carlimac

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  1. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Gays and the church   
    I think he was talking in general about anyone-not just David Archleta who doesn’t marry and spend the next 20-30 years of their life raising a family. That extra time NOT spent raising the kids can be used in productive and happy ways. Life doesn’t need to be considered a failure if they don’t marry! 
     I’m sure it’s not easy. The desire to be loved and to love is obviously very powerful. Archuleta has done pretty darn well filling his life with music up till lately (till COVID put the damper on public performances). For whatever reason he’s gone public lately with all this about his sexuality and whatnot. So either he’s had a setback in dealing with it, or he’s a late bloomer who has just recently decided to deal with his lack of success in dating women- and has gone so very very public with it. Because when you’re famous you can and you’ll get an avalanche of response. And if you come out of the closet to announce you’re gay and in your mind your Church has oppressed you, what you’ll mostly get is sympathy and atta boys because that’s just how things are these days. 
    When you say the Church’s response is “off” what do you mean? Can you elaborate?
  2. Like
    carlimac reacted to Traveler in Gays and the church   
    I have not seen the video - but I do not believe I would tell him anything different than I would tell anyone else about their life.  The first thing I would tell anyone is that we are all children of G-d and as such we all face a mortal "fallen" from grace trial(s) throughout our entire mortal existence.  And we are intelligent beings and intelligent beings as capable of learning - which means that we can learn and make intelligent choices.  The only reason any choice seem hard is because we make them so.
    The final thing I would tell anyone is that I am a proponent of Agency - that regardless of their choice (exercise of agency) - I will exercise my choice to love them and respect their choice according to my agency and covenants with G-d.
     
    The Traveler
  3. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from Vort in Gays and the church   
    So I’ll repeat my original motive for posting. I haven’t been active on this or any church forum for a few years. It seems the response to these LGBTQ ( what is Q anyway and how is it different from L?) posts are sooooo overwhelmingly huggy and supportive of these people. More so than it used to be. We seem to be treating them not only with kid-gloves but raining down rose petals on them.  This is even coming from very strong members (one gushy “love-you David” note came from an outwardly incredibly spiritual seminary teacher in our ward.) It took me by surprise. I understand we’re trying very hard to mitigate the rash of suicides among this group. And let them know of their value as individuals. That’s all good. But the praise and adoration heaped on them seems like it could be misinterpreted pretty easily that they simply get a pass on having to resist delving wholly into the culture and acting on it. 
     
    Since when is it ok to not deny all ungodliness? Is it now illegal among Church members to denounce same sex intimate relationships? I haven’t seen even one person in the comments say, “ if you choose to live in a gay relationship you will have to live with the consequences which may not be pleasant.” Not one!! It’s only coddling and sympathy with blame squarely on the Brethren and all the unsupportive members for his unhappiness.  Have we gone soft! Is this now what being Christ-like looks like? 😕
  4. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from NeuroTypical in Gays and the church   
    I did in a way. Not that directly. I don’t want the “feel bads” when everyone tells me off. BTDT!! But I found one comment that said “the doctrine on eternal families isn’t going to change but I still hope you can find peace and happiness. “ That was one of the most honest comments. 
  5. Haha
    carlimac got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Gays and the church   
    Doesn’t need to say it in the scriptures. It’s painfully obvious! We saw some naked women with painted on flags in Times Square. Clearly naked! 😬
  6. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from Anddenex in Gays and the church   
    So I’ll repeat my original motive for posting. I haven’t been active on this or any church forum for a few years. It seems the response to these LGBTQ ( what is Q anyway and how is it different from L?) posts are sooooo overwhelmingly huggy and supportive of these people. More so than it used to be. We seem to be treating them not only with kid-gloves but raining down rose petals on them.  This is even coming from very strong members (one gushy “love-you David” note came from an outwardly incredibly spiritual seminary teacher in our ward.) It took me by surprise. I understand we’re trying very hard to mitigate the rash of suicides among this group. And let them know of their value as individuals. That’s all good. But the praise and adoration heaped on them seems like it could be misinterpreted pretty easily that they simply get a pass on having to resist delving wholly into the culture and acting on it. 
     
