Hemidakota

I totally agree with Nancy with recalls and the usage of the Dollar Tree or 99 cent store. These products are mostly made in third world nations where some do cut corner has we already have seen lately in the news. Just be careful...

Yes but no with spirit children.

Other notes: James R. Moss spoke about ‘Church and State’, which is part of the D&C 134: “As Latter-day Saints, "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." Further, "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" (Articles of Faith, 11 and 12). These two fundamental beliefs—freedom of worship, and support of secular government—are basic to our understanding of the gospel. Yet historically the relationship between church and state has been one of tension and great difficulty, both in America and throughout the world. Section 134 of the Doctrine and Covenants is a declaration on "government and laws in general" adopted by the Church 17 August 1835, "that our belief with regard to earthly governments and laws in general may not be misinterpreted nor misunderstood." The document was authored by Oliver Cowdery. Although not originally received as a revelation, it has since been accepted and sustained as scripture and therefore claims the same authority and power as other sections in the Doctrine and Covenants. Section 134 may conveniently be divided into the following: vv. 1, 3, 5-6, 8: Support of secular government; vv. 2, 5, 11: Support of inherent rights and individual freedoms; vv. 4, 7, 10, 12: Support of religious freedom; v. 9: Support of separation of church and state. The section strikes a reasoned, careful, and inspired balance between the concerns of organized society and individuals, between church and state, and between freedom and appropriate social restraints. As Latter-day Saints, we support the concept that secular governments are appropriate and legitimate forms of social organization here on earth, and that we should honor and obey the laws that come from them to govern us when they conform with gospel principles. President David 0. McKay taught, "The three significant words used in the 12th Article of Faith express the proper attitude of the membership of the Church toward law. These words are—obey, honor, and sustain. . . . We obey law from a sense of right. We honor law because of its necessity and strength to society. We sustain law by keeping it in good repute." This same attitude was expressed earlier in this dispensation by Brigham Young when he wrote to the Saints in the British Isles: "Sustain the government of the nation wherever you are, and speak well of it, for this is right, and the government has a right to expect it of you so long as that government sustains you in your civil and religious liberty, in those rights which inherently belong to every person born on the earth." The rule of law among men, rather than personal rule, is also supported by section 134. Joseph Smith taught that law is good and from God, and that we should use it in society: "If, then, we admit that God is the source of all wisdom and understanding, we must admit that by His direct inspiration He has taught man that law is necessary in order to govern and regulate His own immediate interest and welfare; for this reason, that law is beneficial to promote peace and happiness among men. And as before remarked, God is the source from whence proceeds all good; and if man is benefitted by law, then certainly law is good; and if law is good, then law, or the principle of it eminated from God; for God is the source of all good; consequently, then, he was the first Author of law, or the principle of it, to mankind." Section 134 teaches, however, that there is a limit to the allegiance owed secular governments. God holds governments accountable for making and administering laws "for the good and safety of society" (D&C 134:1). Governments are to frame laws that "secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life" (D&C 134:2). Governmental officers are to enforce and administer laws "in equity and justice" (D&C 134:3). Governments are to protect individuals "in their inherent and inalienable rights" and are to hold "sacred the freedom of conscience" (D&C 134:5). Governments are therefore to use their power and authority not to coerce individuals but to support them in their divine, inherent individual rights. President Joseph F. Smith taught that as long as governments serve their citizens in righteousness, those citizens should support their government: The law of the land, which all have no need to break, is that law which is the constitutional law of the land, and that is as God himself has defined it. . . . Now it seems to me that this makes this matter so clear that it is not possible for any man who professes to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to make any mistake, or to be in doubt as to the course he should pursue under the command of God in relation to the observance of the laws of the land. . . . The Lord Almighty requires this people to observe the laws of the land, to be subject to "the powers that be," so far as they abide by the fundamental principles of good government, but He will hold them responsible if they will pass unconstitutional measures and frame unjust and proscriptive laws. . . . If lawmakers have a mind to violate their oath, break their covenants and their faith with the people, and depart from the provisions of the Constitution, where is the law, human or divine, which binds me, as an individual, to outwardly and openly proclaim my acceptance of their acts? (Studies in Scripture, Vol. 1: The Doctrine and Covenants by Robert L. Millet, Kent P. Jackson p.527-529)”

