carlimac

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  1. Like
    carlimac reacted to estradling75 in What LGBTQ+ hath wrot   
    In the first Vision God called all the existing churches wrong... and that their creeds were an abomination.  Note the word "Abomination" that is some of the strongest language the Lord has ever used against a group people.
    Yet we often work with other churches.  Most people realize that working with some group or organization does not mean we agree, support and endorse them and everything they stand for.
    For Christmas celebrations at temple visitors center it is common for people who do not share our faith and beliefs to be a part of the program.  They might be another religious group, maybe they are a secular group, maybe they are a family.  It does not matter what they are or what they believe.  All that really matters is if they want to come celebrate the Birth of our Savior with us.
    Inviting a group of Sinners (which we all are) to come celebrate Christ with us sounds exactly like something we should be doing to me.
     
  2. Like
    carlimac reacted to anatess2 in My son is opening his mission call tomorrow.   
    Whoa.,. this is gonna be tough... I can’t argue with @JohnsonJones anymore! 
    Tacloban Mission.  That city that got wiped out by a typhoon a few years ago.  He leaves in January.
  3. Like
    carlimac reacted to cat123 in Church opposes anti conversion therapy bill   
    The sign is pure propaganda. We don't have signs saying "We love our adulterous brothers". We don't have signs saying "We love our pedophilic brothers and sisters".  All the sign signifies is indoctrination and propaganda that anyone who can't control their thoughts and feelings, that anyone who has unnatural proclivities should be coddled . . .except only a certain special group of individuals. It doesn't apply to anyone else . . .except a special group.
    I didn't say you were selling me something. I gave you 2 options.
    Figure out who you can not criticize and those are the people who hold the power.
  4. Like
    carlimac reacted to cat123 in Church opposes anti conversion therapy bill   
    I'm sure it is.  The supreme irony is the topic "the Church opposes anti-conversion therapy", when the entire purpose of the Church is about conversion therapy.
  5. Like
    carlimac reacted to cat123 in Church opposes anti conversion therapy bill   
    It's ridiculous to call out specific sins and say "we love them".  Why not have a sign that says "We love our children who are druggies", "We love our children who are bullies", "We love our children who are pregnant".
    It's pandering to the emotionally weak "woke" individuals who think that the mere profaning of words makes something true. It in effect states that prior to this sign being put up, we didn't love them.  It signifies that only by bloviating meaningless words to pander to the world that we love them.
    Until people wake up and realize the absolute stranglehold the LGBTQ+ velvet mafia has on people's thoughts, their ideas, and how they have suppressed the righteous desire to help people overcome their weaknesses, this junk will continue.  This group is sacrosanct-they are the new religion, with their priests, alcoyates and high priests. 
    It's why the story about Katie Hill is buried. She is a priestess in the new religion and cannot be touched.  As a people we have traded the One True God for a false god.  Good luck!
  6. Like
    carlimac reacted to Fether in Church opposes anti conversion therapy bill   
    Here is what I found:
    1)
    The church does not oppose banning conversion therapy, the mention explicitly that many forms of conversion therapy are extremely harmful and that the church does not practice such things. The following is a direct quote from the letter:
    "Family Services has a longstanding and express policy against using therapies that seek to "repair," "convert," or "change" sexual orientation, such as from homosexual to heterosexual. Research demonstrates that electric shock, aversion, and other analogous therapies are both ineffective and harmful to youth who experience same-sex attraction. Those, including youth, who seek therapies that constitute sexual orientation change efforts will not receive them from FS counselors. Instead, FS counselors assist youth clients in understanding sexual orientation issues in the context of their families and social networks, their expressed religious identity, and their self-determined personal goals, including those pe1iaining to their faith. Gender identity. While many issues of gender identity are not well understood, FS counselors do not provide therapies designed to change a client' s established gender identity. FS counselors assist youth clients in understanding gender identity issues, including gender dysphoria, in the context of their families and social networks, their expressed religious identity, and their self-determined personal goals, including those pertaining to their faith. FS counselors assist young children in healthy identity exploration and development. They also help parents of young children in understanding gender identity and gender dysphoria issues experienced by their children so they can appropriately assist their children in their
    identity exploration and development. Family Services supports the ability of other responsible practitioners to provide ethical treatments... "
    2)
    The proposed bill, as it stands, will protect youth (age 17 and younger) who experience same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria from incredibly harmful conversion therapy techniques. But it will ALSO prevent those same youth that ALSO wants to continue living the gospel as taught by the church from receiving professional help. They would be stuck receiving guidance from Bishops and parents (which we can all agree is far from ideal). The following is quoted from the letter from the LDSFS.
