askandanswer
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Posts posted by askandanswer
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2 hours ago, askandanswer said:
I had to think about this for a moment. It's business as usual here today with no turkeys and no family gatherings. The only days we officially note in November are Remembrance Day, on 11 November, to remember the signing of the World War 1 armistice, which occurred at the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918, which is not a public holiday, and the first Tuesday in November in the state of Victoria, which is public holiday in that state, known as Melbourne Cup day, when the Melbourne Cup horse race is held.
I've been pushing hard for a few years now to have a National Koala Week as a week long public holiday, when we all do for a week what koalas do most of the time, which is sleep for up to 20 hours a day. So far the idea hasn't taken off yet. That hasn't stopped me from leading by example and celebrating my own koala month every second month.
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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:
Happy Thanksgiving!
I had to think about this for a moment. It's business as usual here today with no turkeys and no family gatherings. The only days we officially note in November are Remembrance Day, on 11 November, to remember the signing of the World War 1 armistice, which occurred at the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918, which is not a public holiday, and the first Tuesday in November in the state of Victoria, which is public holiday in that state, known as Melbourne Cup day, when the Melbourne Cup horse race is held.
- Carborendum and JohnsonJones
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This is a previously unmentioned political position. I wander what the relationship is between a governor and a judge or chief judge. If they are the same person it suggests that the role of the chief judges went further than simply judging
4 And it came to pass that I thus did send an embassy to the governor
f they couldn't attack the Lamanites who were in the cities, why not attack the Lamanites who were out of the cities, ie, those who were delivering supplies? Did they really have a secure supply line all the way from where these supplies started their journey up until where it ended?5 But behold, this did profit us but little; for the Lamanites were also receiving great strength from day to day,
The Lamanites have gone from being a group of people who rebelled against their king in order not to fight, to having an innumerable and growing army.yea, to contend with an enemy which was innumerable.
Why is is that none of the 2,000 newly arrived recruits could explain why their numbers were so small or explain the changed political circumstances in Zarahemla?9 And now the cause of these our embarrassments, or the cause why they did not send more strength unto us, we knew not;
Pre prayer they were fearful and discouraged, after prayer they were courageous and determined. Their circumstances before and after prayer were unchanged but they felt differently. This is the difference that prayer can make.
And we did take courage with our small force which we had received, and were fixed with a determination to conquer our enemies,
This is just a larger version of the same strategy that Antipus and Helaman used in chapter 56 and the Lamanites fell for it a second time.
Now this was done because the Lamanites did suffer their whole army, save a few guards only, to be led away into the wilderness.
I thought that around about this time the king men were in control of Zarahemla and were in league with the Lamanites. It seems as if communications between different military groups, both for the Lamanites and the Nephites were quite poor.24 And when the Lamanites saw that they were marching towards the land of Zarahemla, they were exceedingly afraid, lest there was a plan laid to lead them on to destruction;
Except for verse 21. Perhaps he means only Nephite blood.
28 without the shedding of blood.
They had just finished a march that took them towards Zarahemla. How hard would it have been to send two men on into the city to ask for more men for the army and to find out what was going on in Zarahemla?
Now we do not know the cause that the government does not grant us more strength;
This sounds almost like complete victory in this part of the land. The Lamanites didn't flee to other Nephite possessions they held, but fled all the way back to their own lands.we are in the possession of our lands; and the Lamanites have fled to the land of Nephi.
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On 11/18/2023 at 2:37 AM, Traveler said:
About 45 years ago I became involved in whitewater rafting. The reason is that I believed it to be the best family activity that I had ever encounter.
@Travelerif you ever get to an age where it becomes prudent to gradually transfer away from white-water rafting to something a little gentler and safer, but you still want the fun of a river, I recommend the Henley on the Todd Regatta, held in a southern part of our District. Rather than being a white water event its a dry water event.
Join us for the unique Henley on Todd Regatta, the world's only dry river boating event in Alice Springs, Australia! Engage in Flintstone-style 'boat' races on the sandy Todd River bed, and participate in a plethora of activities suitable for all ages.
https://www.henleyontodd.com.au/
The people of Alice Springs say that you're not considered to be a local until you've seen water flowing 3 times in the Todd River. Roughly, that equates to about 10 years.