    Since when is it ok to not deny all ungodliness? Is it now illegal among Church members to denounce same sex intimate relationships? I haven’t seen even one person in the comments say, “ if you choose to live in a gay relationship you will have to live with the consequences which may not be pleasant.” Not one!! It’s only coddling and sympathy with blame squarely on the Brethren and all the unsupportive members for his unhappiness.  Have we gone soft! Is this now what being Christ-like looks like? 😕
  7. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Gays and the church   
    So I’ll repeat my original motive for posting. I haven’t been active on this or any church forum for a few years. It seems the response to these LGBTQ ( what is Q anyway and how is it different from L?) posts are sooooo overwhelmingly huggy and supportive of these people. More so than it used to be. We seem to be treating them not only with kid-gloves but raining down rose petals on them.  This is even coming from very strong members (one gushy “love-you David” note came from an outwardly incredibly spiritual seminary teacher in our ward.) It took me by surprise. I understand we’re trying very hard to mitigate the rash of suicides among this group. And let them know of their value as individuals. That’s all good. But the praise and adoration heaped on them seems like it could be misinterpreted pretty easily that they simply get a pass on having to resist delving wholly into the culture and acting on it. 
     
    Since when is it ok to not deny all ungodliness? Is it now illegal among Church members to denounce same sex intimate relationships? I haven’t seen even one person in the comments say, “ if you choose to live in a gay relationship you will have to live with the consequences which may not be pleasant.” Not one!! It’s only coddling and sympathy with blame squarely on the Brethren and all the unsupportive members for his unhappiness.  Have we gone soft! Is this now what being Christ-like looks like? 😕
  8. Haha
    carlimac reacted to pam in Gays and the church   
    The problem with this example is there have been a couple of editions that they were naked and the swimsuits were painted on.
  9. Like
    carlimac reacted to The Folk Prophet in Gays and the church   
    I think this needs to be reconciled with: 
    "wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center."
  10. Like
    carlimac reacted to Just_A_Guy in Gays and the church   
    Yeah, the Tribune had an article in the last week or two about it, I think.  (I’d heard about Archuleta and Harley, though Tom Christofferson’s alleged backsliding is a new one to me.)  One wonders what the difference would be between a chaste gay “dating” relationship, versus two straight people who happen to be best friends.
    In some ways, the bigger issue is this mentality  of “how far can I indulge these appetites before it becomes a sin?”.  Whether in matters of chastity or honesty or anger or any number of other moral standards—this just isn’t a space we want to be living in. 
  11. Sad
    carlimac got a reaction from MrShorty in Gays and the church   
    Has anyone seen David Archuleta’s emotional, more than 45 minute video he posted a couple days ago on Instagram and You Tube about his struggle to reconcile his disinterest in women/being more into guys and his 31 years of being devoted to the church. He’s apparently on the edge of suicidal about it. 
     
    I feel for him. That’s tough. I still have no answers. But the thing that’s more frustrating than anything is that in the comments there are more encouraging him to leave the church, be his authentic self and know that God made him that way. Most claim to be  former members. There is a lot of the typical “ just love who you’re attracted to”. Why is it that almost no one is getting on there to encourage him to hang onto the truth and weather the storms and stay with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
     