    3)
    The LDSFS has positive feelings toward the anti conversion therapy law that was proposed earlier this year. The letter says "HB 399 represents a good-faith effort to grapple with some of the fine distinctions that must be drawn. We are confident that additional discussion among stakeholders and the people' s representatives in the Legislature can produce a workable legislative solution that addresses many of the concerns raised here.
    4)
    The church is in favor of putting this bill through the legistlation to get it passed. The letter says "With respect, the Governor and DOPL should allow the Legislature to perform its constitutional function in this important policy matter."
    5)
    Lastly, here is what the church proposes the changes should be:
    "If DOPL is not convinced to leave the issue of conversion therapy to the Legislature, it should amend the Proposed Rule to clarify that each of the following practices does not fall within the definition of sexual orientation or gender identity "change efforts":
    * Therapies that assist a client in achieving the client's self-determined goal to modify or cease behaviors or expressions that the client determines are inconsistent with the client's values, or that are objectively dysfunctional or destructive. (ie allow therapists to assist youth in living the gospel dispite their homosexual / gender dysphoria)
    * Therapies that address premarital, extramarital, irresponsible, abusive, or predatory sexual activities. (ia including discussions about the Law of Chastity in therapy sessions)
    * Therapies that discuss the client' s moral or religious beliefs or practices.
    * Therapies that account for the client's capacity for sexual fluidity. (ie Discussing the potentiality of a shift in their sexuality)
    * Therapies that explore other psychological conditions as potential contributors to reported gender dysphoria. (ie suggesting that in some cases, they are not "born" that way)
    * Therapies that account for gender fluidity in children or for the likelihood that gender confusion or dysphoria in prepubescent children will desist without the need for medical interventions, including therapies that encourage a wait-and-see approach. (ie suggesting that these feelings of gender dysphoria may just be a phase of exploration and that they will cease.
    * Therapies that explore factors associated with sudden onset gender dysphoria.
    * Non-coercive, age-appropriate therapies that seek to assist a client in resolving gender dysphoria without the need for medical interventions, including counseling with parents about appropriate ways to facilitate identity exploration and
    development."
    Ultimately, the church wants to allow the youth to decide what kind of therapy they want to pursue and not be forced down the path of living a homosexual/transgender life as pushed by the current standing of this rule.
    If you want the truth, go to the source. If you want your narrative, find a website (or many) that supports it.
  7. Like
    carlimac reacted to cat123 in What LGBTQ+ hath wrot   
    You cannot be serious.
    You have a woman who came into Congress as the first openly bisexual woman who is in a throuple.  This throuple involves a thirty year old woman, a thirty year old man and a 22 year old young lady.  The young lady is a paid employee on the campaign staff of the 30 year old woman.  The older woman is elected to Congress.  She is on the following committees:
    House Armed Service Committee,   Subcommittee on Tactical Air & Land Forces, Subcommittee on Seapower and Projection Forces
    House Committee on Oversight and Reform (Vice Chair) ,Subcommittee on Environment, Subcommittee on Economic and Consumer Policy
    House Science, Space, and Technology Committee,  Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics
    Due to her position of influence she has access to classified information.  She is held up as a banner of LGBTQ+ individuals and yet she is openly having sexual relations (or put into compromising situations) with a) an EMPLOYEE!!! b) a young women.