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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:
It's not surprising. Most fortifications are extremely resource heavy.
The type of defense that Moroni came up with may seem simple in concept. But we don't really see this type of defense until the 10th century AD in Europe as a "motte and bailey". While they have similar traits (which draw comparisons) they are somewhat contrasted as well.
Jericho was a walled city a thousand years before this and the walls were so strong that it took a miracle to bring them down. Jerusalem was also a walled city prior to Lehi's departure. There were at least two occasions when these walls saved Jerusalem from destruction.
3 hours ago, Carborendum said:If there are walls on banks of earth, I don't see a way of gathering such intelligence. How do you suppose they could have done it?
Numbers 13: 16 - 20. See also Joshua 2:1
16 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the aland. And Moses called bOshea the son of cNun dJehoshua.
17 ¶ And Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan, and said unto them, Get you up athis way southward, and go up into the mountain:
18 And see the land, what it is; and the people that dwelleth therein, whether they be strong or weak, few or many;
19 And what the land is that they dwell in, whether it be good or bad; and what cities they be that they dwell in, whether in tents, or in strong holds;
20 And what the land is, whether it be fat or lean, whether there be wood therein, or not. And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now the time was the time of the firstripe grapes.
And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot’s house, named aRahab, and lodged there.
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We see here the effects of Moroni's preparations. In Alma 16 the Lamanites had no problems completely destroying Ammonihah.
The invading Lamanites are unable to take the fortified cities of Ammonihah
It sounds as though its taken the Nephites 500 years to start constructing decent protections for their cities.And behold, the city had been rebuilt, and Moroni had stationed an army by the borders of the city, and they had cast up dirt round about to shield them from the arrows and the stones of the Lamanites;
I'm sure if would have been an easy thing for the Lamanites to evaluate the strength of the city before sending an army to attack it. This is a significant lack of basic military foresight or planning.and because the Lamanites had destroyed it once because of the iniquity of the people, they supposed that it would again become an easy prey for them.
It seems unwise to take an oath without a more informed understanding of the situation about which you are taking an oath.nevertheless their chief captains had sworn with an oath to attack the city; therefore, they brought up their armies.
No sign of grief at the loss of so many men who had given their lives trying to do what he commanded. This would have been an excellent opportunity for his soldiers to kill him.And it came to pass that he was exceedingly angry with his people,
I'm not sure what is meant by this statement, or what we should take it to mean. Three chapters ago, and within the same year - 72BC - the Nephites were killing other Nephites who were politically opposed to them, there had been a major division within their society, with many breaking away, and now they were dealing with a major Lamanite invasion.Yea, and there was continual peace among them,
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5 hours ago, zil2 said:
IMO, not that puzzling. The Lord is often "slow to hear" those who have only recently begun to repent after a period of prolonged wickedness. Alma (the elder) and those converted by him had previously been engaged in significant sin. And the Lord didn't leave them in bondage long.
It's a puzzling contrast between Alma and his people and King Lamoni and his people who were prospered very quickly even though they had been in a state of greater wickedness for a longer period than Alma's people.
5 hours ago, zil2 said:I disagree. The political leader (Pahoran) was overwhelmed by traitors seeking to overthrow the government and establish a kingdom - and what better time to try such a tactic than when the military are away fighting a war? (Though I guess the leaders of those traitors were judges, so we could call them part of the political leadership.)
I think that requiring the military to prop up or restore your government, not once, but twice, in five years, is indicative of a failure by the civil government
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It seems as if the difference between how Amalickiah and the previous king tried to do the same thing - raise up an army to attack the Nephites - is that the previous king sought to do it just by commanding the people whereas Amalickiah took the necessary preparatory step of appointing propagandists to influence the opinions of the people.
he began to inspire the hearts of the Lamanites against the people of Nephi; yea, he did appoint men to speak unto the Lamanites from their towers, against the Nephites.
