Finrock

Mormon's response is regarding "little children' who have not reached the age of accountability. This doctrine we agree on. We would disagree on the interpretation of scripture, and Carb then provides a good question regarding Alvin, "Why even do any work in the temple"? If we then take Alvin as an example all the temple work I have performed for my ancestors who died before Alvin, who did not have the gospel (but were "honest but unbaptized Christian"), they then would also not need proxy either, and this work has been done in vain.
Here is words from the Church's history portion of their website, "In January 1836, Joseph Smith saw a vision of the celestial kingdom in which he learned that those who did not receive the fulness of the gospel in this life but would have if given the chance, such as his brother Alvin, would not be denied the highest rewards in the life to come. With this vision, the Lord began to gradually reveal the doctrines and practices surrounding baptism for the dead to Joseph Smith and his successors over the course of several years.
Joseph’s vision affirmed God’s mercy, but it was not entirely clear whether the scriptural requirement of baptism would be waived for Alvin and others like him or whether it would be fulfilled in some other way. Some Latter-day Saints recognized this gap in their knowledge. Joseph Fielding, for example, “thought much on the subject of the redemption of those who died under the broken covenant” and speculated that “perhaps those who receive the priesthood in these last days would baptize them at the coming of the Savior.”1
But at the funeral of Seymour Brunson on August 15, 1840, Joseph Smith taught the principle that men and women on earth could act for their deceased kin and fulfill the requirement of baptism on their behalf. The Saints joyfully embraced this opportunity and began almost immediately to be baptized for departed loved ones in rivers and streams near Nauvoo." (emphasis added)

The only ways I see to get the quote block are:
Click the "Quote" link at the bottom of someone else's post. (System attributes the quote in the "header" thereof.) Highlight a portion of a post and click the "Quote this" text that pops up. (System attributes the quote in the "header" thereof.) Click the quote icon in the toolbar of your post.  System identifies it as a "Quote" but doesn't provide a way to edit the "header" thereof.  To do that, most folks will do one of the following: or
...or something similar.

Ordinances must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise for them to have any justification in the afterlife. I remember when I was sealed and the officiator declared the following, "Thank you for having the Spirit with you. I am truly sorry for these young men and young women who enter the temple unworthy to receive the blessings and the spirit does not justify the ordinance, and until they repent their temple ordinance will not be validated in the afterlife." In other words, they have no promise. So, in this case, even approved ordinances to a degree mean "squate" (not sure if that is the best word though) if the Holy Spirit of promise doesn't accompany the saving ordinance. At the end of this statement he thanked Ms. Anddenex and I for living worthy such that the Spirit of promise sealed our sealing. I am thinking this is what Finrock is referring to.

My opinion per Finrock's question: related to the two primary meanings as I see it to what makes a church true and living, no there are no other true and living churches -- the meanings being this: authority for revelation and authority for ordinances. These are the true and living components that I understand as the meaning of the phrase and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church that has such authority. The revelation side of things certainly exists outside the LDS church, but not the authority for organized revelation by the order of the priesthood required for the knowledge of the second point -- the ordinances of the gospel, which is wherein the true power, authority, meaning, and value of the church.

Do you think that this verse leaves room for there to be other true and living churches with which the Lord is simply pleased, or displeased, or not well pleased?
The current knowledge and understanding I have of this verse is specific to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, meaning that this is the only true and living Church that offers the ability (in this life) for the sons & daughters of God to reach their full potential (without proper saving ordinances we are unable to reach our full potential). In light of this, I currently do not believe this refers to any other church body except the restored gospel of Jesus Christ (as to true and living churches). Living means "collective and personal revelation" and being fully directed by the Lord which requires priesthood power, priesthood authority, and priesthood keys. No other church offers these options, other than The Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints.
Am I in agreement that there are churches with which the Lord would be pleased with the efforts of its leaders? Yes. My mind draws upon the Lord's guidance to the apostles who wanted to stop a man who did not have authority, but was going about doing good. The Lord did not stop him, but showed his apostles that he was (to a point) pleased with the individuals desire to draw people to Christ. What we don't have is the full story regarding further instruction and how after this statement they interacted with this brother who was going about doing good. I would say our current top leadership are showing us this example as they serve with other churches who are going about doing good, seeking to bring people to Christ, and they aren't directly trying to stop these leaders obeying the Lord's counsel. Do I believe the Lord is pleased with these individuals, yes (to a point).
That particular verse also seems to leave room for churches that are true, but not necessarily living.
I would call possible "semantics" argument here. There are other churches that teach portions of truth, but are not themselves "true." We are in agreement of them not living as previously stated in my first paragraph. I would then call into evidence President Hinckley's statement (can't find the exact quote) where he stated to potential converts/investigator, "Bring all the good with you, and let us add unto it." (paraphrased).
True, as to my knowledge/understanding, means that what is taught will save (exaltation), anything less isn't completely true.