    If it were she were a straight male, this would be a massive news story, plastered all over the news about #metoo. 
    But b/c she is LGBTQ+, you get comments like the above (basically amounts to a yeah, so what).
    Do we have ANY morals anymore in this country?
  8. Like
    carlimac reacted to CV75 in What to expect from the 2020 April general conference   
    The 1980 GC had President Kimball speaking from the Whitmer Farmhouse, where the Church was restored in the original Whitmer home.
  9. Like
    carlimac reacted to clwnuke in What to expect from the 2020 April general conference   
    My wife and I thought that maybe the General Conference would be broadcast from Palmyra, NY however the hotel rates in the area don't appear too extravagant at this point so probably not.
    Our other thought was that maybe multiple worldwide General Conferences could be held? It will be interesting to see, but the more important matter is the Saint's spiritual preparation for the Conference. That's where President Nelson's main concern seems IMHO.
  10. Like
    carlimac reacted to Jane_Doe in Youth (especially YW) changes!   
    Yes, but it does make me wonder about overloading bishops.  
    I'm also curious as to the changes they say will be announced during tonight's women's sessions.  
  11. Like
    carlimac reacted to Jane_Doe in Youth (especially YW) changes!   
    *wait*-- I haven't watch this afternoon (sick kid).    
    *Jane checks website*
    *Jane read quickly*
    *Jane doesn't completely understand*   The fixing the budget to be the way it should be, that I get.  The renaming, that I get.  The dissolving YM presidencies.. that I don't completely get.  And I'm sure that there's something else I don't even know that I don't understand. 
  12. Like
    carlimac reacted to Vort in Thoughts on new Children and Youth Initiative?   
    I've often heard this used, to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. I'm sure it's supposed to be funny and clever. Most people probably see it as such. But my hyperliteral mind takes umbrage at the thought that, if I'm comfortable (a rarity), then I'm fair game. It's as if being comfortable is itself an evil state that deserves to be upset.
    [/curmudgeon]
  13. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Thoughts on new Children and Youth Initiative?   
    My initial thoughts are that:
    1-It’s more a concept than a program. 
    2- It’s great because it’s so unstructured and can be customized per individual.  
    3- It’s going to throw some people for a loop since there is no Eagle or Medallion to work for. 
    4- I wonder if the boys will feel let down without Scouts since the program is so not rigorous. If applied, there is potential for tons of personal growth but nothing to put on a resume with the same easily recognizable brand Power as Eagle Scout,
  14. Thanks
    carlimac got a reaction from Anddenex in Thoughts on new Children and Youth Initiative?   
    My initial thoughts are that:
    1-It’s more a concept than a program. 
    2- It’s great because it’s so unstructured and can be customized per individual.  
    3- It’s going to throw some people for a loop since there is no Eagle or Medallion to work for. 
    4- I wonder if the boys will feel let down without Scouts since the program is so not rigorous. If applied, there is potential for tons of personal growth but nothing to put on a resume with the same easily recognizable brand Power as Eagle Scout,
  15. Like
    carlimac reacted to laronius in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    The problem with this therapist's approach is she can only be right in her belief if the healing power of the atonement is not real or is seriously exaggerated. In fact to say the Church's approach to helping people with same-sex attraction is actually making the problem worse is essentially saying the atonement of Jesus Christ is harmful to people. Clearly this is a case of "when they are learned they think they are wise and hearken not unto the counsels of God but set it aside supposing they know of themselves. Wherefore their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them (and their patients) not."
  16. Like
    carlimac reacted to Vort in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    And perhaps that's the point.
