Defying Mormon perfectionism

[Misshalfway]

Does anybody struggle with perfectionism inside the church culture?

Anybody confuse perfectionism with church doctrine or perhaps was raised by someone who did?

Any thoughts about the correlation between perfectionism and becoming judgemental???

Or maybe the pressure to be the perfect woman? Or be the perfect family?

Just curious about the experiences of members of the church who perhaps have been immersed in Mormon culture and what kinds of experiences you may have had in this area.

[pushka]

When I considered coming back to the LDS church, one of the things that I, strangely, looked forward to, was being what I referred to as a Stepford Wife!! I guess this was because, when I used to attend the church 30 years ago, the impression I got of RS was that it was all to do with cooking, sewing, knitting, craftwork etc. and that the main duty of an LDS wife was to produce and bring up children. Maybe I thought that I had failed somewhat in the homemaking skills, given that I don't often cook from fresh and I don't knit or sew!!

I think that it is very easy to think that the requirement to aim for perfection is a God Given Commandment of the church, and therefore if you do any less than perfect, you automatically judge yourself and believe that others are judging you?

I have heard gossip since returning to my local Ward, so I suppose the idea of striving not to be judgemental is a very difficult one to follow.

Hope this covers your subject matter somewhat. :)

[Guest tomk]

I think one of the things that happens as you draw closer to Christ is you respond to His invitation to not be such a "perfectionist." Being perfect "in Christ" is not perfectionism. Perfectionism is a tool the devil uses to make us miserable by holding us to a standard we are not capable of maintaining and which has never been asked of us. All that is asked of us is that we are willing to do what Christ asks of us, take His name upon us, and always remember Him. He takes that willingness and blesses it. Perfection "in Him" (through His grace) is our goal, not perfectionism.

That is my take on it.

[Moksha]

Unfortunately the strivings of perfectionism are far from perfect, however I think there is a strong correlation between being overly demanding of yourself and being judgmental of others.

Perfectionism is a form of obsession. When the zealotry it produces is rewarded by the Church or society, the problem increases.

[Maya]

Many thanks toprevious writters ...

I am VERY far from perfect, but I have learned to live with it. No I am not indifferent. I try every day.. and see that not today either was the day to have my home in perfect condition, or my words in perfect order...not talking about my letters... But I know and my HF knows that I do try!":huh:

When my kids finally move out so:

[omega0401]

I think the best advice in this area of perfectionism is to follow what our wonderful prophet Gordon B Hinckley has always told us, "Do the best you can." If we can honestly say we did the best we can then that's great. Don't be concerned with perfection. If we can't say that then at least we're being honest with ourselves and we can do better next time. So...do the best you can.

[Maya]

Sometimes I just wonder :WHY is my best so much less than somany others....

[Moksha]

Sometimes I just wonder :WHY is my best so much less than so many others....

Because it is what is right for you. Rejoice in it and do not worry about comparing yourself with others.

:)

[the Ogre]

If being a fat, bearded, load-mouth is perfection, then I got it down. No more study for me. I'll tell the bishop to stop worrying about me.

Aaron the Ogre

[Alaskagain]

Ogre! Nice to see you!

I came to terms with not being perfect a while back. Sometimes even my very best is way down on the rungs of the perfection ladder. I'm so grateful for our Saviour.

If in trying to be "perfect", or have the "perfect" home and "perfect" family, I am making my family miserable, I am defeating the whole purpose. I go at my own pace, do what I am able, look at each day and what was good and not so good in how I did things, and try for a better tomorrow.

Good topic!

[NateHowe]

Part of the process of constant repentance and improvement is to acknowledge our imperfections. In the Church, as in any organization, some will try to seem like what they are not in order to obtain some social status. However, the most effective leaders I have had in the Church are those who are admittedly imperfect, but striving.

[Misshalfway]

Ever find that the Saints are hard on each other in that striving effort?

Any thoughts on how perfectionism and how we judge one another plays a role in Church social life?

Any thoughts on how socially tolerant the members of the church are?

[NeuroTypical]

Does anybody struggle with perfectionism inside the church culture?

Not since I stopped caring what other people think!

[Guest Malcolm]

I think perfectionism comes from the fringe that lacks insight into the fact that the Savior has asked us to do as He has done. To turn ourselves outward and onto others and be there to rebuild, to uphold, to guide to support, to encourage, to exhort, to share and to serve with our hearts full of charity for those we serve. There is no room there for perfection since we could not do enough of the above as to do it perfectly or the Savior would have come a while back.

All unsolicited and public outward expressions of self-righteousness are nothing but pomp and priestcraft.

