Vort

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  1. Like
    Vort got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in No in-betweeners?   
    I very explicitly disbelieve this. We have been told almost nothing about the lower kingdoms or what covenants are required to enter therein. This is because God wants us to be celestial. Our current prophet and senior apostle has clearly stated that we are to "think celestial". We are not to resign ourselves to a lesser kingdom or start planning for our more modest mansion in the terrestrial regions. The Lord Himself, both during mortality and in His eternal nature, has told us that eternal life—which is to say, exaltation—is the greatest of God's gifts, and that He wants to bestow that gift upon each of His children, and will do so to all who will receive that greatest of gifts.
    No, we do not need a better understanding of a lesser place. We need a better understanding of the celestial realms and, more importantly, a better understanding of what we must know, do, and be in order to gain that exaltation.
  2. Like
    Vort got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in No in-betweeners?   
    Someone has more than a little left to learn about human nature.
  3. Like
    Vort got a reaction from mordorbund in No in-betweeners?   
    Indeed, including statements from our leaders during the last fifty or so years that unanimously affirm that this life is the time to prepare to meet God, We have been warned against the philosophy of "eat, drink, and be merry...and it shall be well with us; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." Jacob goes on to call these "false and vain and foolish doctrines".
    Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance. Don't say, "Oh, celestial is too hard. I'll just live a telestial/terrestrial life. That's good enough, because eventually I'll get there." The truth of the matter is that celestial living is not merely far more rewarding than terrestrial/telestial living; it is EASIER. Show some faith. Believe the prophets and the scriptures. Think celestial.
  4. Like
    Vort got a reaction from zil2 in No in-betweeners?   
    I very explicitly disbelieve this. We have been told almost nothing about the lower kingdoms or what covenants are required to enter therein. This is because God wants us to be celestial. Our current prophet and senior apostle has clearly stated that we are to "think celestial". We are not to resign ourselves to a lesser kingdom or start planning for our more modest mansion in the terrestrial regions. The Lord Himself, both during mortality and in His eternal nature, has told us that eternal life—which is to say, exaltation—is the greatest of God's gifts, and that He wants to bestow that gift upon each of His children, and will do so to all who will receive that greatest of gifts.
    No, we do not need a better understanding of a lesser place. We need a better understanding of the celestial realms and, more importantly, a better understanding of what we must know, do, and be in order to gain that exaltation.
  5. Like
    Vort reacted to SilentOne in Resurrect Your Life!   
    I will be going to the temple more often
  6. Like
    Vort reacted to ZealoulyStriving in Resurrect Your Life!   
    One of if not the principle message I got from Conference: Regular, consistent Temple worship is the only path to survive spiritually in coming days.
  7. Like
    Vort got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in No in-betweeners?   
    Indeed, including statements from our leaders during the last fifty or so years that unanimously affirm that this life is the time to prepare to meet God, We have been warned against the philosophy of "eat, drink, and be merry...and it shall be well with us; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." Jacob goes on to call these "false and vain and foolish doctrines".
    Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance. Don't say, "Oh, celestial is too hard. I'll just live a telestial/terrestrial life. That's good enough, because eventually I'll get there." The truth of the matter is that celestial living is not merely far more rewarding than terrestrial/telestial living; it is EASIER. Show some faith. Believe the prophets and the scriptures. Think celestial.
  8. Like
    Vort got a reaction from SilentOne in No in-betweeners?   
    I very explicitly disbelieve this. We have been told almost nothing about the lower kingdoms or what covenants are required to enter therein. This is because God wants us to be celestial. Our current prophet and senior apostle has clearly stated that we are to "think celestial". We are not to resign ourselves to a lesser kingdom or start planning for our more modest mansion in the terrestrial regions. The Lord Himself, both during mortality and in His eternal nature, has told us that eternal life—which is to say, exaltation—is the greatest of God's gifts, and that He wants to bestow that gift upon each of His children, and will do so to all who will receive that greatest of gifts.
    No, we do not need a better understanding of a lesser place. We need a better understanding of the celestial realms and, more importantly, a better understanding of what we must know, do, and be in order to gain that exaltation.
  9. Like
    Vort reacted to zil2 in No in-betweeners?   
    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to me, @Maverick, that what you're saying boils down to:
    1. You judge the vast majority of the members of the Church unworthy of Celestial glory.
    Elder Oaks on that judgement.