    Here are some random musings. We have made much ado about the Church membership outside the US exceeding 50% of the Church's total membership. But I'm starting to wonder if the Church's future in leadership lies largely outside the US, as well. God gave Utah to the Saints as a refuge in their darkest hour, and they in turn made the desert blossom as the rose. But true Zion is not merely a location; it's a state of spirit. Utah culture has certainly had its unique aspects, for good and for otherwise. I can only assume that whatever is virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy in that culture can and will be replicated in stakes around the world. As for the rest, that doesn't matter.
    The Lord taught that a seed of corn must die before it can produce its bounty. Perhaps the insular nature of the Utah community was part of a seed of grain that had to die in order to make bigger, more important things happen. The overall beneficial effect to the Church of the 2002 Olympic Games looks pretty darn small to me. But as we know, by small things are great things brought to pass.
    The essence of "liberal thought" (real liberality, not the stupidly misnamed American leftist version, so often called "progressive" without a hint of irony) is that things might be better than they are, if only we would seek for that. The essence of ""conservative thought" is that we have a good thing going here in many ways, and that only a fool would throw out the blessings we have received. The older I get, the more I feel myself pulled toward the conservative ideology. Perhaps the Spirit is leading the Lord's kingdom toward the true (not Democrap) liberal ideal. The two schools of thought need not be in conflict. In fact, it is most certain that God is both conservative and liberal, in the truthful and divine meanings of those terms. But it will require adherents of both schools to humble themselves.
  17. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from laronius in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    There are all sorts of situations in life and even biological aberrations that could cause us to feel  traumatized, depressed and even suicidal. I think my brain would light up too if I could do all the things my “natural woman” would like to do and be told I’m not breaking a commandment. But that’s just not how life works. That goes against the way the Lord has set this world up.  I believe it’s a fantasy that LGBT folks should expect to respond to their passions and not be breaking the most fundamental of God’s laws. 
    I’m sorry for the hurt that so many feel. I’m sorry they get so despondent that life doesn’t seem worth living. But here's an observation.  I have several male friends from high school who are single. I don’t know if they are gay but they are active members of the church. They have never been married and at this point (we all turned 60 this year) and chances are getting slimmer every year that they would marry if they aren't gay.  But they find joy in just life itself. One of them is the most generous, happy persons I know. He has the means to travel extensively and goes to theater and extravagant dinners often. But it’s clear that his greatest joy is in giving to others and trying to bring happiness to his friends and family. He’s gone through lots of tragedy with several brothers dying of a genetic disease. And he gets in there, rolling up his sleeves at fundraisers to find a cure. He has found some things to live for that have nothing to do with his love  life or lack thereof. . 
    I appreciate that mental health workers feel so much sympathy for LGBT people who are suicidal. But maybe instead of trying so hard to coddle them as well as convince society that we have somehow betrayed them,  and let them do their thing without judgment, their patients would be better served with a plan to get the focus off their sexual orientation, off of the way they think people are oppressing them and turn it around. They could enable them to find other sources of happiness,  find service opportunities for them, find ways for them to forget about themselves. We know that true generosity and losing ourselves in the service of others lights up the brain and warms the heart in the best way. 
  18. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from mnn2501 in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    There are all sorts of situations in life and even biological aberrations that could cause us to feel  traumatized, depressed and even suicidal. I think my brain would light up too if I could do all the things my “natural woman” would like to do and be told I’m not breaking a commandment. But that’s just not how life works. That goes against the way the Lord has set this world up.  I believe it’s a fantasy that LGBT folks should expect to respond to their passions and not be breaking the most fundamental of God’s laws. 
    I’m sorry for the hurt that so many feel. I’m sorry they get so despondent that life doesn’t seem worth living. But here's an observation.  I have several male friends from high school who are single. I don’t know if they are gay but they are active members of the church. They have never been married and at this point (we all turned 60 this year) and chances are getting slimmer every year that they would marry if they aren't gay.  But they find joy in just life itself. One of them is the most generous, happy persons I know. He has the means to travel extensively and goes to theater and extravagant dinners often. But it’s clear that his greatest joy is in giving to others and trying to bring happiness to his friends and family. He’s gone through lots of tragedy with several brothers dying of a genetic disease. And he gets in there, rolling up his sleeves at fundraisers to find a cure. He has found some things to live for that have nothing to do with his love  life or lack thereof. . 