No pretense of an idealogical, political or religious motivation, just a plain old grab for power.2 he sought also to reign over all the land, yea, and all the people who were in the land
I guess this speaks to the importance of an independent media.for he had hardened the hearts of the Lamanites and blinded their minds, and stirred them up to anger,
I think it was only a few chapters back where there was an indication that there were far more Nephites than Lamanites.because of the greatness of the number of his people
So a former Nephite is appointing Zoramites to lead a Lamanite army. It seems as if the Lamanites were content to be used as cannon fodder.5 And thus he did appoint chief captains of the Zoramites
The tactics are similar. Both Moroni and Amalickiah used deliberate and calculated approaches to prepare the minds of the people and both killed others to further their purposes (Alma 46:35). The ends are different with one seeking for power and the other trying to protect.7 Now it came to pass that while Amalickiah had thus been obtaining power by fraud and deceit, Moroni, on the other hand, had been preparing the minds of the people to be faithful unto the Lord their God.
We need more Moronis.Yea, a man whose heart did swell with thanksgiving to his God, for the many privileges and blessings which he bestowed upon his people; a man who did labor exceedingly for the welfare and safety of his people.
This is why Mosiah 23 is so puzzling.God would prosper them in the land, or in other words, if they were faithful in keeping the commandments of God that he would prosper them in the land; yea, warn them to flee, or to prepare for war, according to their danger;
This is the perfect combination - a man of Moroni's patriotism, faithfulness and military skills, coupled with the righteousness and faithfulness of Helaman and his brethren. With this kind of leadership and preparation its kind of surprising that the coming war lasted as long as it did. As we shall see, the military and religious leadership were let down by the political/civil leadership.19 Now behold, Helaman and his brethren were no less serviceable unto the people than was Moroni; for they did preach the word of God, and they did baptize unto repentance all men whosoever would hearken unto their words.
This reminds me of US foreign policy before 7 December 1941 - a reluctance to engage in warfare, and only choosing to do so when it became a necessity.Now, they were sorry to take up arms against the Lamanites, because they did not delight in the shedding of blood; yea, and this was not all—they were sorry to be the means of sending so many of their brethren out of this world into an eternal world, unprepared to meet their God.
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6 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:
According to R.C. Sproul, when Peter asked Jesus how many times he should forgive, Jesus essentially told him, “As many times as it takes”
This is great news! It looks like I can get rid of the sin tracker and that I won't need JAG
- Just_A_Guy and prisonchaplain
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12 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:
Jesus forgives 70X7
hmm, based on my age, life expectancy and frequency of sin I think I'd better cut back a bit on the slothfulness and gluttony for a while, I’m getting a bit too close to 70 X 7. It looks like I can safely afford to start being more wrathful and envious. If I can get @Just_A_Guy to represent me at the crucial moment, maybe I won't even need to cut back on the sloth.
- zil2 and prisonchaplain
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5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:
In reviewing my last post, I realized that I got to preaching. Occupational hazard, I guess. 😉
@prisonchaplain I think as long as we have people on here like @Carborendum and @LDSGatorperhaps you could consider doubling your preaching or using the "extra strength" version.
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Using treachery, murder and intrigue are common techniques in somes times and places to gain power but Amalickiah demonstrated particular skill in the use of these techniques by becoming king of a people who were the enemy of the people from whence Amalickiah came.
Amalickiah uses treachery, murder, and intrigue to become king of the Lamanites
This is a bit surprising. Usually the Lamanites seemed willing to battle against the Nephites at the drop of a a hat.2 And it came to pass that when the proclamation had gone forth among them they were exceedingly afraid;
It seems to be a rash move to give command of part of your armies to someone who has only recently made the move from the land of the enemy.And it seems like the king is not too interested in what his people think or feel. I'm a bit surprised that the king gave more weight to the words and wishes of one traitorous dissenter than he gave to the wishes of the majority of his people.And now it came to pass that the king was wroth because of their disobedience; therefore he gave Amalickiah the command of that part of his army which was obedient unto his commands, and commanded him that he should go forth and compel them to arms.
It seems like the Lamanite king was a bit out of touch with his people.And it came to pass that they would not, or the more part of them would not, obey the commandments of the king.
They kept their weapons in one particular place? This seems a bit inconvenient, particularly if they were ever needed in a hurry.therefore they fled to Onidah, to the place of arms.
So they go to Onidah to get their weapons and then they go to another place for battle. If this is typical of their military practices it would help to explain why they so frequently lose to the Nephites.And it came to pass that they had gathered themselves together upon the top of the mount which was called Antipas, in preparation to battle.