Thanks Anddenex. I use to say the phrase just because it was what you say, but, currently I am not a fan of that phrase either.
As I read the verse D&C 1:30, it technically does not exclude other churches as being true. It affirms that the Church spoken of in D&C 1:30 is the only true and living church with which the Lord is well pleased, but it does not actually deny that other true and living churches exist. Do you think that this verse leaves room for there to be other true and living churches with which the Lord is simply pleased, or displeased, or not well pleased? That particular verse also seems to leave room for churches that are true, but not necessarily living.
What do you think?
-Finrock

I, personally, am not fond of the phrase itself "The Church is true"; however, I understand this is said because of the scripture already shared D&C 1:30, and that individuals are using this phrase to mean that this is God's church with which he is well pleased. I understand that others use this phrase to mean that what the Church proclaims to be -- it is.
 
 

I often hear this said and I've said it myself as well, but what does the phrase, "The Church is true" actually mean? What does it mean to you? Is there even such a thing as an objective definition/meaning of the phrase, "The Church is true"?
Curious to know what others think.
-Finrock

@Traveler LDS survived official government orders to terminate, and Pentecostals rose from a small band of rag-tag folk from the wrong side of the tracks. Today you are 15 million or so, with half your people in other countries. My fellowship is 60+ million strong, with 95% being out of country. If the Holy Spirit is with us we will be productive in the Last Days harvest fields of our Lord. 

With protests in many cities around the US I wonder if protesters will ever recognize the real problem. It is not Donald Trump and all he has said (as bad as it is). The fundamental problem is that over time we have allowed one person to have such power over us. On his word alone the country can go to war, he can issue executive orders effecting 100's of millions, and he can even tell store owners who is allowed in their bathrooms. 
A recent article I read said it so well:
Unfortunately, I don't think the protesters will see that power is the problem. I suspect nothing will curb the power of the President or this National government short of internal conflict, if even that does. Instead, the left will try and elect someone who can "stand up" to the right. In return the right will try and enforce their will, and the real loser in this game will be our personal freedom.
Am I just pessimistic? Does anyone ever see the possibility that the President, Congress, or this machine we call government will lessen it's hold over us?  

This may seem selfish, but I pray because God is my friend that I can trust and depend on. I often ask for His advice on many situations in life. Like, I might be struggling with my feelings or with a family member. I can talk to Him about anything. I know He understands me. I know He loves me. I trust Him completely. I love that He listens to me. He has a way of making feel better whenever I am in need of relief. Praying to God helps me feel connected and as being a part of a family. He talks back to me, gives me ideas. He provides a better way to handle or deal with things. He shows me my weaknesses, but never punitively, or with anger, contempt, or anything of the sort. I love Him, so I pray to Him.
I understand that He knows the beginning from the end, but I don't know the beginning from the end. So, I pray to Him to find out what I don't know. I know He doesn't mind and is happy to reveal things to me.
-Finrock

I'm looking forward to freedom. Freedom in its purest form. Freedom from sin. Freedom from oppression. Freedom from illness and sickness. Freedom to do any and all good things possible. Freedom to be.
-Finrock

And this not grudgingly.
-Finrock

To attain the fulness of the priesthood is to attain His presence as with Melchizedek, Enoch, Moses and others, who as "priests" unto the most high God, by the sealing power, which comes from the calling of His own voice, can and will reign down terror upon a telestial people who fight against Him and His people.
This is why Zion will be terrible to the people of the world who will be at war against each other and against the people of Zion. They are people who will not simply walk into Zion untested and unprepared. One does not simply take up residence without being cleansed. One becomes a Zion individual before coming unto Zion. One must have the kind of faith required to sacrifice all things, to lay down this life for a more excellent one. 
 
 

Being filled with the Spirit, means being filled with God's power, which is priesthood. Millions of individuals full of the Spirit of God, or full of God's power, can't be messed with, to put it in mundane terms. And when I say full, I mean full.
-Finrock

I love your attitude, your sincerity, and pure intent. Almost brings me to tears.
All will work out for you to go on a mission. Don't worry.
-Finrock

Hey y'all. Some of you may remember me from the start of the year, when I first started investigating the church and had a lot of questions and struggles, which have since been answered. The church has completely helped change my life for the better, I'm no longer struggling with the stuff I used struggle with and I'm grateful for it everyday.
I talked with my bishop this week and, if all goes well, I'm due to start my mission in summer of next year. I have done a lot of preparation for it: helping teach with the missionaries every day (I've been called as one of the two ward missionaries), learning my scripture and adhering to the commandments. However, the one problem: money. I make 180 a week. The cost of a mission is around 8500. If I save every bit of money I have between now and then, I'll have at most 6000. The bishop says that the church pays for some of it, but currently there's only 2000 in the church funds and there are two other missionaries hoping to serve around the same time as me, and one other person who said he might be serving but seems to be having a change-of-heart atm. They've been in the church a lot longer than I have, and their families are members of the church, so it's likely that the funds will be used to help finance them instead, if there isn't enough to cover all of us.
One thing:
My family are okay with me going on a mission. However, they don't want to pay anything towards it because my mum's afraid that, in a few months, i'll change my mind and decide not to go. However, are we able to serve without paying the full price? As in, as long as we have it all paid before the end of our mission, is that okay? If I do go on my mission, then she'll know that I haven't changed my mind and I might be able to ask her to pay for the remainder of it over the two years, for my birthday and Christmas presents of those years, and I'll repay her when I get back.
 