    2. In consequence of your unauthorized judgement, you don't believe God will do what scripture teaches (see D&C 76, 131, 132 - and others):
    3. Therefore, to reconcile the conflict between your unauthorized judgement and your disbelief in scripture, you choose to believe in something scripture says isn't possible - progression between kingdoms:
    See Elder McConkie's "Seven Deadly Heresies", specifically, heresy five (with cited scriptures).
    The simple solution is to stop the unauthorized judgement, believe the scriptures, and trust Christ.
    Personally, I believe the scriptures, I am incapable of accurately judging another person's spiritual status, and I know that Christ's grace is sufficient for the humble.  I also think telling people not to worry about it because they can always catch up in eternity is a terrible, terrible thing to do - and lies in the same vein as Satan's "all is well in Zion".
    Folks won't have any problem attaining these kingdoms without help from the Lord's restored Church.  They won't need His priesthood, ordinances, or covenants to get there.  They don't need to understand the fullness of his gospel.  The Church has its hands full bringing as many as will come into those covenants so that they can prepare to receive celestial glory by the grace of Christ.  In short, we know enough about both of the lesser kingdoms and must focus our efforts on the celestial.
  10. Haha
    Vort reacted to Carborendum in No in-betweeners?   
    Why didn't you ask about Pinochle?  I said shoot the moon.
  11. Like
    Vort reacted to estradling75 in No in-betweeners?   
    Before the Kingdoms of Glory were revealed to us... The same type of question was asked about the dividing line between Heaven and Hell.  The best in Hell and the worst in Heaven weren't that much apart yet there rewards were starkly different.
    Now the Lord has revealed the Three Kingdoms of Glory showing that not all receive the same rewards...  We don't know much about the Kingdoms of Glory except that the Celestial Kingdom appears to have an internal difference of rewards between the Exalted and the rest.
    Therefore to me the revelations of the Three Kingdoms of Glory is a giant clue bat that we should stop thinking that the Heaven/Hell model or the Kingdom's model is an all or nothing type deal in the Lord's plan.  But rather its more of a spectrum.  Sure there are lines drawn but the reward/punishment change is gradual as you move through it. 
     
  12. Like
    Vort reacted to Still_Small_Voice in No in-betweeners?   
    Every parable or symbol has limitations or boundaries.  Try not to look beyond the mark with a symbol or parable.
    For example: Jesus Christ is the good shepherd.  We are His sheep.  Is Jesus planning on shearing off our wool and killing us someday for food?
  13. Like
    Vort reacted to CV75 in No in-betweeners?   
    No, I think they are as infinitely distant in glory, as the brightest light of the fullest moon is infinitely (meaning indeterminately) less than the brightness of the sun from the perspective of the ancient, unaided human eye.
  14. Like
    Vort got a reaction from ZealoulyStriving in Time elapsed between Christs death and appearance in the Americas   
    (The buried lede: Christ's criticism of Nephi for not keeping the records up-to-date by failing to record the fulfillment of Samuel's prophecy of the miracle of dead Saints being resurrected and appearing to many, a thing which could not reasonably have happened within mere days of Jesus' death, belies Tvedtnes' argument for an immediate-post-resurrection appearance of Jesus to the Nephites.)
    This article includes some uncharacteristic slipups by Tvedtnes—an accusation I don't make lightly, since I'm something of a Tvedtnes fan. His whole approach in this particular article seems to reflect an attitude of President-Smith-wrote-this-in-his-book-and-I-want-to-believe-him, to the point that Tvedtnes decides (rather arbitrarily, if you ask me) that the gospel of Matthew is more reliable than the gospels of Mark and Luke, because Matthew might have been written by an actual apostle and eyewitness. Too many suppositions and inferences there to list out in this post, and certainly too many for me to easily agree with him. I actually agree with Rameumptom's take, which in itself is not exactly unusual. Ram and I probably agreed more than we disagreed about such things. But I would not easily have guessed that I would agree with Rameumptom and disagree with Tvedtnes on a point of doctrine and scriptural interpretation.
    Tvedtnes' argument is basically as follows:
    When Mormon wrote "in the ending of the thirty and fourth year", he wasn't actually talking about when Jesus showed himself to the Nephites, but rather was writing about when the record-keepers of the time had actually written down the news of Jesus' coming among the Nephites.
    Yup, that's the argument. As Dave Barry might have written, I am not making this up.