    What would you tell him to do?
  12. Like
    carlimac reacted to JohnsonJones in Gays and the church   
    One of the things about marriage is to be happy with oneself whether or not one is married or not.
    If one is NOT happy because they are single, or because they are not married, it is very probable that being married is NOT going to be the cure for making them happy.  It may, instead, be a way to make others UNHAPPY.
    One needs to be able to be content with themselves before incorporating others into a relationship...at least in my opinion.
    In that light, whether one is gay or not, it should not matter on whether one can be happy or not.  If they are unhappy because they feel attraction to the same gender instead of the opposite gender, perhaps they are focusing on the WRONG things in life. 
    My advice in that situation, regardless of who it is, is to focus on other things that make life worthwhile.  Perhaps, work on serving others, or improving oneself, rather than trying to get others to be the crutch to do it for you.
    The way I'd suggest is to seek first the Kingdom of God, seek to be the ideal son or daughter of your Father first, and then seek other things (such as self improvement, etc). 
    That may not be the way everyone wants to go.  Find something else rather than lust, or greed, or pride, to sate one's desires, and seek instead for things that can improve yourself and others instead.  Find a hobby or reading history or books, become passionate about music, study nature and science.  There is SO much in this world where you can focus on things to find wonder and excitement rather than focusing on our base desires.  Find ways to make one happy beyond the basic focus of the world (so lust, hunger, alcohol, and other base things should not be what we try to seek out for happiness, but rather things that increase our knowledge and ability or things that help others increase their knowledge and ability).
    I find too often people define themselves by their base desires.  I do not think this is a path to happiness, and those who think this is how to define their relationships will find less fulfilling lives from them than those who find happiness within themselves and seek to spread that happiness to others.  Those who share happiness, in my opinion, will do better and have more fulfilling lives than those who try to derive it from others.
    Unfortunately, when trying to convince someone that they should seek to be happy on their own (especially, when they are so deep into the idea that the only way to be happy is if they are able to get another person, sometimes specifically a certain person, other times a certain gender or sexuality) to make them happy, they are unwilling to listen.  Nothing one would say will convince them at that point, and sometimes telling them this will only drive them deeper into depression. 
    It can be difficult, and the situation people find themselves in is a difficult one.  If they GET what they THINK they want, at times it will bring a reprieve, though this happiness may be fleeting and is HIGHLY dependent on someone else (which means, they can make you lose it just as easily) rather than being in control of yourself.  The more permanent solution is NOT to make it so that others are your source of happiness, but to be a source of happiness for yourself and for others. 
    Two individuals that are founts of happiness will not only find happiness within themselves, but also in turn will make their partners and friends much happier by default.  It is a thing which aids not only you, but others as well.
  13. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from Backroads in Gays and the church   
    Has anyone seen David Archuleta’s emotional, more than 45 minute video he posted a couple days ago on Instagram and You Tube about his struggle to reconcile his disinterest in women/being more into guys and his 31 years of being devoted to the church. He’s apparently on the edge of suicidal about it. 
     
    I feel for him. That’s tough. I still have no answers. But the thing that’s more frustrating than anything is that in the comments there are more encouraging him to leave the church, be his authentic self and know that God made him that way. Most claim to be  former members. There is a lot of the typical “ just love who you’re attracted to”. Why is it that almost no one is getting on there to encourage him to hang onto the truth and weather the storms and stay with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
     
    What would you tell him to do?
  14. Like
    carlimac reacted to laronius in Gays and the church   
    He hasn't accepted the fact that marriage and a family, within the gospel, is likely not going to happen in this life. That's a tough pill to swallow but it's one that not just people with same sex attraction have had to accept. I know some women who for various health reasons are likely to not find a spouse willing to deal with the challenges they face. As a result they are pursuing other rewarding paths in life. Is it still tough? YES. But they don't feel without hope and that seems exactly like where he is at this point, without hope. We must have faith to not just accept THE plan but also His specific plan for us whatever that may be. I feel for the guy but it sure sounds like he is not looking for help to endure but reasons to give in. I don't know what anyone, especially strangers, can say to help in this situation. We generally only see what we are looking for.
  15. Thanks
    carlimac got a reaction from Anddenex in Gays and the church   
    Has anyone seen David Archuleta’s emotional, more than 45 minute video he posted a couple days ago on Instagram and You Tube about his struggle to reconcile his disinterest in women/being more into guys and his 31 years of being devoted to the church. He’s apparently on the edge of suicidal about it. 
     
