Nephites lived here in the US?!?! Possibly!

[Teancum18]

Some dude did a video on all the evidences he believed indicated that the majority of the setting in the Book of Mormon took place from Michigan to Louisiana. My buddy is sending me the video, but everything I have heard about, I accept.

Obviously, he is not saying it has been revealed to him. This guy is merely expressing his opinion based on when he interprets from the evidence. I hate to say it, but I have never digested very well the notion that the BOM took place in South America. The U.S. makes much more sense to me!! And for lots of reasons!

Just thought I'd get the wheels turning.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Some dude did a video on all the evidences he believed indicated that the majority of the setting in the Book of Mormon took place from Michigan to Louisiana. My buddy is sending me the video, but everything I have heard about, I accept.

Obviously, he is not saying it has been revealed to him. This guy is merely expressing his opinion based on when he interprets from the evidence. I hate to say it, but I have never digested very well the notion that the BOM took place in South America. The U.S. makes much more sense to me!! And for lots of reasons!

Just thought I'd get the wheels turning.

I agree...

The Central American model has one big, big problem, Cumorah...there would need to be two Cumorah's for it to be feasable, and the Church has stated without ambiguity that the Cumorah in the BofM is the Cumorah in Upstate NY...that's a major problem for the Central American theory...

[WillowTheWhisp]

Well Moroni had to have been where he buried the plates that's for sure.

[SundaeSarah]

I went to a lecture and bought the books possibly by this same man. I leant the books out and never got them back. But they were very interesting and the physical evidence he reports is very convincing. I believe that they did live here too.

[Over43]

I have yet to learn the never lend out books axiom. They don't come back. About a decade ago I read a book by a fellow Sacramentan (at the time) who used the Great Lakes region/Upstate New York as his model for Nephite lands. He made a very strong case for this. Hugh Nibley stated in his lectures that the 5 Nations of the Iriquois were physiologically different than other "natives", larger, heavier boned etc. He believed they were the last of the Jaredite lineage.

This is very interesting historical, archeological and anthropoligical ideas that I would like to see continued.

O43

[Hemidakota]

You will find greater evidence of the people of Adam [wicked generation that are awaiting Second Morning Resurrection] and people of Jared also...just look at the size of the skeletons found among the several Indian burial Mounds.

You will even find odd skeletons of Wooly Mammoths in Florida.

[tiancum]

I was thinking, the whole face of the land was changed...greatly, when the savior came.

The narrow neck of land could have come up from the Yucatan up through florida. parts of western Mexico, suggest that they were under the sea.

I think we greatly underestimate the technology too. When a people flourishes and is following the gospel for the most part, they advance technologically very quickly. I think, many times, we are reinventing the wheel.

I doesnt matter that much to me. where it all happened. The prophets have said where it happened round about. thats good enougth for me

[Hemidakota]

You can start at the highway that cut across the Yucatan, which was not there prior to Christ death. Anything east of that highway is dated after the Savior resurrection. There even parts of the Caribbean coast line and even parts of California changed during that timeframe.

[Misshalfway]

This is not a big thing, but it made me stop and wonder. In Alma it refers to cities being created with large heaps of earth around the city and then timbers around the top and mote on the inside. In Ohio are the ruins of the Mound builders Indians. They put giant mounds of earth around their cities. They now have golf courses running thru the mounds. They also used the mounds to connect the different cities. One mound builder site actually had a mote on the inside of the mounds. Sounds like BofM stuff to me.

[Misshalfway]

Well Moroni had to have been where he buried the plates that's for sure.

And the last battle took place near this location, did it not.

[Hemidakota]

This is not a big thing, but it made me stop and wonder. In Alma it refers to cities being created with large heaps of earth around the city and then timbers around the top and mote on the inside. In Ohio are the ruins of the Mound builders Indians. They put giant mounds of earth around their cities. They now have golf courses running thru the mounds. They also used the mounds to connect the different cities. One mound builder site actually had a mote on the inside of the mounds. Sounds like BofM stuff to me.

There a few citites in the Yucatan area that have same configuration.

[skalenfehl]

I have studied this a lot and learned about how spread out the people of the Book of Mormon were, including the Jaredites. I have no problem believing that they were spread throughout So. America and throughout what is currently the United States.

I read an account of Joseph Smith (or an acquaintance) once discovering the grave site where a man had long since been buried. Joseph described him and said that the man had lived among the Nephites/Lamanites. If I remember correctly he was a Nephite. As mentioned above, the land was greatly changed at Christ's resurrection. There's no reason to believe the Lamanites were not spread out across the U.S. (which could easily be described as a land of many waters) especially considering how long and far Moroni traveled alone before finally depositing the record on a hill.