Amalickiah used the king's lust for power and control to end the king's power and control and life. The king (supposedly) loaned some of his power to Amalickiah in the form of control over part of his army in the hope or the intention that Amalickiah would use that power to gain control over that part of the population that was resisting him and he would then use all his population to gain control over all the Nephites as well. In the end, his lust for power led to the loss of his life. Clever Amalickiah, dumb king. And eventually, the same thing happened to Amalickiah, for the same reason, but only after years of war and death. Dumb Amalickiah. I think there are some lessons I can learn here if I ever choose to go into politics
Now it was not Amalickiah’s intention to give them battle according to the commandments of the king; but behold, it was his intention to gain favor with the armies of the Lamanites, that he might place himself at their head and dethrone the king and take possession of the kingdom.
If Amalickiah had seriously intended to engage the Lamanites in battle he probably would have chosen a better place to pitch their tents. In the valley, below the mountain occupied by the people you are supposed to attack doesn't sound like a good place.And behold, it came to pass that he caused his army to pitch their tents in the valley which was near the mount Antipas.
Amalickiah's persistence, the fact that these communications were happening in secrecy, at night, and the fact that Amalickiah was offering to give up his men should have been enough to signal to Lehonti that something suspicious was happening.and he sent again the fourth time his message unto Lehonti, desiring that he would come down, and that he would bring his guards with him.
Now if Lehonti thought in the same way as Amalickiah, this was the perfect time for Lehonti to kill Amalickiah. He lost his opportunity to do so and was himself killed.16 And it came to pass that he delivered his men, contrary to the commands of the king.
Lehonti failed to look a gift horse in the mouth.And it came to pass that Amalickiah caused that one of his servants should administer poison by degrees to Lehonti, that he died.
think a wise king would have retained his own secret intelligence sources within the army as a means of getting reliable information about the activities of his military leaders.And the king came out to meet him with his guards, for he supposed that Amalickiah had fulfilled his commands, and that Amalickiah had gathered together so great an army to go against the Nephites to battle.
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My Branch no longer zooms our services but the neighbouring branch which uses the same chapel continues to do so because their branch boundaries stretch out a few hundred kilometers. And I think all our baptismal services are streamed to the Mission Office, although not the actual baptism. We streamed a funeral a few weeks back. I think, but I'm not sure, that these services are streamed live and not recorded.
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Does anyone know anything about this? I thought the church generally discouraged the use of cameras inside chapels for Sunday services.
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8 hours ago, laronius said:
I think you make a good point. Apostasy has led the Jews to be stripped of their inheritance on multiple occasions.
Abraham 6:6 But I, Abraham, and Lot, my brother’s son, prayed unto the Lord, and the Lord appeared unto me, and said unto me: Arise, and take Lot with thee; for I have purposed to take thee away out of Haran, and to make of thee a minister to bear my name in a strange land which I will give unto thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession, when they hearken to my voice.
I think the current conflict is in fact a result of their disobedience long, long ago which allowed other people to take possession of the land. But it is still the land of their inheritance and the place they are prophetically expected to gather to. So we can label that situation however we want to but there are definite promises made to the House of Israel concerning that land that have not been made to other peoples.
The promise
a strange land which I will give unto thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession,
The condition
when they hearken to my voice.
The promise:
9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a apromise, that binasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall cprosper upon the face of this land; and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves. And if it so be that they shall dkeep his commandments they shall be blessed upon the face of this land, and there shall be none to molest them, nor to take away the land of their einheritance; and they shall dwell safely forever.
THe breach of promise
20 And it came to pass that I beheld, and saw the people of the seed of my brethren that they had overcome my seed; and they went forth in multitudes upon the face of the land.
11 And when they had gone through and hewn down aall my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.
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This is an issue that puzzles me. My understanding is that God's gift of the land of Israel to the Jews was heavily dependent on a number of important conditions as set out in the Law of Moses. The Jews abandoned some of the central aspects of that law more than a thousand years ago and they have been practicing a false religion, worshipping an incorrect concept of God for even longer. Practicing a false religion or practicing a religion falsely was a contributing factor to the Jews losing the land under the Babylonian exile. In more recent times I would have thought that the Jews abandonment of the conditions on which the gift was made meant that the promise was no longer in place, in much the same way that the Jaredites and Nephites also lost the lands that had been conditionally given to them. Without that claim of divine entitlement, Jewish claims on the land of Israel are no weaker or stronger than other groups occupying that land.
