Lovely LDS post on X

[mikbone]

[laronius]

How I Escaped???

I wonder if these people ever really stop to consider every unique doctrine of our church that they must turn their back on in the process of "escaping." If the promises of the gospel aren't true, what in the world do they think they'll find that will bring contentment?

[zil2]

15 minutes ago, laronius said:

If the promises of the gospel aren't true, what in the world do they think they'll find that will bring contentment?

Sex, drugs, and rock & roll?

ETA: And in the case of the dude in the post, earrings, a necklace, and a new hairdo?

Edited Friday at 02:07 AM by zil2

[Phoenix_person]

1 hour ago, laronius said:

I wonder if these people ever really stop to consider every unique doctrine of our church that they must turn their back on in the process of "escaping."

Yes. It's frightening trying to rebuild a worldview from scratch, but it's preferable to trying to force yourself to follow a belief system that you don't actually believe in. I personally don't believe that an exit from the church requires a video manifesto, but people find closure in different ways. The LDS Church is extremely social and communal, much more so than most other churches. That's where the "escape" mindset comes from. You're not just leaving a religion, you're leaving an entire community. And again, it's still preferable to going through life faking it.

1 hour ago, laronius said:

If the promises of the gospel aren't true, what in the world do they think they'll find that will bring contentment?

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

- Douglas Adams

No church or religion has a monopoly on happiness, not even yours. If LDS dogma brings meaning to your life, cool. Billions of people are doing just fine without it. 

[NeuroTypical]

12 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Yes. It's frightening trying to rebuild a worldview from scratch, but it's preferable to trying to force yourself to follow a belief system that you don't actually believe in.

I agree it can be. Switching religions or political affiliations - that sort of thing can get people kicked out of families and end relationships. Paths of spiritual or moral growth can be smooth or bumpy, or even traumatic. 

I was born into a church I did not believe in, and stopped going as soon as I could get away with it.  It seemed at the time to be an act of being honest with myself and those around me.  Seeking and finding a testimony in my 20's brought with it this sort of "calm fearful panic", as it dawned on me that all that stuff I had walked away from, I must now intentionally walk towards.  There were quite a number of times when I was totally out of my element, walking towards some new experience full of fear, sometimes even experiencing a pounding heart and close to hyperventilating.  Heading to the bishop's office, telling friends and relatives, getting called to teach my first Sunday school lesson, getting asked to give my first blessing.  Near panic, with the only thing on my side was this sense of "well, either the church is true or it isn't, either God is on my side or He isn't - I guess I'm about to find out one way or the other".  

My 180 on politics, however, was a mostly uneventful no-brainer.  Discovering that there were better things to believe and better worldviews to hold than what my agnostic union democrat upbringing had taught me, really didn't involve any fear.  I think a lot of that was because of the high caliber character of my father.  Although he was ticked off to no end that, from his perspective, the smarter I got at college the dumber I got about things, he didn't seem to take it personally like close family often does.   The beer-drinking gambling foul-mouthed WWII sergeant who mocked religion and anyone to the right of him politically - raised what turned out to be a good little conservative mormon boy.  I never got the sense that he was disappointed in me, even though he had to have been at times.  

 

Fun stuff.

 

 

[HaggisShuu]

The cult accusations always get under my skin. Forgive me Americans, but I'm wondering if Church culture in the land of the free 🦅🇺🇸🦅 can at times be problematic. Because all of these "I escaped a CULT" videos tend to be from America, and the online discourse on whether or not the church is a cult, appears to be discussed between Americans. 
 

In my experience the Church is anything but a cult. My brother in law is homosexual, and inactive. He is loved and respected by his family and not excluded by any measure. On the odd occasion he comes to church to support family by listening to a talk or to witness a calling members of the ward greet him and ask how he is. He was the best man at my wedding. Some cult if you ask me. 
 

I think at worst, the church is a very conservative community with some very unorthodox beliefs when compared to the mainstream, but cult? Sounds like click bait. 

[laronius]

21 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Yes. It's frightening trying to rebuild a worldview from scratch, but it's preferable to trying to force yourself to follow a belief system that you don't actually believe in. I personally don't believe that an exit from the church requires a video manifesto, but people find closure in different ways. The LDS Church is extremely social and communal, much more so than most other churches. That's where the "escape" mindset comes from. You're not just leaving a religion, you're leaving an entire community. And again, it's still preferable to going through life faking it.

A sizeable percentage of those on the membership rolls of our church are not active. They didn't have to "escape" they simply stopped coming. I agree that leaving behind the cultural aspect of the Church requires significant adjustment but this video is not about closure. He is openly engaging our church but now as an antagonist. This is not escaping but attacking.

21 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

 

No church or religion has a monopoly on happiness, not even yours. If LDS dogma brings meaning to your life, cool. Billions of people are doing just fine without it. 

Obedience to God's laws is the only thing that brings lasting joy. So to the extent that anyone obeys God's laws they can receive that joy in proportion. Our Church's mission is to teach a fullness of God's laws so people can receive a fullness of joy, if they so choose it. It's up to them. But we seek for those who are not content being just fine. 

[mikbone]

37 minutes ago, laronius said:

I agree that leaving behind the cultural aspect of the Church requires significant adjustment but this video is not about closure. He is openly engaging our church but now as an antagonist. This is not escaping but attacking.

I don’t really have an allegiance to the cultural aspect of the Church.  Some of my family’s best church memories were during COVID when we had Sacrament meetings in our home.  

And I didn’t spend a second watching this boy’s hour long declaration of weakness.  Everything I needed to know came from the title and screen shot.

Jesus Christ guides this Church.  Not man.  

“choose you this day whom ye will serve⁠; … but as for me and my house⁠, we will serve the Lord⁠.”

[Carborendum]

On 6/19/2025 at 10:00 PM, Phoenix_person said:

... but people find closure in different ways.

I never really understood this concept.  That is to say, I know what the technical definition of closure is:

Quote

the human desire for finality and certainty, particularly in ambiguous or painful situations stemming from a motivation to resolve uncertainty, reduce anxiety, and feel a sense of completion.

But the idea that we can find certainty in life (much less the spiritual realm) is just not realistic especially in highly esoteric subjects.

We can find closure in what we know with the five senses.  But "belief"?  If anyone claims that there is no other worldly sense, then how can we know that it is or is not?  It's a circular self-defeating view.  All we can do is -- express doubt.  There is no certainty because you can't prove a negative.  At best, one can be agnostic.  Yet all too many atheists will mock those who believe.  For all they know, the theists could be correct.

Similarly, most other belief systems end up being circular.  The Bible tells us there is a God so, we know He exists.  We know the Bible is true because it says it is the word of God.

The one major difference in epistemology that the Restored Gospel offers is personal experience via the Holy Ghost.  My x-mo friend was completely honest about this.  He left because after being raised in the Church and giving it a good chance, he realized that he had never felt the Spirit.  That's why he left. 

Assuming that is true (I have no reason to doubt his own words about his own experience) I don't blame him.  Really living this religion requires a lot.  And if you have no certainty after many years of giving it a good try... How can you justify the effort to stay?

Atheists are perfectly welcome do disagree with others' belief systems.  But to claim that they have either moral or intellectual authority over theists seemingly displays a lack of self-awareness.