    I appreciate that mental health workers feel so much sympathy for LGBT people who are suicidal. But maybe instead of trying so hard to coddle them as well as convince society that we have somehow betrayed them,  and let them do their thing without judgment, their patients would be better served with a plan to get the focus off their sexual orientation, off of the way they think people are oppressing them and turn it around. They could enable them to find other sources of happiness,  find service opportunities for them, find ways for them to forget about themselves. We know that true generosity and losing ourselves in the service of others lights up the brain and warms the heart in the best way. 
  19. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from lonetree in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    There are all sorts of situations in life and even biological aberrations that could cause us to feel  traumatized, depressed and even suicidal. I think my brain would light up too if I could do all the things my “natural woman” would like to do and be told I’m not breaking a commandment. But that’s just not how life works. That goes against the way the Lord has set this world up.  I believe it’s a fantasy that LGBT folks should expect to respond to their passions and not be breaking the most fundamental of God’s laws. 
    I’m sorry for the hurt that so many feel. I’m sorry they get so despondent that life doesn’t seem worth living. But here's an observation.  I have several male friends from high school who are single. I don’t know if they are gay but they are active members of the church. They have never been married and at this point (we all turned 60 this year) and chances are getting slimmer every year that they would marry if they aren't gay.  But they find joy in just life itself. One of them is the most generous, happy persons I know. He has the means to travel extensively and goes to theater and extravagant dinners often. But it’s clear that his greatest joy is in giving to others and trying to bring happiness to his friends and family. He’s gone through lots of tragedy with several brothers dying of a genetic disease. And he gets in there, rolling up his sleeves at fundraisers to find a cure. He has found some things to live for that have nothing to do with his love  life or lack thereof. . 
    I appreciate that mental health workers feel so much sympathy for LGBT people who are suicidal. But maybe instead of trying so hard to coddle them as well as convince society that we have somehow betrayed them,  and let them do their thing without judgment, their patients would be better served with a plan to get the focus off their sexual orientation, off of the way they think people are oppressing them and turn it around. They could enable them to find other sources of happiness,  find service opportunities for them, find ways for them to forget about themselves. We know that true generosity and losing ourselves in the service of others lights up the brain and warms the heart in the best way. 
  20. Like
    carlimac reacted to Traveler in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    I was here in Utah for the Olympics.  I did not talk to anyone that did not have their opinions of Utah and the Church changed for the better - significantly.  I have a brother that was quite high up in the hosting organization that is still communicating with officials from all over the world.  There were many benefits that include getting visas for missionaries much more easier.   Something few know is that the church has many corporations - at least one for every country where the church has legal members.  The church does not talk a lot about legal issues with missionaries and members in foreign countries but I understand that the Utah Olympics opened many doors (both official and unofficial) for the church and missionaries - also for tithing and fast offerings.  Just because the church does not publish (brag) a lot about progress does not mean that significant progress is not taking place.  The church was also very involved behind the scenes with the Utah Olympics - I have not heard any official statement from the church that the Utah Olympics was in any way detrimental.  
    I do not know where you and @MormonGator got the impression the Utah Olympics was so problematic - unless you have been reading the Salt Lake Tribune.  As a side note - Snowbird is currently making significant investment in expanding one of the world's largest and most diverse ski resorts - independent of any future Olympic possibilities.
     
    The Traveler
  21. Thanks
    carlimac got a reaction from Anddenex in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    I also think that it's already happening from a literal standpoint. From about the early 1990s Salt Lake valley began changing so fast. That's when we moved from Salt Lake City to Logan. Every time we visited it felt changed- not in a good way. People were pouring in from California and other high rent states due to the low price of housing, freeways became crazier to drive on, the housing market started to go nuts. We had a tiny house to sell and felt a little sheepish asking $50K for it. Then a realtor friend took us aside and told us to ask $89K . We got asking price within a week. Now that little house would list at $400K at least.  I don't have anything against Californians per se. I know a whole bunch of wonderful people who moved to Utah from there. But many move-ins  brought with them an edginess and a faster more competetive pace than was felt in my hometown before that.