I have no doubt that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. I am confident that that gift was conditional. I don't believe the Jews have abided by those conditions. So, as stated in the fine print of the deal between God and Moses, failure to meet the conditions on which the gift was given has led to the deal being revoked and the deal is now off. That doesn't mean that the Jews have no right to that land. But I think it means that they can't claim a divine right.
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This happened 72 years before the birth of Christ. Its interesting that the name was Christian rather than Christite. In Jeruslame, it didn't happen until after His death.
True believers are called Christians
Given the prominent role of the tribe of Joseph in the restoration I think much more than a remnant was preserved.
A remnant of Joseph will be preserved
This sounds extreme. Its like killing someone over a difference in political or religious beliefs.
Those who will not support the cause of freedom are put to death.
This is another example of religious preaching causing deep social/political divisions. It really makes me think more about the idea that preaching the word is a good way to resolve social/political disunity. In somes cases it seems to but in other cases it just seems to make things worse.
We see later in this chapter, in verse 35, that this is exactly what Moroni did. One difference here is that Amalickiah and his supporters wanted to kill those who were opposed to them, and Moroni actually did kill or cause to be killed, those who were opposed to him.they were exceedingly wroth, insomuch that they were determined to slay them.
It might not be too far-fetched to trace Amalickiah's rise to political power, and the years of death and warefare that followed, to his leadership of those who were opposed to the preaching of the workd.
3 Now the leader of those who were wroth against their brethren was a large and a strong man; and his name was Amalickiah.
The strategy for those seeking power seems to be to appeal to the many people who have a small amount of power and encourage them to support a person's bid to become all-powerful, and if that person is sucessful in their bid, that person will then increase the power of those who previously only held a small amoutn of power.And they had been led by the flatteries of Amalickiah, that if they would support him and establish him to be their king that he would make them rulers over the people.
I suspect there is a connection between, on the one hand, the speed with which these people turned from good to bad, and on the other hand, the efficacy of their religious teachers, priests, and practices. I suspect that better teachers and leaders might have been able to slow this turn.
Thus we see how quick the children of men do forget the Lord their God, yea, how quick to do iniquity, and to be led away by the evil one.
Would the early assassination of Amalickiah meet the test outlined in 1st Nephi 4? His early death may have prevented the deaths of tens of thousands.
Yea, and we also see the great wickedness one very wicked man can cause to take place among the children of men.
One man was all it took to undo the work of many, many priests and teachers and the long-established religious and political structures that held Nephite society together? Perhaps those structures had shallow roots or were planted in poor soil or they were not well cared for.
Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly;
It seems as though Moroni had concluded that the preaching by Helaman and his brethren was no longer sufficient to unite the nation and protect the people and that force of arms would be required. They moved from relying primarily on the word to reliance on the sword. But then, we also see that this man of arms relied on God, as evidenced by his mighty prayer.
And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land
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It looks like I need to pay closer attention to the readings for the week. I remembered that this week started with Alma 40, yesterday, so I figured that todays' reading, without checking, would be Alma 41 and that's what I read this morning.
The happiness may indeed be endless but I anticipate that there will be different degrees of happiness. We will probably all feel happy but will everybody feel as happy as everybody else?I think its only a tiny minority who will come forth to endless misery.In the Resurrection men come forth to a state of endless happiness
There are certainly times when wickedness seems like happiness. A lot of people seem to enjoy their wickedness. This is referred to in Proverbs 9: 16 - 1816 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,17 Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.In the Resurrection men come forth to a state of endless happiness or endless misery—Wickedness never was happiness
This is imprecise. In a well-lived life, throughout that life, a person should be consistently and successfully working to change characteristics and attributes, to develop new ones and discard old ones. Presumably the ones we end up with after the resurrection are the ones we had at the time of death rather than the ones we had earlier in life.Every person receives again in the Restoration the characteristics and attributes acquired in mortality.
