askandanswer

Footnote 46 of chapter 9 of Nauvoo: A place of peace, a people of promise states:
 46. The Prophet's journal kept by Willard Richards (May 1-9, 1843, Church Archives) does not mention the plates. A report that the plates described a descendant of an Egyptian Pharoah was inserted in the History of the Church (5:372) from William Clayton's personal diary and is thus less reliable than a direct dictation (Clayton, Journals, 100, entry of May 1, 1843; Allen, Trials of Discipleship, 117).
This supports the post from @bytebear that the statement about what the plates said came not from Joseph Smith, but from William Clayon. This, to me, suggests a reason for being cautious about how much weight we can place on it. 

Please note the following:
 
The History of the Church as been found to have used these flawed techniques.  As I understand it, the Joseph Smith Papers project has already revealed various errors including that some material from Church history is actually undocumented or poorly documented.  In other words, it can't be entirely trusted.  Note that what's found on BYU's site may be for educational purposes and cannot be taken as official Church publications / assertions.  You won't find that compilation on LDS.org - because, I assume, it's not official Church material, despite claims it was done "for the Church" - though I'm sure it's in the Church History Library - which is not entirely digitized (and is likely so large it never will be).
Here are some things I know:
1) The Spirit has never said word one to me about William Clayton, nor about the historic (let alone spiritual) accuracy of the 7 volumes known as History of the Church.  Of course, I've never asked and see no reason to ask (see #2).
2) The Spirit has testified to me repeatedly and beyond doubt or denying that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.  One of those times, it was in a fashion which was so overwhelming that trying to relate it in words over the internet cannot do it anything close to justice.  I have described it as the Spirit shouting at me - not because there was loud volume, but because the experience was powerful and sure.  Similar feelings come back to me any time I think of Joseph Smith, and overwhelm me every time I listen to or try to sing the words of "Praise to the Man" (words)  (video).  I testify that every word of that hymn teaches truth.  Were you in my physical presence and in a state to feel the Spirit, and I could testify of these things, I believe you would feel the Spirit confirming the truth of my testimony.  I know it to be true, beyond any doubting.  (NOTE: I have as strong a testimony about God, Christ and his Atonement, the Church, the Book of Mormon, all the other scriptures, modern prophet and apostles, the plan of salvation, etc. - I mention this lest you think I'm hanging everything on Joseph Smith - I'm not.)
3) #2 makes the kinderhook plates less than irrelevant.  It doesn't matter whether William Clayton had a brain fart, whether Joseph Smith was deceived into thinking he translated those plates, or whether he tried and failed or only managed a character or two, or whether he said what he thought was true and later found out he was wrong.  (I personally won't believe JS knowingly lied about those plates until / unless the Spirit, or God, or Joseph himself tell me so.)  My experience in #2 is undeniable, and undeniably makes Joseph Smith a prophet of God.  As the hymn teaches, Joseph Smith now mingles with Gods.
I recommend studying this page about acquiring spiritual knowledge and its related scriptures.

(Speaking my own personal thoughts)
I'm not making any excuses here.  I'd rather acknowledge facts:
- The Kinderhook Plates themselves were a forgery.  Joseph and others desired to have them translated.  I'm not denying these facts.  
- There is historical uncertainty as to which actual translation happened / how it happened (codexing or not).  I don't know everything involved with it, nor can I or any other mortal know.  I'm not denying these facts.    Joseph could have made a big error and overstepped his bounds.  I'm not denying that possibility.  But I'm also night denying other possibilities.  I'm acknowledging the fact that I don't know.
- I do know that God can works His wonders with flawed people.  People who have point blank denied they knew Christ- not just once, but three times.  People who when God personally commands them to do things they make lame excuses like "I'm a slow talker".  People who have literally lied about God.  People who's go so far away that God needs to reprimand them with a talking asses or getting swallowed by a whale.  People who get drunk, dance around naked, and then curse their sons.  And so many more!
- Conversely, obviously I do know that being a flawed person doesn't automatically make you an instrument of God.
- We are not to idolize men.
 
Next round of facts I know:
- Who does know what happened: God.  Who is supposed to judge Joseph with His infinite Knowledge, Justice, and Mercy: God.
- Who is commanded supposed to judge another, and not to try to steal God's judgement throne: Me.   It is not my place to judge another.  It is my place to listen to God and follow Him.
 