It's easy enough for me to believe this as it is for the Lord to physically move the hill Cumorah. Remember there are many wagon loads of plates inside the hill. I'm sure Moroni wasn't traveling the country with wagons filled with gold plates in tow, especially with a bunch of Lamanites looking to kill him in the end.

Cumorah's Cave - Maxwell Institute JBMS

[Moksha]

You could always use this Vern Holley map as a reference point.

[Jenamarie]

You could always use this Vern Holley map as a reference point.

Huh... Very intriging. It would certainly require the reworking of some church art, if this ends up being true.

[Vanhin]

Huh... Very intriging. It would certainly require the reworking of some church art, if this ends up being true.

Yep. It can get pretty cold in the winter up there while running around with shorn heads and nothing but a "skin which was girded about their loins". A thousand years is a long time. Look how quickly we spread throughout the continent in just a couple hundred years.

I tend to agree with a much larger setting, but I like some of the ideas from this smaller scale setting in Central America.

Vanhin

[Vanhin]

And my picture is bigger.

Vanhin

[poulsenll]

You could always use this Vern Holley map as a reference point.

Doesn't anybody bother to read the Book of Mormon? This map shows Zarahemla to be just south of the East Sea. A quick look at Google Earth will show the New York Hill Cumorah to be about 15 miles to the east from where he locates Zarahemla. The Book of Mormon clearly places the Hill Cumorah in the Land Northward which according to this map would be north of the Narrow neck and thus north of the Great Lakes rather than south.

If you really want to understand the geography of the Book of Mormon, list and correlate the over 500 geographical citations in the text and then figure out what fits using Google Maps. If you are unwilling to put in the effort to do so then read the works of someone who has done so such as John Sorenson instead of accepting someones half hearted attempt to fit it into the NY area.

Larry P

[skalenfehl]

Doesn't anybody bother to read the Book of Mormon? This map shows Zarahemla to be just south of the East Sea. A quick look at Google Earth will show the New York Hill Cumorah to be about 15 miles to the east from where he locates Zarahemla. The Book of Mormon clearly places the Hill Cumorah in the Land Northward which according to this map would be north of the Narrow neck and thus north of the Great Lakes rather than south.

The Lord can split the Red Sea and flood the entire earth, right? He can move land masses and bury cities, right? I still maintain that it's entirely possible for the Lord to "move" the cave/hill of Cumorah (also hill Ramah to Jaredites) to house the wagon loads of gold plates inside. I seriously doubt that the Nephite prophets passed them all down or that Moroni lugged them all over the continent. He only deposited the abridged set on the hill for Joseph to find.

Cumorah's Cave - Maxwell Institute JBMS

I'd have no problem believing that this is how the map looked back then but not after Christ's crucifixion:

3 Ne. 8: 5-18

5 And it came to pass in the *thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land.

6 And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder.

7 And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land.

8 And the city of Zarahemla did take fire.

9 And the city of Moroni did sink into the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof were drowned.

10 And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain.

11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.

12 But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth;

13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.

14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate.

15 And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.

16 And there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away.

17 And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth.

18 And behold, the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth, insomuch that they were found in broken fragments, and in seams and in cracks, upon all the face of the land.

I need to find that reference where Joseph Smith found the Nephite grave in North America, up east somewhere. Might be in his discourses. I also believe as Vanhin that the Nephites/Lamanites had an entire millennium to populate North America where we've only taken a couple centuries.

Edit: Found it!

Zelph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is the Significance of Zelph in the Study of Book of Mormon Geography? - Maxwell Institute JBMS

and here's some cool reading:

Hill Cumorah Research - Where is Cumorah?

[Traveler]

For what ever reason, speculation is one of the favorite pastimes of the Latter-Day Saints. I personally have no idea where the land of the Book of Mormon is. Everything I have studied has something that does not fit. However, I believe that someday somebody is going to find something that without question belonged to the Nephits. But it has not happened so I admit. I do not know where to even look – I will leave that to others.

The Traveler

[poulsenll]

The Lord can split the Red Sea and flood the entire earth, right? He can move land masses and bury cities, right? I still maintain that it's entirely possible for the Lord to "move" the cave/hill of Cumorah (also hill Ramah to Jaredites) to house the wagon loads of gold plates inside. I seriously doubt that the Nephite prophets passed them all down or that Moroni lugged them all over the continent. He only deposited the abridged set on the hill for Joseph to find.

Cumorah's Cave - Maxwell Institute JBMS

I'd have no problem believing that this is how the map looked back then but not after Christ's crucifixion:

3 Ne. 8: 5-18

5 And it came to pass in the *thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land.

6 And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder.

7 And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land.

8 And the city of Zarahemla did take fire.

9 And the city of Moroni did sink into the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof were drowned.

10 And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain.

11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.

12 But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth;

13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.

14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate.