August 17, 1835— Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith received D&C 134, a revelation and declaration of belief regarding governments and laws in general. (History of the Church, 2:247–49) Place: Kirtland, Geauga County, Ohio. PublicationSection 134 was first published in the Messenger and Advocate (August 1835) and was included as section 102 in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants. Historical Setting: On 17 August 1835 an important Church conference was convened in Kirtland for the purpose of examining and approving a compilation of revelations ready for printing. This compilation, called "Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints," was prepared by a committee consisting of Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, and Frederick G. Williams. At the close of the meeting, after all those present had examined the revelations and voted to approve them, Oliver Cowdery stood and "read an instrument containing certain principles or items upon law in general & church governments." After he had read the document, the entire congregation unanimously voted that it be accepted and included with the revelations. Although Joseph Smith and Frederick G. Williams were on a mission to Michigan when the above meeting was held, the Prophet approved of section 134 and declared the statement to be "the belief of the Church" on principles of law and government. The authorship of section 134 traditionally has been attributed to Oliver Cowdery. J. Rueben Clark - "At a general assembly held in Kirtland on August 16, 1835, the Saints adopted a series of statements regarding human government. [section 134.] They are wise and as far-reaching as the Articles of Faith themselves. . . . They were given after the mobbings, plunderings, the assassinations of and part of our experiences in Missouri. They were uttered by a people, who, judged by human standards, had every reason to feel that their government had failed, and that they might not hopefully and successfully look thereto for their protection." (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., CR, April 1935, p. 90) Joseph Smith - A general assembly of the Church of Latter-day Saints was held at Kirtland on the 17th of August, 1835, to take into consideration the labors of a committee appointed by a general assembly of the Church on the 24th of September, 1834, for the purpose of arranging the items of the doctrine of Jesus Christ for the government of the Church. The names of the committee were: Joseph Smith, Jun., Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery, and Frederick G. Williams, who, having finished said book according to the instructions given them, deem it necessary to call a general assembly of the Church to see whether the book be approved or not by the authorities of the Church: that it may, if approved, become a law and a rule of faith and practice to the Church. Wherefore, Oliver Cowdery and Sidney Rigdon, members of the First Presidency, (Presidents Joseph Smith, Jun., and Frederick G. Williams being absent on a visit to the Saints in Michigan,) Appointed Thomas Burdick, Warren Parrish, and Sylvester Smith clerks, and proceeded to organize the whole assembly . . . "President Oliver Cowdery then read the following article on 'Governments and Laws in General,' which was accepted and adopted and ordered to be printed in said book, by a unanimous vote: [beginning of article.] 'That our belief with regard to earthly governments and laws in general may not be misinterpreted nor misunderstood, we have thought proper to present, at the close of this volume, our opinion concerning the same.' [section 134, follows.]" (Joseph Smith, HC 2:243, p.247) Background Narration: Joseph Fielding Smith A Declaration of Belief. At a conference of the Church held in Kirtland, Ohio, August 17, 1835, the Doctrine and Covenants was presented to the assembled conference for their acceptance or rejection. After the brethren there assembled had carefully and studiously considered the matter, the revelations which had been previously selected by the Prophet Joseph Smith were accepted as the word of the Lord by the unanimous vote of the conference, and were ordered printed. On the occasion of this conference, Joseph Smith the Prophet and his second counselor, Frederick G. Williams, were not present. They were on a brief mission to the Saints in Michigan, and because of this were not familiar with all the proceedings of this conference. After the conference had accepted the revelations, an article on marriage, which had been written by Oliver Cowdery, was read by Elder William W. Phelps and was ordered printed in the book with the revelations. When this action had been taken, Oliver Cowdery arose and read another article, also written by himself, on "Governments and Laws in General." This article the conference also ordered printed in the book of Doctrine and Covenants. Unfortunately, a great many people, because these articles appeared in the Doctrine and Covenants, readily concluded that they had come through the Prophet Joseph Smith, and hence were to be received on a par with the other parts of the book of revelations. Because of this misinformation articles have been published from time to time declaring that these words on Government and Laws have come to us with the force of revelation having been from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. This article and the one on "Marriage" were not considered as revelations by the conference, but were published as an expression of belief of the members of the Church at that time. The article on Governments and Laws has appeared in each edition of the Doctrine and Covenants since 1835, and has been accepted, as the preamble of the article states, as a declaration of belief of the Latter-day Saints. . . . (The Progress of Man, pp. 367-368) Richard C. Cowan This statement, written by Oliver Cowdery on behalf of the First Presidency, was adopted at the same conference which approved the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants for publication. In the light of recent persecution and the apparent ineffectiveness of civil government in protecting the Saints, the brethren felt the need for clarifying the Church's stand. Responsibility to Obey the Law. The twelfth Article of Faith states: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." This blanket statement is qualified somewhat in two Doctrine and Covenants passages. D&C 134, verse 5, states that the Saints are "bound to sustain and uphold" their "respective governments Â… while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments." D&C 98, verse 5, requires not only that the law support basic rights and privileges but that it must also be Constitutional. These conditions make the Saints' obligation to obey and sustain the law of the land more reasonable. Church and State. Both civil governments and religion were instituted by God for the good of mankind. (See verses 1 and 4.) Yet, according to verse 9, one should not unduly dominate the other. Still there is not total separation, because religion may appeal to the state for protection (verse 11) and must also seek and uphold wise and good men in government (see D&C 98:10). On the other hand, the state may not interfere with religious beliefs unless they prompt practices which infringe on the rights of others or result in crime. (See verse 4.) The United States Constitution includes three provisions regarding religion: 1. Congress (the national government) cannot establish an official state church. 2. Congress cannot infringe upon freedom of worship. 3. There can be no religious qualifications or test for holding public office. (Doctrine and Covenants, Our Modern Scripture, by Richard O. Cowan, p.204-205) Section Header Notes: A declaration of belief regarding governments and laws in general, adopted by unanimous vote at a general assembly of the Church held at Kirtland, Ohio, 17 August 1835 (see History of the Church, 2:247–49). The occasion was a meeting of Church leaders, brought together to consider the proposed contents of the first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants. At that time, this declaration was given the following preamble: “That our belief with regard to earthly governments and laws in general may not be misinterpreted nor misunderstood, we have thought proper to present, at the close of this volume, our opinion concerning the same” (History of the Church, 2:247). 1–4, Governments should preserve freedom of conscience and worship; 5–8, All men should uphold their governments and owe respect and deference to the law; 9–10, Religious societies should not exercise civil powers; 11–12, Men are justified in defending themselves and their property. Versus amount: 12 Suggested link: 98, Articles of Faith, 11 and 12 Summary: This section of the Doctrine and Covenants provides insights to the purpose of Governments and laws. Whether those governments and laws have a divine origin or are the results of man's endeavors, the underlying justification for their function is the same. They are to protect man's life, liberty, and property, whether it be temporal or spiritual in nature.. (Sacred Truths of the Doctrine and Covenants , vol. 1 by L. G. Otten, C. M. Caldwell, p.300)

