Can’t handle the violence in the BOM

[Sunday21]

Dear Bros & Sis’s,

i just can’t handle the violence in the Book of Mormon (BOM) any more! I am going to use the Topics List to look for useful BOM scriptures and read that way. No more violence and people getting their arms chopped off! 

[brlenox]

16 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear Bros & Sis’s,

i just can’t handle the violence in the Book of Mormon (BOM) any more! I am going to use the Topics List to look for useful BOM scriptures and read that way. No more violence and people getting their arms chopped off! 

Will you require severance pay?

[Sunday21]

14 minutes ago, brlenox said:

Will you require severance pay?

Definitely! Also PTSD compensation from worker’s compensation with punitive damages for pain and suffering.

[Jane_Doe]

I hope you weren't planning on reading the OT anytime soon

[brlenox]

Just now, Jane_Doe said:

I hope you weren't planning on reading the OT anytime soon

You're right.  He's probably not armed for that.

[Sunday21]

8 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I hope you weren't planning on reading the OT anytime soon

I am sticking to the verses that support the lesson. In doings so I should skip most of the wild stuff! I could make a list eg prophet sicing bears on taunting youths but ugh! Let’s not!

Edited January 9, 2018 by Sunday21

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I am sticking to the verses that support the lesson. In doings so I should skip most of the wild stuff! I could make a list eg prphet slicing bears on taunting youths but ugh! Let’s not!

Haha.  I remember reading the Bible through at age ~9.  I got to the story of Noah (and no, I'm not talking about the ark story, the other one) and thought "wow, that's different".  The Bible is VERY rated R, and records many times the people of the Lord did good and horrible things.

[JohnsonJones]

41 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Haha.  I remember reading the Bible through at age ~9.  I got to the story of Noah (and no, I'm not talking about the ark story, the other one) and thought "wow, that's different".  The Bible is VERY rated R, and records many times the people of the Lord did good and horrible things.

I don't think it is R-rated (R ratings are graphic in what they show or explain), with a few exceptions (song of Solomon taken literally may be R or X rated).  In general, most of the Bible probably falls within the realm of G rating to that of PG rating.  Even in death such as when David slew Goliath it doesn't exposite how much blood there was, with the locations it splashed or the tendrils of the neck and muscles or any other explicit detail (an R-rating would probably go into at least a paragraph or two of explanation of the blood and gore...while an X-rated one would probably utilize twice that much to an entire chapter!).

It can be quite action packed though at parts.

[zil]

9 hours ago, brlenox said:

You're right.  He's probably not armed for that.

She.  FYI.

[Fether]

9 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I don't think it is R-rated ... In general, most of the Bible probably falls within the realm of G rating to that of PG rating.

I agree, I too thought the bit about the harlot being raped to death, cut into twelve pieces and sent to the 12 tribes was something I saw out of an episode of Arthur on PBS.

[eVa]

The violence in the BOM, if it can be deemed as such, is G compared to the every day violence that exists in our current existence.  Because of where this world is heading, I really think there is some benefit to understanding it.  Mind you, I don't believe we need to jump in it like it's a pile of leaves, but there is a purpose for it.  How do you deal with violence in the media?

[Fether]

13 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear Bros & Sis’s,

i just can’t handle the violence in the Book of Mormon (BOM) any more! I am going to use the Topics List to look for useful BOM scriptures and read that way. No more violence and people getting their arms chopped off! 

Also, remember what the Book of Mormon is for. It was written for us in our day and is catered to our needs. I have a close friend that left the church (also probably the nicest guy I know and on multiple occasions has stood up for the church when others talk down on it).

One day I over heard him talking to another friend about a VERY strange immoral opportunity that came to him. Over hearing this shocked me beyond belief, a later told him in a humorous, non-related setting that he “Lives in a world I didn’t know existed”. But after reading this and thinking about it, I realize the the contents of the Book of Mormon already taught me that this evil existed in the world.

the evils mentioned in the Book of Mormon prepares us for the future if we pay attention and study.

(my friend took the higher road and did not follow through with the opportunity).

[NeuroTypical]

13 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

i just can’t handle the violence in the Book of Mormon (BOM) any more! I am going to use the Topics List to look for useful BOM scriptures and read that way. No more violence and people getting their arms chopped off! 

Hi Sunday21, 

I value your innocence, and I'm not joking.  I remember how difficult a ride for me, as I went down the learning curve of the horrible things we humans do to each other.  I'm not sure I wish I could go back, but sometimes I miss being there. 

Hey, if you want to stave all that off for a bit longer, more power to you.  Just know that if you fail, and internalize this stuff, there are still good and clean things in the world, and still room for you in it.  The grass will remain green and good, the sun will still feel good on your face. Children's laughter will remain a wonderful thing.  

[Sunday21]

@NeuroTypical. I will still read the bom but not chronologically. I am going to try to read the bom topic by topic

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

One day I over heard him talking to another friend about a VERY strange immoral opportunity that came to him. Over hearing this shocked me beyond belief, a later told him in a humorous, non-related setting that he “Lives in a world I didn’t know existed”. But after reading this and thinking about it, I realize the the contents of the Book of Mormon already taught me that this evil existed in the world.