    While I think that Tvedtnes' argument in defense of this is quite weak (and you're welcome to read it yourself and decide if you agree or disagree), I am surprised by at least one glaring omission that Tvedtnes makes. 3 Nephi 23:8-14 tells of Jesus commanding the records (scripture) to be brought to him. After looking them over, Jesus carries on the following conversation with his disciples:
    "Verily I say unto you, I commanded my servant Samuel, the Lamanite, that he should testify unto this people, that at the day that the Father should glorify his name in me that there were many saints who should arise from the dead, and should appear unto many, and should minister unto them." And he said unto them: "Was it not so?" And his disciples answered him and said: "Yea, Lord, Samuel did prophesy according to thy words, and they were all fulfilled."
    Then Jesus asks the following question and gets an interesting response:
    And Jesus said unto them: "How be it that ye have not written this thing, that many saints did arise and appear unto many and did minister unto them?" And it came to pass that Nephi remembered that this thing had not been written.
    Feminists and other wokeists have misinterpreted this plain recounting. To be fair, almost everyone gets sloppy in reading this and misinterprets it, at least until they read it carefully and actually think about it a bit.
    The common (and wrong) interpretation is as follows: Nephi and the other record-keepers had failed ever to record Samuel's prophecy, given probably more than 30 years earlier, of the dead Saints rising to life again and appearing to many. According to today's woke crowd, this is evidence of Nephite racism: Why else would they fail to record this mighty prophecy from a great prophet if not because Samuel was a hated Lamanite?
    Nonsense. But that's what people think. Look at the chapter header; even the apostle who wrote it (probably McConkie) appeared to take this view. The First Presidency apparently approved it.
    But that is not what the verse says!
    Read it again. Jesus criticized his disciples that "this thing" had not been recorded. What thing? The prophecy itself? No, the prophecy had been duly recorded thirty years earlier, when it was given. Jesus' criticism of his disciples was that the fact that the prophecy had been fulfilled was not recorded—"that many saints did arise and appear unto many and did minister unto them". It's as plain as day. Just read the words. Jesus asked whether Samuel's prophecy had actually come about, and was told that it had. Then Jesus asked why the fact that many Saints had arisen and appeared unto many had not been recorded in their scripture, and Nephi remembered that "this thing"—the fulfillment of Samuel's prophecy—had not been written, probably because Nephi himself was the one who had failed to do so in good time.
    Now remember, Tvedtnes' argument is that Jesus appeared to the Nephites within days of his crucifixion and resurrection—not months, not even weeks, but days. So assume that Tvedtnes' (and, to be fair and transparent, President Joseph F. Smith's) theory is correct. During the hours or at most perhaps a day (probably not two) after Christ's resurrection, some dead Saints had arisen, had appeared unto many, and had ministered unto them. Nephi knew about this, that it had happened...
    ...And hours later, Christ himself is chastising Nephi because, after all the momentous destructions that had taken place in the previous 72 hours, Nephi had not yet found time to go to the records and write, "Just pulled another survivor out of the rubble, but her parents didn't make it. Searched for food all day and found a source of clean water to keep people alive. By the way, some dead Saints were resurrected and appeared to us and ministered to us this morning, just like Samuel the Lamanite said! Going off now to make shelter for the wounded in hopes that they can survive the night."
    The absurdity should be obvious. For the risen Lord to have had the expectation that His disciples responsible for keeping the records should have recorded the fulfillment of Samuel's prophecy clearly indicates that sufficient time must have passed for the Saints to have arisen, to have appeared to and ministered to many, and for his disciples then to have opened the sacred records and written of the fulfillment of such a glorious prophecy. Eleven months after His resurrection? Makes perfect sense; Jesus is not happy that they have failed to record the fulfillment of such an important prophecy. Three days after His crucifixion? Nonsense.
    Yeah, I don't think so.
  15. Like
    Vort got a reaction from Carborendum in Why is this not in the Inspired Version of the Bible?   
    Funny you should say that. This is my own opinion, also. Joseph didn't tinker with the content of his revelations; those are pretty static (though e.g. his various First Vision recountings do emphasize and bring to the fore different aspects of that encounter). But he seemed to have no problem rewriting parts of his Book of Mormon "translation"* when he thought the original wording didn't quite get the point right. He reworded, and I think it would be fair to say revised, revelations included in the Book of Commandments/Doctrine and Covenants as they came up for republishing. Joseph seemed to approach the role of prophet as a very dynamic one. And while he took his responsibilities very seriously indeed, I get the impression that he did not really take himself too seriously. He certainly had no problem admitting error in his work or revising how or what he said if it didn't feel right to him.
    *I put the word "translation" in quotes, not because I don't think it was a translation—it clearly was—but because we have a rather straightforward view of what a translation is and is not. I don't think Joseph's Book of Mormon translation fits the way we use the word today.