I wonder if this also applies to flying...but, you are right, only the 'faithful' and honest of heart will be able to cross the waters when they flee their own lands.

August 12, 1831— McIlwaine's Bend, Missouri River. After Brother William W. Phelps saw the destroyer riding on the face of the river in an open vision by daylight, Joseph Smith received D&C 61, a revelation concerning Satan's power over the waters. (History of the Church, 1:203–5) Place: McIlwaine's Bend, Missouri River, Missouri Publication: Section 61 was first published in the Evening and Morning Star (December 1832) and was included as chapter 62 in the Book of Commandments in 1833 Historical Setting: After leaving Independence, Missouri, on 9 August 1831, the Prophet and his party traveled down the Missouri River to Fort Osage, where they spent the first night. Two days later (11 August) an accident occurred: The canoe in which the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon were riding ran into a tree lodged and bobbing in the river. The canoe was upset, and the occupants almost drowned. With this near tragedy, the party of eleven decided to land and encamp at a place called McIlwaine's Bend, some 100 miles from Independence. The location of McIlwaine's Bend is near present-day Miami, Saline County, Missouri (see map). Section 61, which was received the following morning (12 August), while the party still were at McIlwaine's Bend, warned of the dangers of traveling on water. The revelation instructed Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and Oliver Cowdery to leave the water route and travel by land to Cincinnati, Ohio, where they were to "open their mouths" in preaching the gospel. William W. Phelps and Sidney Gilbert, who were returning to prepare to move to Missouri, were to continue in haste, while the remainder of the elders were to preach along the way. After receiving the revelation at McIlwaine's Bend, Reynolds Cahoon wrote that the eleven men "then left the water [and] crosed the Misorie at Chariton." Sidney Gilbert, also traveling east with the group, prefaced a copy of section 61 with the words: "A Commandment recd the 12th Augt 1831 on the Banks of the Missouri about 40 miles above Chariton on our return from Zion." These references, seen together, assist greatly in locating McIlwaine's Bend, and suggest that the group left the Missouri River at or near the Miami Bend [McIlwaine's Bend], traveled several miles cross-country on the south side of the river, and then crossed the river and entered Chariton, Missouri. Joseph Fielding Smith - The next morning, after prayer the prophet received a revelation in which the elders received counsel in regard to their travels on the waters. The Lord declared that their sins were forgiven them and that he is merciful to those who confess their sins and will be humble. It was stated that it was not needful for the entire company to travel by water while people on both sides of the river were perishing for want of the Gospel. Then the Lord points out that there are many dangers upon the waters, and more especially upon these waters many of which were to come hereafter. (CHMR, 1947, 1:206) Joseph Smith - "On the 9th [of August, 1831], in company with ten Elders, I left Independence landing for Kirtland. We started down the river in canoes, and went the first day as far as Fort Osage, where we had an excellent wild turkey for supper. Nothing very important occurred till the third day, when many of the dangers so common upon the western waters, manifested themselves; and after we had encamped upon the bank of the river, at McIlwaine's Bend, Brother Phelps, in open vision by daylight, saw the destroyer in his most horrible power, ride upon the face of the waters; others heard the noise, but saw not the vision. "The next morning after prayer, I received the following: [D&C 61.]" (Joseph Smith, HC 1:202-3.) Background Narration: Steven C. Harper In Doctrine and Covenants 61 the Lord forgives the elders their sins; he continues to mercifully forgive the sins of all who humbly confess them. He tells the men it is no longer needful for the entire group to travel quickly down the river, for there are settlers on either side of it who need to be taught the gospel. The Lord has let the elders experience the river's terrors so they can testify of the "many dangers upon the waters" (v. 4) to others. In his anger, the Lord decreed "many destructions upon the waters" (v. 5), especially