"I'll let you boast so that I may understand what you're lacking" My grandmother.

[Misshalfway]

What about a person who tries so hard to do the will of the Lord and is so hard on themselves for falling short or for being human? I don't know if I see that as self-righteousness. Or what about the family who finds themselves going thru difficulty and can't rely on neighbors and friends because of the way they are judged?

I know what we are suppose to feel on the inside. I know what it is suppose to be like. Are you telling me that the church has these issues figured out? Maybe where you live?

Anybody see a difference between Utah and the rest of the Kingdom? I remember some of my roommates at BYU would say that they would hate to be a Utah mormon. Anybody help me understand why one might say that???

[Guest Malcolm]

What about a person who tries so hard to do the will of the Lord and is so hard on themselves for falling short or for being human? I don't know if I see that as self-righteousness. Or what about the family who finds themselves going thru difficulty and can't rely on neighbors and friends because of the way they are judged?

I know what we are suppose to feel on the inside. I know what it is suppose to be like. Are you telling me that the church has these issues figured out? Maybe where you live?

Anybody see a difference between Utah and the rest of the Kingdom? I remember some of my roommates at BYU would say that they would hate to be a Utah mormon. Anybody help me understand why one might say that???

I'm sorry but I do not understand what you mean. I was referring to what the posters before were referring as the "superman/woman syndrome. All the things that some do in order to "appear" perfect, which have nothing to do with a heart-felt desire to serve out of charity but outward showcase and public recognition. Obviously, when that happens the family, the individual or even others sufferer. We have been counseled to care for and attend to our own families first. To limit the "good things" in favor of the "best things."

I have no clue about what being a "Utah Mormon" means since I have never lived in Utah.

I believe that understanding the Gospel and how the Lord administers his Kingdom is key to understanding what the Savior means when He says "be ye therefore perfect..."

1. You desire to give things your best efforts and are satisfied when you do.

2. You know it’s okay if you make a mistake. You move on and see your mistake as an opportunity for growth or learning..

3. You want to do your personal best, and you try not to compare your achievements to those of others. You don’t need to be the best at all things.

4. You can find joy in doing the things you love, and you can get things accomplished.

5. Trying to do your best and perfecting yourself “line upon line” with the Savior’s help is Christ-centered because you need the Atonement.

It may be worthwhile for all to read: “Perfection Pending” by Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (Ensign, Nov. 1995, 86).

I hope the clarification helps.

[Elgama]

I'm too arrogant lol I love myself, my kids are great and my husband is wonderful. But I do suffer at the hands of people at church who expect themselves and everyone else to be perfect. I am not aiming for perfect - I am aiming for good enough, as long as I can look my Saviour in the eye and say I did my best to spare you pain, and I repented of the pain I caused you that for me is enough. When I answer yes to the last question in the Recommend Interview that is what I mean when I say yes, I am very thankful for the Bishop who made me go away and pray about the question, he wouldn't issue a recommend to anyone who couldn't answer that with a strong clear yes and their head held high - when I faltered he sent me away to pray and decide what that question meant to me. I firmly believe that was part of why depression was not a big thing in that ward. Imagine what it is like to walk into the temple and first thought is YES I am worthy to be here.

But Sisters around me are hurtling into depression, trying to have perfect lives, and get frustrated with me when I don't want to - I don't care if my house is a mess (well to a point), I can happily attend church with creased clothes, if my husband has forgotten to pick up a computer desk for sister on his HT list I am not going to hurt my marriage by getting upset about it, I haven't even worn makeup in 6 years (would have been 15 but I got married and wore it then), and that makes me odd at church - which scares people.

-Charley

[Misshalfway]

Yes Elegma. I think you get a little of what I am trying to say. The pressure from others to be or act in very specific ways. I don't want to be perfect. Never have. But I feel the pressure and the rejection when I don't stay in the box. We have what is locally called the "Draper Mom" syndrome. (thirty somethings) The fake nails and perfect hair. The size four and below. The big SUV and the perfectly decorated home. Perfect kids involved in hundreds of activities. Always happy. Always financially secure. (who knows for real) Always up and ready and having fhe and study and service and family vacations. And if one does struggle with depression or hard circumstances, it is always somehow their fault. Or someone has some kind of criticism or subtle shaming response. I feel bad for the smoker and the lesbian or the family with a Gay son. I feel sorry for the people who have trials of a sensitive nature. I think sometimes they are pushed to the fringe of the social acceptance by the main stream. Or the couple having problems. They either become a "project" or the subject of talk. Or what if you are a lifetime member and you suddenly question your testimony or life circumstances push you out of comfort zones and your find your testimony is shaky. Who is there to understand? Sometimes I feel the fear. Don't tell anyone you don't believe!!! Hide that. Too scary. Instead of someone, like a VTer or HTer express understanding and patience and faith filled comments and support. Anybody know what I mean? Not saying it well. I guess I would like to see the Saints raise the bar in terms of these behaviors. Why do we need so badly to be better than others? Why do we need to hide our trials for fear of being seen as "less than"? Why do we need to fake it? Why can't we just walk an honest and real and authentic walk? And then let others do the same. Why is it that we get so fixated in the moment and forget about the process? Our gospel is all about eternal progression but sometimes in the day to day social interactions I wonder at the lack of patience. But I think so many long for acceptance. They long for others support and favor. I think that is what drives the "Draper Mom" syndrome. Because we all know that you prolly won't get supported if you don't follow the flock. And now as I type I am having a Jr. High flashback. Yuck!