 
 
So what do I do, not as not to deny facts: I get on my knees and ask God what His judgement is, and what He would have me do.  I will fait out admit the Kinderhook Plates through me for a "what the heck" moment (which was much longer than an single moment).  The answer I personally* received after prayer/contemplation was that men (including Joseph) made mistakes here.  Big ones.  Who / what specifically I don't need to know because I'm not the judge.  But men's folly does not stop God's wonders.  And I do believe that the Book of Mormon is a wonder of God.  I believe that the LDS church is a wonder of God.  The Gospel and Plan of Salvation... frankly, that miraculous knowledge of the restored Gospel literally yanked me out of the valley of death-- no other power could have done that.  The beliefs of the creeds... frankly I would have died with that.  My very life, every minute I breathe, is His miracle and testimony of His restoration.
I can't deny facts- I can't deny that this is His Gospel, so here I am- happily LDS.  I also can't deny that Jospeh made mistakes.  But.. frankly my testimony is NOT rooted in Joseph or any other man- for me, to put down such roots would be downright ideal worship of a man.  Same with rooting in people like Esther, Timothy Isaiah, or King Benjamin (who I super-super-super admire as being great great people who I don't see any fault in).  Rather, I build my testimony on Christ.
 
*Stressing this is my personal answer/perspective, respecting that others have come to other conclusions.  

Many people make a big deal about wanting truth, and I totally get why people do this, I myself have done so and still do so.
But we need to remember that the purpose of this life is not about how many facts we can uncover.
The purpose of our lives here on Earth is to test our Faith.  Will we act in faith or will we lose faith?
In the Scripture Paul tells us we See through a Glass Darkly.  I have taken this to mean that the Truths of God are by design held back until after the trial of our faith.  Until after we by our words, thoughts and actions we make our choice.
Case in point those that chose to believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God find plenty of evidence and facts to convince them that it is true.  Those that choose to believe that Joseph Smith is a con of some kind find plenty of evidence and facts to convince them that it is true.  But put them in the same room to share their evidences and facts and they will quickly find that the other side thinks their evidences and facts to be nothing of the sort.  Yet both will claim to ardently have discovered the "Truth"
God could easily declare from on high all the Truth... but that would negate the whole point.
Instead we struggle,  we study, we pray, and we make choose while (hopefully) seeking to follow his will.  Because that is the purpose of our lives here

Footnote 46 of chapter 9 of Nauvoo: A place of peace, a people of promise states:
 46. The Prophet's journal kept by Willard Richards (May 1-9, 1843, Church Archives) does not mention the plates. A report that the plates described a descendant of an Egyptian Pharoah was inserted in the History of the Church (5:372) from William Clayton's personal diary and is thus less reliable than a direct dictation (Clayton, Journals, 100, entry of May 1, 1843; Allen, Trials of Discipleship, 117).
This supports the post from @bytebear that the statement about what the plates said came not from Joseph Smith, but from William Clayon. This, to me, suggests a reason for being cautious about how much weight we can place on it. 

So when you read and pray about the Book of Mormon you feel good and peaceful and calm and sure. I think you feel that way because it is true and the Spirit is confirming to you that it is true.
So when you read about the CES letter and the Kinderhook plates you feel doubt, confusion and uncertainty. Do you think a plausible reason for those feelings might be because what you are reading is not true? The Spirits gives light and peace, the opposition tends to darkness and confusion. 
It seems to me as if your husband is stretching the boundaries of your agreement. My recollection is that you and he would both study about Catholicism and Mormonism for 18 months but what he has given you is much more to do with anti-Mormonism rather than Mormonism. How would he feel about bringing anti-Catholic material to your study sessions?

There's a real battle going on for your soul right now. What does your soul/heart say/feel about this?
it can be remarkable how quickly and completely a seemingly solid argument can be blown away by the smallest whisper of the Spirit. 