    I feel for him. That’s tough. I still have no answers. But the thing that’s more frustrating than anything is that in the comments there are more encouraging him to leave the church, be his authentic self and know that God made him that way. Most claim to be  former members. There is a lot of the typical “ just love who you’re attracted to”. Why is it that almost no one is getting on there to encourage him to hang onto the truth and weather the storms and stay with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
     
    What would you tell him to do?
  16. Like
    carlimac reacted to askandanswer in Gays and the church   
    I believe in the idea of the "customised curriculum" as taught most noticeably, but not exclusively, by Elder Neal Maxwell. I believe it is quite likely that we were closely involved in deciding what trials we would encounter in this life and that the manner in which each of us has been made is not random. David, and you, and I, may well have made an informed, perhaps even calculated, decision as to what trials we would be given the opportunity to endure in this life, we just don't remember it making that decision. This may be a viewpoint that might not be particularly helpful to David or one that is unlikely to attract his interest or attention, but that's what I believe and how I see things.
    One thing that has helped me through difficulties is to have faith in my pre-existance self that I made very good decisions, and that I made decisions on matters that would test and stretch me, but not overcome me. The pre-mortal thinking is something like "I want to grow as much as I can in mortality, or I need to grow in certain areas, therefore I will choose such and such a trial in mortality, knowing that it will provide the growth that I seek and need." And the mortal thinking, here and now, when enduring the trial is, " I believe I chose this trial for good and wise reasons, and that I can have trust in that decision, therefore I will seek for whatever it is that I believed I could learn from this trial at the time I chose to be subject to it." Summarised, it boils down to, I signed up for this, so lets make the most of it."  
  17. Like
    carlimac reacted to Fether in Gays and the church   
    I don’t think David and the many many other LGBTQ saints are looking for doctrinal explanations for what they ought to do. It seems to me that they are in immense pain, have tried everything they can to get through it, and haven’t seen the light. 
     
    It seems more to be a cry for help. David himself said that his post was more about getting things off his chest.
    I know what the prescribed doctrinal answers are… but I don’t know how to help David, and others in his situation, overcome these immense feelings he is facing. I think the best thing one can do is mourn with those that more and comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
  18. Like
    carlimac reacted to CV75 in Gays and the church   
    I have not seen the video. He evidently needs a ministering brother right now who can answer his questions and help him with his conclusions.
    Beginning with doctrine, God did not make him gay. This goes against the Church's position that we do not know the causes of why people are attracted to the same sex. The BYU 2019 valedictorian tried to assert this and it is false doctrine, which is why I think Elder Holland in his August 2021 speech to faculty, administration and student leaders used this as an example of "friendly fire." Emotionally vulnerable people need to make Christ the focus of their lives and he will carry them along.
    Another point is that nowhere does the Church promote marriage as a function of sexuality, only gender, and that only gender is an essential, eternal characteristic. Again. emotionally vulnerable people cannot easily accept the difference between sexuality and gender.
    People who cannot connect with others except through social media transactions will have a very hard time getting through their trials, and helping others with their trials without the Spirit. David has the gift of the Holy Ghost and can be grounded and settled in Christ. The depths of extremity Alma the son of Alma went through before he could find Christ were from sin, but such depths can be felt from physical and emotional pain as well, and Christ is just as ready to save.
  19. Like
    carlimac reacted to Anddenex in This seems so uncomfortable   
    Yep, this means I will be there and to some that will seem like hell...but we are both progressing and repenting.
  20. Like
    carlimac reacted to LDSGator in Is this True? Gay Electroshock Therapy within the Church   
    Obviously, it’s hideous to all decent people in 2021. I’m sure even back in 1959 some people found it disturbing.
     
    Sadly, sometimes people/institutions do heinous things like this out of ignorance because they were popular at the time. The best we can do is accept that it happened, don’t try to sweep it under the rug, and do our best to ensure that it never happens again.  
  21. Love
    carlimac reacted to person0 in Critical Race Theory - Someone (liberal) please explain   
    I can imagine that.  My wife used to be a public school teacher, so she is accustomed to the effort.  We have a dedicated homeschool room where she works her magic with the kids.  I think it is fair to say that the majority of her time as a mother is spent teaching and preparing.