the Missouri River, but all flesh is in his hands, and he will preserve the faithful among this group of elders from drowning. The Lord has kept the group together this long so that they could be corrected, purified from their sins, and unified as a group, thus escaping punishment for their wickedness. The Lord commands them now to split up. The Lord assigns Sidney Gilbert and William Phelps to travel on the river, so they can quickly accomplish the tasks he has assigned them by revelation (see D&C 55–56). If they remain faithful, the Lord promises they will overcome any problems that traveling on the Missouri River might cause. Sidney Gilbert is commanded to give the other elders enough money to buy necessary clothing and to take the rest of the Lord's money with him to Ohio. The Lord commands them to travel in these ways for their own good. He explains that he blessed the waters during the Creation but later cursed them through the apostle John (see Revelation 8:8–11). The day will come when only the honest-hearted will safely travel to Zion by water, and the Lord commands the elders to warn the other Saints not to travel on the dangerous Missouri without faith. After the Fall the Lord cursed the land for Adam's sake, but in the latter days he blessed it to be fertile for the Saints' sake. The Lord has determined that the destroyer cover the water, and He has not changed his mind. He was angry with the elders the day they nearly drowned, but his anger is turned away. He reminds Sidney Gilbert and William Phelps to get back quickly to Ohio. It does not matter whether they go by land or by water as long as they fulfill their assignments. They can judge for themselves the best way to travel. As for Joseph, Sidney Rigdon, and Oliver Cowdery, they are to stay off the rivers unless using the extensive, and comparatively safe, canal system. The Lord appointed the canals and overland travel as the best way for Saints migrating from the East to get to Zion in Missouri. This commandment is for all the Saints, though the Lord allows Joseph, and perhaps others, power to command the water. They are given the liberty to follow the Spirit in deciding how to travel. The Lord tells Joseph, Sidney, and Oliver not to preach to the unrepentant until reaching Cincinnati. There they are to preach repentance to the people the Lord is angry with. They are wicked, "well-nigh ripened for destruction" (D&C 61:31). From Cincinnati, Joseph, Sidney, and Oliver are to return to the Saints in northeastern Ohio where they are sorely needed. The other elders present are commanded to preach the gospel to the unrepentant. If they will do so, they will not be accountable for the sins of the wicked on Judgment Day (see Jacob 1:19). He assigns them to go as companionships of their own choosing, specifying only that Reynolds Cahoon and Samuel Smith, with whom the Lord was well pleased, stay together all the way home. This pairing was "for a wise purpose in me," the Lord says (D&C 61:35). He tells Joseph, and by extension all the elders, to be cheerful, for He is with him. He affectionately calls them "little children," suggesting both immaturity and potential (v. 36). He has not forsaken them. If they will choose to be humble, he will bless them with his kingdom. "Pray always," the revelation concludes, "that you enter not into temptation, that you may abide the day of his coming, whether in life or in death" (v. 39). (Making Sense of the Doctrine and Covenants by Steven C. Harper) Section Header Notes: Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on the bank of the Missouri River, McIlwaine’s Bend, 12 August 1831 (see History of the Church, 1:202–5). On their return trip to Kirtland, the Prophet and ten elders had traveled down the Missouri River in canoes. On the third day of the journey, many dangers were experienced. Elder William W. Phelps, in a daylight vision, saw the destroyer riding in power upon the face of the waters. 