It seems like the resurrection, and associated events, must have been quite a topic of discussion amongst some of Alma's associates.for behold, some have wrested the scriptures, and have gone far astray because of this thing.
This verse might provide some insight into an aspect of justice. Alma here seems to be saying that it is a requirement of justice that the soul of man be restored to its body. This restoration is part of the deal that was agreed to between God and His spirit children that we now call the Plan of Salvation. The implication of what Alma is saying is that if there is any variation from the Plan of Salvation, any change to the deal that has been agreed to, such as the soul, or more correctly, the spirit, not being restored to the body, that would be unjust. This suggests that there are some aspects of justice that are local and variable, and relative to a specific set of circumstances, rather than justice being absolute and unchanging. If there had been no Plan of Salvation, then it would have been not unjust for there to be no restoration of spirit to body. However, there is a plan, based on an agreement between God and His spirit children, and because as part of this agreement our bodies and spirits will be restored and reunited, then it would be unjust if this restoration did not happen. So the unjustness stems from not keeping one's word, possibly with little or no regard to the specifics of what the deal actually is. If we took things a little further, perhaps we could look at this as an example of how God interacts with the universal law that even He is subject to. Perhaps the universal law says you have to keep your word, but its up to you, in your own local and specific context, ie, for this God, in this universe, and under this particular plan of salvation, to decide what your word is. Ether 3:12 might offer some support for this idea:12 And he answered: Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie.2 I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God; for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Behold, it is requisite and just, according to the power and resurrection of Christ, that the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every part of the body should be restored to itself.
In the same sentence, Alma refers to two different criteria by which we will be judged. He starts off by saying we will be judged according to our works. And then he immediately adds that we will be judged according to our works and the desires of our heart. So if we are judged according to our works and our desires, why did Alma start this sentence by suggesting that we will be judged only according to our works? Did the second part of the sentence, where he mentions about being judged according to the desires of our heart come to him as inspiration, as a prompting from the Spirit while he was in the act of talking? Or was it perhaps added when the record was being written, or engraved?3 And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good,
This is interesting. According to verse 3 we are judged according to our works and our desires, if they are good. In verse 4, when it talks about those whose works have been evil, there is no reference to desires.4 And if their works are evil they shall be restored unto them for evil.
It sounds like everyone gets what they both want and deserve. If we all get what we want, I don't see why one kingdom is considered to be better than another.The focus of this verse is on desires rather than actions.5 The one raised to happiness according to his desires of happiness, or good according to his desires of good; and the other to evil according to his desires of evil; for as he has desired to do evil all the day long even so shall he have his reward of evil when the night cometh.
There are several verses in here referring to the importance of desires in the judgement process.6 If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days,
Joseph Smith used very similar terminology for describing a very similar situation. Here, Alma is describing those who will be delivered from that endless darkness of night. In doing so he uses the phrase "These are they." In Doctrine and Covenants Joseph Smith describes those who will receive the various degrees of glory. In doing so he repeatedly uses the phrase "they are they."7 These are they
There seems to be many different ideas floating around about the final judgement. Here, Alma is suggesting that we will judge ourselves. Elsewhere in the Book of Mormon, in 3rd Nephi, we are taught that the people of the American continent at this time period will be judged by the 12 disciples who Jesus chose, who in turn will be judged by the 12 apostles He chose in Jerusalem. And in other places it is suggested that Christ will be doing the judging. More recently, in his closing address during the Sunday afternoon session of October 2023 General Conference President Nelson suggested that we make our own decisions about where we will end up after this life.Doctrine and Covenants 56:4 would seem to suggest otherwise. Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.Perhaps the fact that Alma 41:8 is talking about decrees, and Doctrine and Covenants 56:4 is talking about commands makes something of a difference.Or perhaps the reason why some need to be revoked is because they are unalterable. Maybe decrees or commands can be revoked or replaced but not altered.8 Now, the decrees of God are unalterable;
This is another example of imprecision. How much sin does it take before it can be said that one is wicked? It seems to be that there is an ability to repent in between death and judgement. No person is perfect, or without sin at the time of death, but no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven and God cannot look on any sin with the least degree of allowance. So somewhere along the way there must be a way of removing through repentance, the sins we are guilty of at the time of death.I think this is interesting. I believe that most, and more likely all, who inherit the telestial kingdom will be both sinful and happy. They are unlikely to be as happy as they who inherit a kingdom of greater glory, but I think that neither are they likely to be unhappy. I think that they who inherit the telestial kingdom will be restored from sin to a degree of, or form of, happiness.10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.