Do people outside of Utah see that kind of stuff in the church? Or is that a Utah Mormon thing? I am not saying that it happens all the time in every case. I am just saying that I see it happen enough that I am convinced it is a problem and wanted to open the discussion and see what people think. I also think people don't want to talk about it because identifying it would admit that we are less than perfect.

Sometimes I find it refreshing when I find the rare Latter-day Saint that can talk ... how do I say it...."real". Who can rise above the platitudes the always perfect stories and "right" answers and talk about the realities to the human experience and the realities of the road to Christ. I find that kind of honesty and reality refreshing and truly helpful. Sometimes, I think it was Elphaba, who talked about the "white washed" stories. I sometimes find it so difficult to live up to those stories. Maybe I am too human. Or too flawed. Or too proud. I am sure I am may things. But I would like to live peacefully with all of my "many things" and not feel such pressure to fix myself all the time. I don't like playing games and I don't like pressure to play them. And I don't like losing friends because I think or speak outside of the box. I don't like not telling the truth. I don't like pretending that all is well when it is not. I am not advocating pessimism or negativity. I find real happiness in viewing the whole landscape of life and learning acceptance and balance. I guess I wish I felt more supported in that kind of a view. I have not found many people who can go there with me. Maybe I haven't met them yet.

[crytsprospect]

My experience in church is that it happens everywhere not just Utah but I understand " Utah Morman's" . We have alot of transports moving here from there and all are dear but the Perfect Standard is a bit much for us real folks here. There is one sister in particular who won't even acknowledge me in hall when we pass. I use to really be hurt by it but decided I would be nice even if she couldn't. Isn't being self-rightous being puffed up in your knowledge, position etc. judging others when you have no right to. We are so hard on each other in my eyes and those that have more tend to judge us who don't . I've learned over the years I would never go to church if I let what other people said or thought ( negative wise ) disturb me. We are all at different places and we have to love each other and encourage each other no matter where we are in this journey. Satan constantly trys to breed contention between the saints in so many little ways that we have to fight back with positive purpose , being christ like ( so hard at times ) to others. The only perfect I have in my life is " a perfect brightness of hope"^_^

[skalenfehl]

It's definitely a different world here in Utah. It was a bit of a culture shock for me when I moved here. I think it has to be about what it was like during the golden age/era of the Book of Mormon. I can imagine what it was like in Zarahemla with all the faithful members of the church who attended their meetings, visited and strengthened each other, etc. Then there were some who were born into the families of faithful but didn't agree with the teachings, etc, (four sons of Mosiah, etc), and then of course there were those very familiar with the members of the church but who, themselves were not, but still part of the culture, sharing the same lingo, slang, community interests, etc.

It's even a different world in Provo, Utah or "Happy Valley". I won't even try to explain it. Anyway, here in Utah, regardless of religion there are those snooty/uppity people who look down there noses at you, but there are also many, many very warm, friendly and hospitable folks who greet you on the street and ready to make a friend and strike up a conversation.

Outside of Utah, it's very different. Being LDS definitely sets you apart from everyone else and the differences are very obvious to you and to those who observe you. "Don't smoke? You must be one of them Mormons!"

As for perfectionism...I think I'm a perfectionist, but not because of my faith. I've been an artist and a very discerning person all my life. In construction, when I build a house, every wall has to be perfectly plumb, level and square. I can handle an 1/8" tolerance, which these days is very good. As a finish carpenter all my miters have to be perfect and if they aren't I get out the sandpaper and make that moulding seamless. I do get down on myself when I fall short of where I think I should be in my relationship with my Father in Heaven. But I am thankful for the repentance process and the opportunity to become perfect even as my Father in Heaven is perfect.