1–12, The Lord has decreed many destructions upon the waters; 13–22, The waters were cursed by John, and the destroyer rides upon their face; 23–29, Some have power to command the waters; 30–35, Elders are to journey two by two and preach the gospel; 36–39, They are to prepare for the coming of the Son of Man. Versus amount: 39 Suggested link: 60, 62 Summary: (Though, I do not agree with this statement, knowing Satan does not have any power over any element, or, the elements do not honor Satan in any way. Neither did Joseph Smith ever give any allusion that Satan was indeed the destroyer. He simply gave the name as “destroyer” and nothing else. Even John stated in his vision (see the Book of Revelation) that an angel under the direction of the four destroyers (GOD’s representatives) rule over the waters. It was the same John who cursed the waters for the last days. This is very significant for our days to come in order to protect the Americas from foreign invaders (AntiChrist league of nations) when we will shall be weak. As stated in verse 14: I cursed the waters.] The reference here may be to passages in the book of Revelation written by the apostle John (see Revelation 8:8–11; 16:2–6), or perhaps to an event in the ministry of John not otherwise recorded in scripture. Now, if I am passionate about this, it is due to “personal knowledge” than what the brethren may be assuming as Satan. But, take it with a grain of salt of matter of opinions from various scholars and leadership - Hemidakota)- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Satan has certain powers over the elements. It is not wise to deliberately place one's self in a position where Lucifer's power can prevail over the individual. The faithful saints are assured of the Lord's prevailing power and of his protection. The Lord reigns. He will protect and provide for His faithful saints. (Sacred Truths of the Doctrine and Covenants , vol. 1 by L. G. Otten, C. M. Caldwell, p.300) Other Notes: 1] William Phelps carried out the commandment in this revelation to tell all the Saints about the dangers of traveling to Zion on the Missouri River. He published Doctrine and Covenants 61 in the Church's newspaper, The Evening and the Morning Star, along with an editorial listing the most notable "risks and dangers." First, there were frequent disasters on the river. Second, there was cholera, a devastating water-borne illness "which the Lord has sent into the world, and which may, without repentance, ravage the large towns near the waters, many years, or, at least, till other judgments come." William Phelps, "The Way of Journeying for the Saints of the Church of Christ," The Evening and the Morning Star, December 1832, 52–53. "I, in company with Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and others started by water for Ohio, but being cautioned in a Revelation given at, McElwains bend, that Missouri River was cursed, all the company save myself and brother Gilbert left the river and proceeded by land. I was assured by revelation, to be safe by land or water." "Short History of WW Phelps' Stay in Missouri," Church History Library, Salt Lake City 2] "the destroyer rideth upon the face" of the waters "These brethren while encamped at McIlwaine's Bend on the Missouri, beheld the power of the destroyer as he rode upon the storm. One of that number saw him in all his fearful majesty, and the Lord revealed to the entire group something of the power of this evil personage. It may seem strange to us, but it is the fact that Satan exercises dominion and has some control over the elements. . . . Paul speaks of Satan as the 'prince of the power of the air.' (Eph. 2:2.) The Lord revealed to these brethren some of the power of the adversary of mankind and how he rides upon the storm, as a means of affording them protection. They were commanded to use judgment as they traveled upon these waters, and the saints coming to Zion were instructed to travel by land on their way up to Zion. Moreover, notwithstanding the great power of Satan upon the waters, the Lord still held command and he could protect his people whether on land or by water as they journeyed." (Joseph Fielding Smith, CHMR 1:224-25.) "On the 8th of August, 1831, the Lord in a Revelation (Sec. 60) directed the Prophet Joseph and his companions to return to Kirtland by way of St. Louis. The following day the Prophet, in company with ten Elders, left Independence in canoes and proceeded down the river. The journey was uneventful, until the third day, when the dangers of river-navigation became manifest. The travelers had landed at McIlwair's, or McIlwaine's, Bend, where they encamped on the bank of the river. While here William W. Phelps had a vision in which he saw 'the destroyer' riding upon the face of the waters. Some of the Elders heard a noise, though they did not see anything. The 'destroyer' seen by William W. Phelps in a vision, was, in all probability, the Evil One himself." (Smith and Sjodahl, DCC, p. 367.)