There might be something tricky going on here with the way Alma is defining and using the word restoration. These verses, to me, seem to suggest that Alma is defining the use of the word restoration to mean to bring something back to its original condition, without any change. Alma in these verses seems to be talking about a restoration of our character, our personality, our traits and behaviours and desires. He is saying that whatever our character, personality, etc, we have now in mortality will be restored to us in the resurrection. In these verses, the restoration is used to refer to a process of returning like to like. I'm comfortable with that use of the word restoration. However, previously in this chapter, in verse 2 he used the word restoration to refer to the body being restored to the soul. This is inconsistent with how he has used or defined the word restoration in these verses because the body to which the soul is being restored is a resurrected body, different in many key ways from the body which we have in mortality. The way Alma uses the word restoration in verse 2 - to describe the joining of spirit to an immortal, resurrected body - is different from how he has used it in these verses - to describe a situation of returning like to like, with a continuation of the same characteristics from mortality into immortality.And now behold, is the meaning of the word restoration to take a thing of a natural state and place it in an unnatural state, or to place it in a state opposite to its nature?13 O, my son, this is not the case; but the meaning of the word restoration is to bring back again evil for evil, or carnal for carnal, or devilish for devilish—good for that which is good; righteous for that which is righteous; just for that which is just; merciful for that which is merciful.
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Its always a numbers game. Saving 5 or 4 or 3 or 2 lives at the cost of killing one is a simple decision to make if the alternative is killing five or 4 or 3 or 2 lives to save one. Its a no brainer unless you're the man on the lever. Fortunately not having a brain is one of the benefits of AI because it doesn't have to deal with all the messy emotional aspects that come with having a brain. And if you are the man on the lever, well I hope you are very well paid for those rare moments when you may have to make a life and death decision.
Just a random thought - wouldn't it be interesting if there was a direct correlation between the price you paid for the AI controlled car and the quality of the software that drove the car? The high priced cars get software that always puts driver protection above every other consideration and cheaper cars get software that always follows the road rules no matter what. I guess we already have a version of that with higher priced cars like Volvo and Mercedes offering much more safety and protection than lower priced cars such as Toyota or Chevrolet.
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What did the Lord mean by this verse? I thought by the time this revelation was given, in 1839, many former close friends of Joseph had betrayed him, contended with him, and charged him with transgression.
10 Thou art not yet as Job; thy afriends do not contend against thee, neither charge thee with transgression, as they did Job.
- Just_A_Guy and Anddenex
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14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:
There once... was a house... down in New Orleans...
Thanks Carb, this is the last clue that I needed to confirm my calculations about the location of the land of Antionum.
- zil2 and Carborendum
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3 hours ago, Jamie123 said:
32: This is the passage I was referring to a few weeks ago, when I wrongly connected it with Abinadi and King Noah. I do remember one of the missionaries reading it to me but I never had it in its proper context before today. (I somehow imagined the people being preached to had been cast out of the synagogues for their sins.) It is odd though that the poor people are truly humble and not angry and resentful towards the rich.
This is quite a famous, well-known and frequently used chapter among members and missionaries. Of all the chapters in all the scriptures, this is the one that is used the most to explain the nature and development of faith. Missionaries love to use this chapter when meeting with people seeking to learn more about the church.
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On 11/6/2023 at 1:12 PM, Backroads said:
Oh my goodness. I actually experienced it this morning so I can totally have an opinion. I usually sleep right through it. But I was curious to whether or not I truly had experienced it so I sat watching my phone for like 15 minutes to see what happened after 1:59 am.
Was it entertaining? Eh...
@Backroads, you can't do this to me, you've got me sitting on the edge of my seat and now I'm probably scaring @Vort
On 11/8/2023 at 3:34 AM, Vort said:People who live on the edge like this frighten me.
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 1:59?!?!?!
Break
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
in General Discussion
Posted
And for those who live downunder where everything is upside down, its 11/11/11