@Blossom76 I've just done a quick search on gospelink.com on the kinderhook plates. Many references came up. I only read the first one. Its very brief, from Encyclopedia of Mormonism. This iswhat it says. I encourage you to have a good look through what many references on gospelink.com
Kinderhook Plates
In April 1843 some alleged New World antiquities were presented to Joseph Smith for his opinion. The six 2 7/8-by-2 1/4-inch bell-shaped brass plates with strange engravings were reported to have been excavated in Kinderhook, Illinois, about seventy miles south of Nauvoo (HC 5:372-79). They were shown to Smith because of his claim to have translated the Book of Mormon from ancient gold plates taken from a New York hill in 1827.
The Kinderhook plates created a stir in Nauvoo; articles appeared in the Church press, an illustrated handbill was published, and some Latter-day Saints even claimed Joseph Smith said he could and would translate them. No translation exists, however, nor does any further comment from him indicating that he considered the plates genuine. After his assassination in June 1844, the incident was largely forgotten. Decades later two of the alleged discoverers announced that the plates were a hoax; an attempt to discredit Smith. By then, however, the Church was headquartered in Utah and little attention was paid to these strange disclosures.
Interest was kindled again in 1920 when the Chicago Historical Society acquired what appeared to be one of the original Kinderhook plates. Later the Chicago plate was subjected to a number of nondestructive tests, with inconclusive results. Then in 1980, the Chicago Historical Society gave permission for destructive tests, which were done at Northwestern University. Examination by a scanning electron microscope, a scanning auger microprobe, and X-ray fluorescence analysis proved conclusively that the plate was one of the Kinderhook six; that it had been engraved, not etched; and that it was of nineteenth-century manufacture. There thus appears no reason to accept the Kinderhookplates as anything but a frontier hoax.

So when you read and pray about the Book of Mormon you feel good and peaceful and calm and sure. I think you feel that way because it is true and the Spirit is confirming to you that it is true.
So when you read about the CES letter and the Kinderhook plates you feel doubt, confusion and uncertainty. Do you think a plausible reason for those feelings might be because what you are reading is not true? The Spirits gives light and peace, the opposition tends to darkness and confusion. 
It seems to me as if your husband is stretching the boundaries of your agreement. My recollection is that you and he would both study about Catholicism and Mormonism for 18 months but what he has given you is much more to do with anti-Mormonism rather than Mormonism. How would he feel about bringing anti-Catholic material to your study sessions?

There's a real battle going on for your soul right now. What does your soul/heart say/feel about this?
it can be remarkable how quickly and completely a seemingly solid argument can be blown away by the smallest whisper of the Spirit. 

Well, not Joseph's finest moment, but it's not exactly like we've been keeping it a secret.  Here's what the church had to say about it back in 1981:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/08/kinderhook-plates-brought-to-joseph-smith-appear-to-be-a-nineteenth-century-hoax?lang=eng
And here's an article from BYU's Religious Study Center back in 2011:
https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/no-weapon-shall-prosper/did-joseph-smith-translate-kinderhook-plates
A good thorough response would involve asking your husband and parish priest, exactly what they think Prophets of God are, and what they are not.  Challenge them to read the Old Testament and see the occasionally rascally band of sinful foolish agenda-driven humans God picked to be his mouthpieces across history.   There are umpteen examples of OT prophets failing, sinning, getting things wrong, doing things wrong on purpose, even lying about heavenly things.
"How can we trust any of his other translations?"
It's a worthy question - the answer is "Via the confirming spiritual witness of the Holy Ghost."

Her: I'm exhausted.  I was up until 3am with the baby!
Him: It's probably not good to keep a baby up that late.