You can contact them if you like...but remember, not all of us think alike. GS, you will be surprise the humility level of these brothers do have and love for the members of the church...and what I have already seen, your sincerity in seeking answers much as I do, is given to having a treasured dialog. To let you know, you have opened a door for me in asking for something that has brought more understanding about our development and what is carried forth into this life: the WHY(s) and the HOW(s). I would never thought of seeking an answer for this. Anyway, I must leave now. I have received something I need to research over tonight. Thanks again my brother.

Pam, only if you knew why I had asked. I am trying to bring closure to a prayer of many years now in what I believe is PROGRESSION of Spirits and mortal man. [Tears in my eyes - trying to tell you how I feel being in cyber space at this moment with feeling the presence of my friend the Holy Ghost] This information has made my week in asking for a confirmation from GOD on what I already formulated a few years back. IF I could give you both hugs [Pam and Wingnut] through the monitor, you have them.

DISCLAIMER: I see life differently than most and not advocating church policy or doctrine here but my own opinion here (noting the brethren do frequent this board). Seeing mortal life is no more than 30-75 minutes of heavenly time, the answer would be still – no. Sin or no sin, it is still not eternal. Now, if this civil union is a measure to bring repentance and within a year of reconciling their sins, then seek this sacred ceremony, this would bring happiness (more like tears) to my soul. One less couple who grip that the devils cannot rejoice over. GS, I do “fear and tremble” over my own salvation at any sin that is left unturned in this life. The greater the knowledge one receives, the greater the sin one stands to repent. Like the Savior, who is my exemplar, I place myself in a constant reminder in changing my character daily to better myself before GOD. There are specific few people in my life and on this board I do admire and seek to take the best of part of their character and seek to add it to my soul. I do seek to please GOD (heavenly parents I do call them at times) and His son and not the world. This is my line of reasoning. My children know how I think…even my youngest who came to seek a special blessing under my hand before GOD. We cannot turn to the left or to right on a narrow path which leads to the Tree of Life (see Lehi’s vision of the Tree of Life). What most people don’t realize, the path is broad at the beginning but become so narrow at the end before one can sit under it and receive eternal love and true joy.

