and so everyone else would have ignored what he had to say *if* Ozymandias hadn't killed him. Now that he's dead, vigilante hero Rorschach tries his best to convince the other heroes to investigate. Cue Ozymandias having to pop smoke while also pretending to be "helping" the investigation. 

It was as pivotal to the history of comic books as it was massively shocking, but unfortunately far too many comic creators these days got it into their heads that "dark, edgy, and deconstructive" is how all comics are "supposed" to be. 

I was kidding. Lifelong fan. I’ve read Watchman several times, but it was 25 years ago. 

[NeuroTypical]

5 hours ago, mirkwood said:

100% of the hospitalizations from covid in my agency had taken the shot.

Let me repeat that: 100% of the hospitalizations in my agency took the shot. 

Ok.  How do you explain 5.3 billion shots going into ~5 billion different arms across the whole planet, and your bolded observation (which does indeed sound like one could draw a conclusion about things) doesn't seem to have happened anywhere else across the entire human race?  

I mean, I used to regularly go to the covid news links for my county, several states, my country and others, and global data.  Probably at least half of them had some sort of graph or chart comparing outcomes for vaccinated folks vs unvaccinated folks.  And while the shot indeed was not as effective as hoped/claimed, the same story showed up over and over in the data.  You put 1000 vaxxed folks in a room, and 1000 unvaxxed foks in another room and everyone gets covid.  Open the doors and count the dead and hurt, and the unvaxxed folks had more dead, and more hurt.

How come?

Edited 10 hours ago by NeuroTypical

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Ok.  How do you explain 

 

I don't.  I do know that 100% of the hospitalizations that I personally know were covid vaxxed.

 

I guess I'll put that question back to you.

 

How do you explain that?

Edited 8 hours ago by mirkwood

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

How do you explain that?

This would seem to be the most likely explanation: 

 

 

 

Other possible explanations, like global conspiracies involving hundreds or thousands of people colluding to hide the truth, would seem to be less likely.

[mirkwood]

The other problem we run into with the covid conversation is the manipulated statistics from the healthcare workers.  There will never be a way to know how much that influenced the numbers.