    Then, as amazing as the Olympics were, suddenly Utah was on the map and was no longer a well kept secret- which resulted in more people coming with ever wordlier views and practices. I believe a lot of members of the Church in Utah started jumping on the bandwagon to capitalize on the new notoriety of our humble little state by increasing housing prices, building the ever bigger and grander mansions.  Pride!! Again, I love diversity  and don't have anything against outsiders but when they come in and gripe about the status quo and the dominant religion and start tearing apart the beautiful tapestry carefully woven together for 150 years or so, then this part of the prophecy comes true :" we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys".  As that mixing occured, wordliness increased and many members have been caught up in this quest for wealth and beauty and power that came with the interlopers that took sad advantage of the simple trust that many Utahns posessed.
    The latest evidence I've seen is that the stake I grew up in consisted of about 12-13 very full active wards. It has now been condensed to about 6 or 7  neighborhood wards with other non-english speaking wards from all over the valley sharing the buildings. One building only has one ward meeting there.  It's almost unrecognizable anymore and very sad to me. There has been a lot of turnover as the primary generation of home builders in that area have died off and their children generally can't affod to buy their parents homes. The influx is all not members of the Church.  
    Then the gay movement took hold and everything is scrambled. I know that many of my nieces and nephews left the church over that issue. My own sons left but over other things. Scary times!
  22. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from Grunt in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    There are all sorts of situations in life and even biological aberrations that could cause us to feel  traumatized, depressed and even suicidal. I think my brain would light up too if I could do all the things my “natural woman” would like to do and be told I’m not breaking a commandment. But that’s just not how life works. That goes against the way the Lord has set this world up.  I believe it’s a fantasy that LGBT folks should expect to respond to their passions and not be breaking the most fundamental of God’s laws. 
    I’m sorry for the hurt that so many feel. I’m sorry they get so despondent that life doesn’t seem worth living. But here's an observation.  I have several male friends from high school who are single. I don’t know if they are gay but they are active members of the church. They have never been married and at this point (we all turned 60 this year) and chances are getting slimmer every year that they would marry if they aren't gay.  But they find joy in just life itself. One of them is the most generous, happy persons I know. He has the means to travel extensively and goes to theater and extravagant dinners often. But it’s clear that his greatest joy is in giving to others and trying to bring happiness to his friends and family. He’s gone through lots of tragedy with several brothers dying of a genetic disease. And he gets in there, rolling up his sleeves at fundraisers to find a cure. He has found some things to live for that have nothing to do with his love  life or lack thereof. . 
    I appreciate that mental health workers feel so much sympathy for LGBT people who are suicidal. But maybe instead of trying so hard to coddle them as well as convince society that we have somehow betrayed them,  and let them do their thing without judgment, their patients would be better served with a plan to get the focus off their sexual orientation, off of the way they think people are oppressing them and turn it around. They could enable them to find other sources of happiness,  find service opportunities for them, find ways for them to forget about themselves. We know that true generosity and losing ourselves in the service of others lights up the brain and warms the heart in the best way. 
  23. Like
    carlimac reacted to Just_A_Guy in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    If it’s true that the pre-Nelson prophets were unfeeling heelish “enforcers” whereas Nelson is lovingly seeking solutions that God is ready and willing to provide (in a libertine direction, natch), then what are we to make of the fact that Nelson has openly said he IS seeking divine solutions, and that the November 2015 policy was one of them, and that the law of chastity itself is not going to change?