Anatass - resounds the polygamy issue where the church was at first 'willing to break' the law of the land. But, through seeking guidance of the Lord, it was the Savior who overturns the polygamy principle for the church. I do concur. I do see something more sinister coming in a decade or sooner. I do believe there is going to be a final national addendum that overturned all the stated by compellation; creating its own definition of marriage and structure. What will the church do then? Even though, the stated will have no say so in debating its own accord, this is where I do believe the prophet will need to see guidance from the Lord on what to do. My own opinion here, I believe at this point, the church will need to fight it lawfully at first and eventually, if they are still in control of the state, break off from the union or stopped all temple marriage in order to preserve this sacred ordinance. When this happen, I do believe the nation is done and turned over to GOD’s henchmen (destroyers – based on what Lord stated for this land of Zion to live His laws or be casted off). You are right though, this land is a beacon to the world to come and be free to live your beliefs. Even Joseph stated in the last days, it will be land of haven and safety from the world that gone wrong.

I thought they were still functioning in Utah.

Move...or live the law. They have a choice. We could have a vote and cast Gilligan out of office. But then, the professor will come back, acting as a federal island judge and state, it was unconstitutional.

If one looked at the eternal perspective then yes. They are only bound by that law only (the world) and not of GOD. And yes! I know that GOD still honors this form of marriage and structure of a married couple. But GS, in the latter end of going back to our former world, are they "still married" in heaven?

What a blessed parent. You are not alone in this teaching method. I do the same with my children regards to PBs. I do not compel or force them to receive one if there is no desire to do so. As to baptism, I do not baptized any of my children when they reach the age of eight but allow them the time to ask for it themselves. Thus, allowing them their own agency to choose for themselves when to be baptized. It becomes more meaningful later in life and not a normal church ritual with age.

Who is the govern authority of that island makes the law. If the law states this is the law. Then we can presume, it is lawful as to a civil union. It may not be lawful with other nations if they decided to move off the Island.

Let me see if I understand your posting Gwen, I was married only in the temple, is my temple marriage not lawful?

I only look at what is eternal and not the world.

CH, page 9 [ ] now, did everyone answer your questions?

I still don't celebrate or have changed my opinion since this happened. Being close to her, I gave her an outlook with her life (at that time) for the next few years. I was right on what had happened during that timeframe. But, I do see a bright future for her and as a parent, carry the hope and faith; she will make amends with GOD. The sin I am looking at is not of convenient of marriage to appease a sexual sin, but, an eternal one of knowing and turning against knowledge received. Is there repentance to this? Yes! But, she must have a desire to seek it first. I will celebrate when I can meet with the Savior over this matter and seek His mercies.

Do you have the complete story or link? Thanks...

I did on my first one...

Let put forth a question that may come to past very soon: if the law in the nation changes to allow same gender marriages, would the church recognizes this constituted marriage?

I had a child who was civilly married. Did I celebrate at this feast? NO..but, I still show great love for her as my daughter and still to this day, I keep this bond of relationship open. My celebration will come later if she endures, we can be together as a family in the eternities.

We have some issues even on this forum. But, at least here, the board is very diverse in beliefs and knowledge. Welcome to the board...

It is the right word and don't be offended over it by others here. I use the term 'celebrate' as part of acceptance. I not offended if someone told me I was misguided and baptized in the Catholic religion. I would say, "YES! You are right." It comes with humility upon correction. As with sin, I ensure that I make it known everyday to my elder brother, how grateful I am for the His tender mercies for me and my foes, that we have another day to repent.