[Elgama]

I'm in Scotland - yes it happens here and sometimes I get frustrated being the one who is expected to fit in - why should I - like my Gran used to say I am beautiful, kind and decent, and Jesus loves me, its them that has the problem lol I am shocked how many people are surprised I have a temple recommend (actually just discovered it ran out yesterday and have to wait couple of weeks for our Branch President to come back, but i do usually) or the old woman who was rude to my husband several times at the temple because he had long hair and beard at the time (I just told her his faults were almost as obvious as her own, and personally I liked the Jesus look), my husband is one of the most Christlike human beings I know. I was called an apostate as a Young Woman because I wore my Uncles old fishing jumper and a mans overcoat (grunge was the fashion and it was comfy and warm), apparently it made me a cross dresser. Do they still have that daft Young Women lesson which says if you don't follow fashions, wear makeup and shave your legs you won't get a date? Everyone knows its the most happy and confident woman in the room that is the most sexy not the one that shaves her legs.

Yet on paper except for some issues with a porn addiction (never indulge but its there) - I am sealed in the temple to my RM, have my temple recommend, and 2 kids, trying for another one - I am very much a Latter Day Saint my faith has been a bit flat lately though I don't like being one, just wish it wasn't true lol

-Charley

[Guest Malcolm]

I'm in Scotland - yes it happens here and sometimes I get frustrated being the one who is expected to fit in - why should I - like my Gran used to say I am beautiful, kind and decent, and Jesus loves me, its them that has the problem lol I am shocked how many people are surprised I have a temple recommend (actually just discovered it ran out yesterday and have to wait couple of weeks for our Branch President to come back, but i do usually) or the old woman who was rude to my husband several times at the temple because he had long hair and beard at the time (I just told her his faults were almost as obvious as her own, and personally I liked the Jesus look), my husband is one of the most Christlike human beings I know. I was called an apostate as a Young Woman because I wore my Uncles old fishing jumper and a mans overcoat (grunge was the fashion and it was comfy and warm), apparently it made me a cross dresser. Do they still have that daft Young Women lesson which says if you don't follow fashions, wear makeup and shave your legs you won't get a date? Everyone knows its the most happy and confident woman in the room that is the most sexy not the one that shaves her legs.

Yet on paper except for some issues with a porn addiction (never indulge but its there) - I am sealed in the temple to my RM, have my temple recommend, and 2 kids, trying for another one - I am very much a Latter Day Saint my faith has been a bit flat lately though I don't like being one, just wish it wasn't true lol

-Charley

If you have an addiction to porn (mild as you put it) I suggest you talk to your Bishop asap. I also would suggest, this with great trepidation and sorrow, but you are not worthy to enter the Temple of the Lord. You should not waste any time and discuss these issues with your Bishop. you may not believe it but you are in great danger.

[Elgama]

If you have an addiction to porn (mild as you put it) I suggest you talk to your Bishop asap. I also would suggest, this with great trepidation and sorrow, but you are not worthy to enter the Temple of the Lord. You should not waste any time and discuss these issues with your Bishop. you may not believe it but you are in great danger.

Malcolm I have not viewed any pornography in many years, my time of giving in to the addiction was before my baptism plus a little when my husband was depressed, (lasted about 3 or 4 days when I took the matter to my husband), and I NEVER STATED IT WAS MILD, as a teen there was nothing MILD about it, its long since been dealt with by my presiding authorities - however the addiction like with an alcoholic is always there, I will always be tempted, the moment I say I am not addicted then I am in great danger.

I am more than in a position to say YES with my head held high when my Branch President and Stake President ask me if I am worthy to enter the temple, part of the reason I delayed the renewal of my recommend was my faith was a bit flat and I did not feel able to hold my head up high and say YES to that question - I am sorry if my post was misleading, but I would NEVER defile the temple, its too sacred for that,

-Charley

[Iggy]

If you have an addiction to porn (mild as you put it) I suggest you talk to your Bishop asap. I also would suggest, this with great trepidation and sorrow, but you are not worthy to enter the Temple of the Lord. You should not waste any time and discuss these issues with your Bishop. you may not believe it but you are in great danger.

Malcolm, boy did you misread her post.

[kona0197]

If you have an addiction to porn (mild as you put it) I suggest you talk to your Bishop asap. I also would suggest, this with great trepidation and sorrow, but you are not worthy to enter the Temple of the Lord. You should not waste any time and discuss these issues with your Bishop. you may not believe it but you are in great danger.

I don't think it's your place to judge others...

Speaking of "Mormon Perfectionism" I see a few members in this forum suffer from that.