    This notion of solving the problem by adding men to lesbian relationships betrays either a gross misunderstanding of what lesbian women want (they don’t WANT a covenant with a man, they want a covenant—and approved sexual relations—with another woman) or else a pornified idea of what polygamy actually entailed (there was never a covenant relationship between the various women a polygamist was married to—polygamy was a series of marriages that each bound one man to one woman, not a group marriage binding one man and all his wives into a single community; and sexual threesomes or lesbian interactions between plural wives were never OK).
    Let’s not conflate “love-oriented” solutions with “sex-oriented” solutions.
  24. Thanks
    carlimac got a reaction from Midwest LDS in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    There are all sorts of situations in life and even biological aberrations that could cause us to feel  traumatized, depressed and even suicidal. I think my brain would light up too if I could do all the things my “natural woman” would like to do and be told I’m not breaking a commandment. But that’s just not how life works. That goes against the way the Lord has set this world up.  I believe it’s a fantasy that LGBT folks should expect to respond to their passions and not be breaking the most fundamental of God’s laws. 
    I’m sorry for the hurt that so many feel. I’m sorry they get so despondent that life doesn’t seem worth living. But here's an observation.  I have several male friends from high school who are single. I don’t know if they are gay but they are active members of the church. They have never been married and at this point (we all turned 60 this year) and chances are getting slimmer every year that they would marry if they aren't gay.  But they find joy in just life itself. One of them is the most generous, happy persons I know. He has the means to travel extensively and goes to theater and extravagant dinners often. But it’s clear that his greatest joy is in giving to others and trying to bring happiness to his friends and family. He’s gone through lots of tragedy with several brothers dying of a genetic disease. And he gets in there, rolling up his sleeves at fundraisers to find a cure. He has found some things to live for that have nothing to do with his love  life or lack thereof. . 
    I appreciate that mental health workers feel so much sympathy for LGBT people who are suicidal. But maybe instead of trying so hard to coddle them as well as convince society that we have somehow betrayed them,  and let them do their thing without judgment, their patients would be better served with a plan to get the focus off their sexual orientation, off of the way they think people are oppressing them and turn it around. They could enable them to find other sources of happiness,  find service opportunities for them, find ways for them to forget about themselves. We know that true generosity and losing ourselves in the service of others lights up the brain and warms the heart in the best way. 
  25. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from Traveler in A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU   
    There are all sorts of situations in life and even biological aberrations that could cause us to feel  traumatized, depressed and even suicidal. I think my brain would light up too if I could do all the things my “natural woman” would like to do and be told I’m not breaking a commandment. But that’s just not how life works. That goes against the way the Lord has set this world up.  I believe it’s a fantasy that LGBT folks should expect to respond to their passions and not be breaking the most fundamental of God’s laws. 
    I’m sorry for the hurt that so many feel. I’m sorry they get so despondent that life doesn’t seem worth living. But here's an observation.  I have several male friends from high school who are single. I don’t know if they are gay but they are active members of the church. They have never been married and at this point (we all turned 60 this year) and chances are getting slimmer every year that they would marry if they aren't gay.  But they find joy in just life itself. One of them is the most generous, happy persons I know. He has the means to travel extensively and goes to theater and extravagant dinners often. But it’s clear that his greatest joy is in giving to others and trying to bring happiness to his friends and family. He’s gone through lots of tragedy with several brothers dying of a genetic disease. And he gets in there, rolling up his sleeves at fundraisers to find a cure. He has found some things to live for that have nothing to do with his love  life or lack thereof. . 
    I appreciate that mental health workers feel so much sympathy for LGBT people who are suicidal. But maybe instead of trying so hard to coddle them as well as convince society that we have somehow betrayed them,  and let them do their thing without judgment, their patients would be better served with a plan to get the focus off their sexual orientation, off of the way they think people are oppressing them and turn it around. They could enable them to find other sources of happiness,  find service opportunities for them, find ways for them to forget about themselves. We know that true generosity and losing ourselves in the service of others lights up the brain and warms the heart in the best way.