I understand what you mean Jimmy!
By the way, before I reply to the above post... if you want to reply to a specific post, you can click on the little link on the bottom of the post that says "Quote".  If you want to reply to more than 1 post, then you can use the + button on the bottom of each post before you click on the Reply button that should pop up on the bottom right of your screen.
So yeah, I understand what you mean by it being strange.  There's a reason for that, though, and the youth in the church grow up preparing for missions so they know what they're getting into.  Those 2 years (18 months for women) they spend on a mission is 2 years that they dedicate their lives to God.  It is patterned after the time when Jesus called on the 12 Apostles and told them to leave everything behind and be fishers of men.  In those 2 years, these young adults leave everything behind - including their fathers and mothers (see Luke 14:25-27) - to be completely focused on the mission.  They are completely immersed in the work such that they leave all worldly things to remain in the spiritual plane without any distractions.  They don't go to college, they don't watch movies, they don't listen to secular music, they don't go swimming, etc. etc.  18 years old is not too young for this work.  We send 18 year olds to war.  But yes, it is a very difficult thing to do and what these missionaries go through in those 2 years is life-changing.
I have 2 boys of my own - one 14 the other 16.  They have been preparing for a mission since they were old enough to understand what a mission is.  They are excited for it, they look forward to it, they're saving money for it, they go to seminary at 5:45AM before going to school everyday to prepare for it, etc.  Meanwhile, I'm here being worried, hoping they won't get sent to a foreign country, or hoping they will be on a mission area that uses modern communication, a relatively safe area somewhere in Utah, have his college admissions still be valid after 2 years, etc.  In less than 2 years, my first boy will go.  And he will not be my boy for 2 years - he will be Elder AnatessJr.  He'll write letters, he'll call on Mother's Day and Christmas, and he'll be exercising his full power as a Milchezedek Priest.  Over all that worry, though, is an excitement.  I look forward to who my son will become when he comes back to his mother after an honorably served mission.
These are the Mormon youth.  They're special people.

And it's never too soon to start coming up with your Hollywood-Native-American-esque name ideas.
~ She Who Is Off To Sleep
(Not to be confused with She Who Is Oft Asleep.)

Please note that this knowledge does not come from study or even prayer (alone).  Conversion only comes through doing.  Want to be converted to [place principle here]?  Act as if you already were - live the principle.  Potentially, live it for a very long time.  Not begrudgingly, not skeptically, but willingly, gratefully.  It's the only way.  All the learning, knowledge, faith, and even testimony in the world will do you no good if you're not willingly living it.  (Personal experience speaking there, not a repeat of what someone else said.)  Knowing the truth and being converted to the truth are two different things.

@Blossom76
When I was a kid growing up in the Church, I accepted it to be true simply because I had a good feeling when I was there. That was enough for me at the time.
As I got older and more interested in religion, I realized having good feelings within a given church isn’t enough to confirm it is the one and only true church if such a church exists. Good feelings exist in pretty much every church setting.
I studied more about Jospeh Smith, the cycles of restoration and apostasy, the plan of salvation, and everything seemed to fit together like a nice, neat little puzzle. I thought it made sense logically.  Plus, Mormon apologetics have answers for everything that doesn’t make sense at face value (polygamy, blacks and the Priesthood, coffee and tea). So I read the apologetics answers and thought everything made logical sense. All the more reason to accept Mormonism. 
But then another realization came. The Mormon church isn’t the only church to have apologetics. Most churches have scholarly members who can equally defend their church’s history and beliefs.
So even though my testimony in the church started with good feelings and logic, I knew I needed something more to sustain my faith.
I needed true conversion. I needed to receive irrefutable, God-given knowledge— knowledge that impresses itself so deeply upon me, I could never in good conscious refute the truth of it. 
I believe that’s the kind of knowledge we are meant to obtain as faithful members in the Church. I believe it’s possible to obtain that kind of knowledge in every aspect of the LDS gospel. It’s okay if we start with good feelings and logic. That’s where I’m currently at with accepting the BOM and Joseph Smith. We have to start somewhere. God tells us to study it out in our minds. But our advancement towards true conversion requires true witness being borne to us by the Holy Spirit. We can all get there with the basic gospel truths that have been laid out there before us. And I can stop despairing over the fact I haven’t gotten there just quite yet. 

I'm not the most humble person in the world, but I have always wanted to be more knowledgeable.  Probably because I'm not as humble as I should be.  To be knowledgeable, you must ask questions and truly listen.  That's the hard part, TRULY listening.  Then anything that I don't understand I research, which raises more questions.  Then the answers to THOSE questions require more research.  I guess the answer is talking with people, being forthright with my questioning, attending church, and prayer.   Even then, for most of my testimony I didn't have a flash/bang moment.  It's like my relationship with my wife.  I always knew I loved her, but one day I realized I LOVED her.  There was no flash/bang moment.
However, I believe God rewards effort.  You need to put in the time.  You need to earn it.  If he just ran around handing out testimonies, it wouldn't be much of a test.  I didn't have a conviction to the church until I listened to all the advice people on this forum had been giving me for months.  Live the WoW.  Pray.  Live the Law of Chastity.  Study.  BE what He wants you to be and you'll know it is true.  