  16. Confused
    Vort got a reaction from Traveler in Another Utah influencer arrested, or, pride cycles   
    What does this mean?
  17. Like
    Vort got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Why is this not in the Inspired Version of the Bible?   
    Funny you should say that. This is my own opinion, also. Joseph didn't tinker with the content of his revelations; those are pretty static (though e.g. his various First Vision recountings do emphasize and bring to the fore different aspects of that encounter). But he seemed to have no problem rewriting parts of his Book of Mormon "translation"* when he thought the original wording didn't quite get the point right. He reworded, and I think it would be fair to say revised, revelations included in the Book of Commandments/Doctrine and Covenants as they came up for republishing. Joseph seemed to approach the role of prophet as a very dynamic one. And while he took his responsibilities very seriously indeed, I get the impression that he did not really take himself too seriously. He certainly had no problem admitting error in his work or revising how or what he said if it didn't feel right to him.
    *I put the word "translation" in quotes, not because I don't think it was a translation—it clearly was—but because we have a rather straightforward view of what a translation is and is not. I don't think Joseph's Book of Mormon translation fits the way we use the word today.
  18. Haha
    Vort got a reaction from mirkwood in Homophobic abuse of the heterosexual, Bo Derek and the sanctity of marriage   
    Things would be better if they would just stay off the lawn.
  19. Like
    Vort reacted to NeuroTypical in The stay-at-home girlfriend   
    Eating my lunch and scrolling, and I came across an example of what I’m talking about:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/GMq9NalMTp8?si=JGF6ByKYshz-JJ2I
     
    it is nice to see younger folks arrive at a little bit of wisdom on their own. Completely secular viewpoint being given here.
     
  20. Sad
    Vort got a reaction from Jamie123 in Curses of minor inconvenience   
    Gentamicin has seen to it that I hear continuous noise day and night. It's always with me, a kind of devoted but annoying friend that never, ever shuts up.
  21. Like
    Vort reacted to Just_A_Guy in The stay-at-home girlfriend   
    It’s also worth noting that a man who did that would pretty much have to haul up stakes and leave town; because socially/ professionally/ religiously, he’d be absolutely finished among those who knew what he had done.
    But the risk of a “tradwife” relationship isn’t all one-sided.  The breadwinner takes a risk that his wife isn’t going to render him both breadwinner and homemaker by deciding that household drudgery is beneath her or by developing a chronic physical or mental illness.  And of course, if *she* leaves *him*, the alimony can be catastrophic.
    Fundamentally, any marriage (regardless of the anticipated economic arrangement) is a tremendous leap of faith.  And I realize I’m judgmental, but part of me thinks “if you’re going to farm the kids out to daycare and insist on working/insist she works because you think there’s a good chance your marriage, specifically, will end in divorce; then why are you getting married at all?”
     
  22. Haha
    Vort reacted to Backroads in The stay-at-home girlfriend   
    I'm at the point of my life where I don't like much of the social scene. I like the comfort of a purchased home with my name on the paperwork and a legal marriage and kids and the friends I have. I think I look pretty darn good (though I'm currently pregnant enough to have the construction workers on the street outside of my house bending to my every whim: they will literally move entire trucks for me in fear I will pass out on the sidewalk from walking) but the friends with benefits is something that can potentially only work so long before I believe most people want a lot more.
  23. Haha
    Vort got a reaction from Backroads in The stay-at-home girlfriend   
    Ah, yes. The trad wife, hearkening back to those halcyon days of yore when women just stayed home all day watching TV, doing Pilates, and going shopping, while the man took care of annoying things like paying the bills and keeping the cars running. You know, like our grandparents and great-grandparents used to live.
  24. Like
    Vort got a reaction from Backroads in The stay-at-home girlfriend   
    In a more civilized era, this was an uncommon though not unknown phenomenon. The neighborhood men (either those local, or those who took part in the families' social group, or those related, or some combination of all three) saw to it that the abandoned wife was treated as a widow and helped out with things so that she could continue her important mission of mothering her children while the men collectively and individually picked up the responsibility of surrogate father to the children. Wasn't a perfect system, for sure, but I think it beats our modern system of the government sending a check and everyone else just keeping their distance every which way.
  25. Like
    Vort got a reaction from Backroads in The stay-at-home girlfriend   
    And from the man's point of view, why have a "kept woman"? She won't be faithful. and you don't want children with her anyway. What's the attraction? She's a money sink with no connection to you other than sex and (your) credit cards.
    I don't actually want to understand this. Some things are better just left on their own.