Basically, does anyone have any advice on how to save for a mission and the best way of financing it, and the best way of asking my family to help? I hate asking anyone to help but, if I want to serve a mission as soon as this summer, I might need her input! Also, I've got some job interviews lined up, obviously if I get a job that will help with the costs!

It most definitely helps to freely and openly talk about your abuse under the right circumstances. I would say for most victims of abuse in order for them to get healing they must break free from the silence, the shame, and the fear. Abuse thrives in secrecy and will continue to afflict and torment the victim if left in the dark. Exposing this stuff is a critical step in transitioning from a victim to a survivor. It can be uncomfortable for some to hear some of these things, but, life sometimes sucks and crappy things happen. Those who have been victims can benefit greatly from hearing from those who have healed and are now survivors and are no longer afflicted, pained, or harmed from the abuse. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mean that we need to speak about all of the details freely and openly in every circumstance, but, in the appropriate place and time and to the appropriate people, getting all of that stuff out in detail is a critical step. It needs to be exposed to the full light of the day in order to truly start dealing with it and healing from it.
-Finrock
 

I haven't talked to anyone at Church about it.. I'm going to secular therapy.  Ive only spoke to the Bishop twice in year I've been attending Church to get a limited use recommend and to accept a calling.   I think it will really help though.   Thanks for sharing 

How do you work on being able to feel the spirit more? At the minute I feel really without direction, I have prayed about it lots but I don't feel as though I actually get an answer,  like I'm being guided by the Holy Ghost.    Im a really unemotional person,  I would never have joined the Church just on a feeling,  I read everything I could get my hands on good and bad before joining.    I envy people at Church who seem so contented and get very emotional about their testimony as I can see that they truly have such deep faith yet I've never really had feelings like that except a couple of times, one doing baptisms at the Temple and I didn't really know what was happening at the time just that I felt really overwhelmed and upset.   Any advice. 

OK thanks for the replies..  I haven't replied sooner as I've been thinking and praying about this.   I had a really abusive childhood and I have come to the conclusion that joining the Church has brought these feelings to the surface and is why I'm having difficulties in the Church so I'm going to go for some therapy to put it to bed and start moving forward.    Thanks you for all your encouragement.  

What has helped me a lot in my life is recognizing that the spark or light that is inside each of us, no matter how small, is divine. God is not far away, on some distant planet. He is here amongst us, with you. Don't sell yourself short. Although God is there with us and it might seem like He is just standing by watching, I believe that His arm is outstretched continuously and He wants to have a conversational, personal, and loving relationship with you. God is love. Think about that.
The Spirit will be felt in the heart and in the mind. You are a spirit of God. Whatever portion of light, life, and truth that is inside of you also exist in God. In that sense you are in God and God is in you. I have found that meditation is essential in my life to feeling close to God and peering through the veil and seeing not just God's hand, but His total involvement in your life. Don't forget that Heavenly Mother is also real and She too has an influence in your life and is very interested in you. We truly have loving Parents.
What I'm about to say next, please don't misunderstand as me being rude or insensitive. Most of the time when we don't feel that closeness or sense the presence of God in our life, it is because of ignorance or unbelief. We either have some misunderstanding about God or we just don't believe what God says. Trust me, I'm not better and I am not saying that I am special. I'm just speaking from my own experience in life. We can get that assurance from God that He approves of us and our life. We just need to ask, quite often, in mighty prayer. I would encourage you to read the Book of Mormon, especially the examples provided where prophets such as Enos, Nephi, Alma, and others received a remission of their sins and they received an assurance from God that they were forgiven.
From my experience, God is totally loving, very kind, good natured, patient, and not malicious at all. He wants to uplift us and to help us feel happy and good about ourselves. He truly understands human weakness. He won't hold that against you. He totally gets the human condition and is ready to forgive and forget. Not saying you are sinful or anything, but just saying that God thinks that you are wonderful and great no matter what!
-Finrock

Thanks Pam.
-Finrock

I would argue that Jesus could not read minds.  He was, after all, fully human.  He became "a little lower than the angels."  My take is that the Holy Spirit granted him the insight, just as he might to us, as a gifting at a particular time. 

An additional thought, if there is still some interest...(a passage which is twisted and misconstrued by many Christian commentators):
 
Isaiah taught: "And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/8.18-20?lang=eng#17
 
Suggested translation: if someone claiming to be a messenger isn't teaching people to seek God, (central to the OT writings in the Law and the testimony), that would indicate there is no light in them.
 
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/num/11.25-29?lang=eng#24
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/jer/31.31-34?lang=eng#30
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/1.17-20?lang=eng#16
 
More especially:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/4.29-31?lang=eng#28
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/james/1.5?lang=eng#4