I'm not a baptised member and fairly new to this so don't pay too much attention to my experience!
I first started investigating the LDS church because of their belief in the pre-existence, I had been studying NDE (near death experiences) for a while and came across this video on them by an LDS convert (check out his conversion video too, its really good).  That lead me to investigating the LDS faith.
 
As far as the Book of Mormon I haven't read it anywhere near as much as you have, I prayed and I prayed and nothing!  Finally I read this article and all of a sudden 'click' I knew it was true, I just knew it. Joseph Smith did not make this up, the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
https://mormonhub.com/blog/faith/defending-the-faith/book-of-mormon-hoax/ 
I still don't have a solid testimony of the succession of authority to Jospeh Smith, but I'm working on it!

Here's my story:
 

This is how it went for me:
First, I developed a testimony of Eternal Families.  Actually, I already knew this was true I just never heard of it taught by a religious organization before.  So, because of this truth, I started to consider that Joseph Smith - the prophet who restored this truth - is a true prophet.  It took me a long time to get confirmation that the Prophetic Priesthood did not pass from Peter to Pope Linus and that it passed from Peter to Joseph Smith.  After developing that testimony that Joseph Smith is the prophet of God, then it follows that the Book of Mormon is true.

At the boarding gate now for the final flight home from adelaide to canberra. Finally made it to a beach but didn't swim. Met my brother, my son's Mission President and my son's forst companion. Three temples and two Mission Presidents in two weeks. Canberra to brisbane, singapore then Manila on Wednesday 10. Cebu on Thursday 11 to tuesday 16. Cebu to Tacloban Tuesday 16 until Friday 19. Tacloban to Manila on Friday. Manila to Singapore Saturday 17. Singapore until Sunday. Adelaide Sunday night until now. Home in about 2 hours.

My Book of Mormon daily reading pattern at the start of 2018 was to read all the Book of Mormon references listed in the topical guide under the 54 subheadings that come under the heading Jesus Christ. I figured this was a good way to follow the counsel of President Monson to read the Book of Mormon each day and the counsel of President Nelson to read all the references in the topical guide under Jesus Christ both of which was given in the April 2017 General Conference.  I suggest you try the same approach. I tried it for about two weeks and have now amended my approach to read all the references and not just the ones in the Book of Mormon. 

Finally made it out of Tacloban after the flight was delayed another two hours. Got to Manila about 5:50 pm Friday instead of the planned 11:00 am Thursday. Took 2 hours to travel less than 20 kilometers along EDSA from the airport to Greenhills because of the incredibly heavy traffic however late night Friday shop trading hours meant that my wife was still able to do the shopping she wanted to do. Looked at some 20,000 peso fountain pens in National Book Store while my wife shopped. Had dinner at Shakeys, my favourite pizza outlet in the Philippines. Left Manila on time early this morning with a few more items added to our luggsge and am now thoroughly enjoying our one day in Singapore 

Nowhere in the book of Job does Job curse God.  He laments his birth in chapter 3 (I'd bet a significant percentage of humankind has lamented their birth at one point or another).  In chapter 6 he laments his current condition and prays God will give him relief.  In chapter 10, he again laments.  But throughout, he acknowledges God, and in 13 testifies powerfully "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him".  In 19 he testifies of our Redeemer (well enough that we made a hymn out of it).  In 23, he expresses confidence that the Lord will deliver him if he endures well.  In 38, God deems Job worthy enough to engage him in conversation.  And in the end, the righteous man has had his eyes opened sufficient that even he finds reason to repent (turn to God) even more than he already had, and is rewarded with great blessings.
The book of Job isn't proof that Satan can overcome man, it is the exact opposite.  It is an example of how to endure well, to overcome laments about how awful our trials are, to overcome the lies of Satan that it would have been better never to have been born, to ignore and refute the false accusations of "friends", to repent of those things we never before knew needed repenting of, and to trust completely in God, though he slay us.  It is proof that we can endure, through the Lord, and will be blessed in the end for our faithfulness.
Job is an excellent example of both reality (we all complain a bit when things get hard) and of humility and triumph over affliction.