15 And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.

16 And there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away.

17 And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth.

18 And behold, the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth, insomuch that they were found in broken fragments, and in seams and in cracks, upon all the face of the land.

I need to find that reference where Joseph Smith found the Nephite grave in North America, up east somewhere. Might be in his discourses. I also believe as Vanhin that the Nephites/Lamanites had an entire millennium to populate North America where we've only taken a couple centuries.

Edit: Found it!

Zelph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is the Significance of Zelph in the Study of Book of Mormon Geography? - Maxwell Institute JBMS

and here's some cool reading:

Hill Cumorah Research - Where is Cumorah?

Unfortunately for your thesis, Mormon wrote his abridgement 300+ years after the destruction at the time of Christ's death. He mentions that Zarahemla was rebuilt and then describes his moving the Nephites to the land of Cumorah after he had made a treaty with the Lamanites ceding everything south of the narrow neck to the Lamanites. No matter what happened at the death of Christ, 300 years later there was still a Zarahemla in its original location and a narrow neck with the land of Cumorah to the north of it.

Moroni never had any more records than those few records given to him by his father prior to the final battle. The rest were buried in the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah. The location of the New York Hill Cumorah does not fit the description of its location found in the text of the Book of Mormon.

If we accept Joseph Smith as a Prophet then we must accept the Book of Mormon as a translation of an ancient record and that its content accurately describes the lands and relationships between geographic features. Any other proposal, in my opinion, denies the validity of Joseph Smith as a prophet.

Larry P

[Alaskagain]

Years ago, I heard unsubstantiated rumors of an area of extremely high numbers of human bones being found during excavation for an early highway project in New York State. I never found any evidence; if so, the remains were not reported as a historical find, presumably as the discovery probably would have put a stop to the road construction. The general impression I got was that this took place in the 1920's or 1930's, and possibly involved WPA works during the Great Depression. Probably urban or church legend, but I thought I would just throw it into the mix.

[jadams_4040]

I agree...

The Central American model has one big, big problem, Cumorah...there would need to be two Cumorah's for it to be feasable, and the Church has stated without ambiguity that the Cumorah in the BofM is the Cumorah in Upstate NY...that's a major problem for the Central American theory...

I have not heard that it is totally certain the one in N.Y? I have heard a lot of members say this, but not the church.:)

[Moksha]

The Lord can split the Red Sea and flood the entire earth, right? He can move land masses and bury cities, right? I still maintain that it's entirely possible for the Lord to "move" the cave/hill of Cumorah (also hill Ramah to Jaredites) to house the wagon loads of gold plates inside.

Also there is the possibility of a time-space portal. This ingenious method would be much simpler than moving such a tremendous object as the Hill Cumorah, not to mention changing its strata to match the surrounding geophysical landscape.

Of course, its being in New York all along is a much less exciting speculation.

[Hemidakota]

The Lord can split the Red Sea and flood the entire earth, right? He can move land masses and bury cities, right? I still maintain that it's entirely possible for the Lord to "move" the cave/hill of Cumorah (also hill Ramah to Jaredites) to house the wagon loads of gold plates inside. I seriously doubt that the Nephite prophets passed them all down or that Moroni lugged them all over the continent. He only deposited the abridged set on the hill for Joseph to find.

Cumorah's Cave - Maxwell Institute JBMS

I'd have no problem believing that this is how the map looked back then but not after Christ's crucifixion:

3 Ne. 8: 5-18

5 And it came to pass in the *thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land.

6 And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder.

7 And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land.

8 And the city of Zarahemla did take fire.

9 And the city of Moroni did sink into the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof were drowned.

10 And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain.

11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.

12 But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth;

13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.

14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate.

15 And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.

16 And there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away.

17 And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth.

18 And behold, the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth, insomuch that they were found in broken fragments, and in seams and in cracks, upon all the face of the land.

I need to find that reference where Joseph Smith found the Nephite grave in North America, up east somewhere. Might be in his discourses. I also believe as Vanhin that the Nephites/Lamanites had an entire millennium to populate North America where we've only taken a couple centuries.

Edit: Found it!

Zelph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is the Significance of Zelph in the Study of Book of Mormon Geography? - Maxwell Institute JBMS

and here's some cool reading:

Hill Cumorah Research - Where is Cumorah?

Zelph was a Lamanite.

[Hemidakota]

Also there is the possibility of a time-space portal. This ingenious method would be much simpler than moving such a tremendous object as the Hill Cumorah, not to mention changing its strata to match the surrounding geophysical landscape.

Of course, its being in New York all along is a much less exciting speculation.

As Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey were caught up in a vision of the cave, which is not part of the current hill down from Joseph farm.

The true hill where the rest of the plates are still located somewhere in down south.

However, the USAF have a cloak device....