  22. Like
    carlimac reacted to Just_A_Guy in Critical Race Theory - Someone (liberal) please explain   
    Indeed; redlining has been illegal since the late 1960s.  I can *sort of* see the argument that white middle class folks from better neighborhoods were able to leave their kids with a bigger inheritance which percolates down to the present day.  On the other hand, speaking anecdotally:  my parents inherited very little on their own parents’ deaths, and what they did inherit was after they were well-established in life.  The “inheritance” that really matters is cultural—a stable trauma-free childhood, two parents in the home who are both engaged in their children’s care and upbringing, and inculcation of values like respect for authority and delayed gratification and resilience and planning for the future.  
    I would acknowledge that there are still stereotypes and influences out there that mean that all other things being equal, a black person probably has to work somewhat harder to get ahead in life than a whole person does.  But don’t think that skin tone alone permanently hamstrings a black person’s ambitions in the way the critical race theorists want me to think that it does.  Rejection of traditional American cultural values that critical race theorists pooh-pooh as “whiteness”—the stuff in that infamous Smithsonian infographic, for example; like nuclear families and property rights and rational, linear thinking and independence and self-reliance and scientific method and politeness and ability to keep to a schedule and clarity in speaking and writing and judging people by their intent as well as the results of their actions (https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333)—rejection of those ideals will set you back; in any society, no matter what color your skin is.  
  23. Like
    carlimac reacted to Traveler in Critical Race Theory - Someone (liberal) please explain   
    The first step that must be taken by any individual racists promoting their brand of racism - is to convince themselves and others that the human society can (ought to or must) be divided into categories based on nothing other than race.
     
    The Traveler
  24. Like
    carlimac reacted to Carborendum in Critical Race Theory - Someone (liberal) please explain   
    These are the definitions as given in the articles.  And this is about as good as it gets.
    These definitions can actually have some beneficial educational applications.  And I'd applaud it if that were the way it is applied.
    The reality of how it has been applied is somewhat different.
    1) I believe that the history of this country certainly shows rampant examples of systemic racism.  I don't know if anyone could disagree with that statement if one knows history.
    2) I believe that we've made HUGE strides in eliminating these vestiges from our legal system.  I don't know if anyone could disagree with that statement if one knows history.
    3) I believe we cannot completely get rid of ANY stupid behavior (yes, racism is stupid.  I said it.) among humanity just like we cannot completely get rid of crime.  We keep it to a minimum and do the best we can to deal with the minimum, just deal with it as best we can.
    Question: Are we about as good as any flawed, mortal system is ever going to get?  
    ???
    The reason why we can't give clear definitions of what it would look like in schools is that it has indeed been applied differently from location to location and from teacher to teacher.  There really isn't any clear definition.  It is just the "general idea" that "systemic racism exists".  The "what do we do about that" is left out of "official definitions" because part of the strategy of implementation is to allow the imagination to run wild.  And that is where things can get weird depending on the specifics of policy and the notions of teachers and  other individuals.
    It could be as simple as "raising awareness" and let people know, "No, belittling someone because of their race is not acceptable" to "kill any white person you see in your neighborhood" (yes, that has happened because of CRT).  
    With that wide range, one would think that people should be responsible for their own interpretations. Yes.  But it is interesting how much people have their interpretations "steered" by people who don't say much.
    What do you think is the likely emotional response to people being told "There is nothing you can do.  This oppression will always be over your head.  And THOSE guys are responsible"?  If you teach it so that someone absolutely believes that, what is the natural reaction?  No manipulation there.
  25. Thanks
    carlimac got a reaction from Anddenex in David Archuleta Reveals He Is Part Of LGBTQIA+ Community   
    My question is why can some people look at attractive individuals and not feel any arousal while others look at individuals and it becomes sexual attraction? Why does it become a sexual attraction? Also how is it that some people can be so very happily married to someone who is not physically attractive and produce children with them when sexual attraction is so darned important- like so important that it defines the very labels and identity we give ourselves!? (sarcasm alert)
     
    I feel pity for David because if he decides  to lay hold onto what little attraction he has for women in order to obtain the family he wants, he will have to fight the world and community that wants him for their own. He’s kind of a meek guy. I’m not sure he’s strong enough for that fight. The cat’s out of the bag and it’s not ever getting back in!!