When my oldest was 18, he told me one day about how had been propositioned by an attractive young woman in a sports car while he was walking home from school. This somewhat jaded, middle-aged man was shocked. How is such a thing even possible? But that is the world we live in, especially today. Our grandparents' ideals of public morality are viewed as quaint foolishness, if not offensive displays of patriarchy or other such nonsense.

But as NT points out, the world is still a beautiful place for those with eyes to see.

[Guest MormonGator]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

But as NT points out, the world is still a beautiful place for those with eyes to see.

I can't believe you @Vort, Mr. Grumpypants himself, feels that way about the world. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by MormonGator

[Vort]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

I can't believe you @Vort, Mr. Grumpypants himself feels that way about the world. 

Ah, but I said "for those with eyes to see."

[mirkwood]

President Ezra Taft Benson taught: "The Book of Mormon … was written for our day.  The Nephites never had the book; neither did the Lamanites of ancient times.  It was meant for us … Each of the major writers of the Book of Mormon testified that he wrote for future generations … If they saw our day and chose those things which would be of greatest worth to us, is not that how we should study the Book of Mormon?  We should constantly ask ourselves, “Why did the Lord inspire Mormon (or Moroni or Alma) to include that in his records?"

[Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Conference Reports, Oct. 1986, p. 5; or Ensign , Nov. 1986, p. 6]  

[anatess2]

You guys are lucky.

I don't have the luxury of going through life Topic by Topic to avoid having seen the traffic cop getting shot to death by the NPA right infront of the school.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding the mother who sold her 6 year old daughter to a child porn outfit because they promised she will be well-fed.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding my cousin jumping out of the 2nd story window to his death on the rocks below because he was high on drugs.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding my uncle surviving machine gun fire a few days before the election.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding the line of shanties with people living hand-to-mouth eating left-overs from the mountain of trash nor the naked 3 year old with the rest of his family spending his day diving for anything thrown to the water at the pier by travelers.  Or accounts of friends caught in the city overtaken by ISIS beheading every non-Muslim and government entities they find.  Or the thousands killed in the drug war.

And so on and so forth.

You don't even have to be in the Third World to experience any of this.  I heard Chicago and Baltimore inner cities is like living in Beirut.

[JohnsonJones]

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

You guys are lucky.

I don't have the luxury of going through life Topic by Topic to avoid having seen the traffic cop getting shot to death by the NPA right infront of the school.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding the mother who sold her 6 year old daughter to a child porn outfit because they promised she will be well-fed.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding my cousin jumping out of the 2nd story window to his death on the rocks below because he was high on drugs.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding my uncle surviving machine gun fire a few days before the election.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding the line of shanties with people living hand-to-mouth eating left-overs from the mountain of trash nor the naked 3 year old with the rest of his family spending his day diving for anything thrown to the water at the pier by travelers.  Or accounts of friends caught in the city overtaken by ISIS beheading every non-Muslim and government entities they find.  Or the thousands killed in the drug war.

And so on and so forth.

You don't even have to be in the Third World to experience any of this.  I heard Chicago and Baltimore inner cities is like living in Beirut.

In that light, I AM lucky.  I don't live in Chicago or Baltimore either. 

[Sunday21]

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

You guys are lucky.

I don't have the luxury of going through life Topic by Topic to avoid having seen the traffic cop getting shot to death by the NPA right infront of the school.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding the mother who sold her 6 year old daughter to a child porn outfit because they promised she will be well-fed.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding my cousin jumping out of the 2nd story window to his death on the rocks below because he was high on drugs.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding my uncle surviving machine gun fire a few days before the election.  I don't have the luxury of avoiding the line of shanties with people living hand-to-mouth eating left-overs from the mountain of trash nor the naked 3 year old with the rest of his family spending his day diving for anything thrown to the water at the pier by travelers.  Or accounts of friends caught in the city overtaken by ISIS beheading every non-Muslim and government entities they find.  Or the thousands killed in the drug war.

And so on and so forth.

You don't even have to be in the Third World to experience any of this.  I heard Chicago and Baltimore inner cities is like living in Beirut.

But ?? ! You should read my local paper! Cat rescued from tree! Residents square off over Marigold/Tulip debate! Increased parking fees! 

To be a reporter in my town, you need a good sense of humour.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Sunday21

[wenglund]

On 1/8/2018 at 8:16 PM, Sunday21 said:

Dear Bros & Sis’s,

i just can’t handle the violence in the Book of Mormon (BOM) any more! I am going to use the Topics List to look for useful BOM scriptures and read that way. No more violence and people getting their arms chopped off! 

I think that revulsion is the intended response to those sections of the BoM. I have long wondered why the war scenes and other gruesome parts are included in any  book of scriptures, let alone "the most correct" book of scripture. The answer that came to me  has two parts: 

First, it is so that we can learn from the mistakes of others (particularly the more serious ones) and not make them ourselves. The BoM and other scriptures provide a way for us to vicarious (kind of like dreaming) sin and vicariously receive the consequence of those sins, so that we learn what happens were we to sin, and are hopefully thus discouraged from committing sin. That is why I will definitely be reading the war and gruesome parts of the BoM and OT, etc., because I want to be so revolted that I won't ever make the same mistakes, myself, that lead to war and gruesome 

Second, it is so that we can learn from correct actions of others. By this I mean that often very bad things happen to good people. War and gruesome events sometimes aren't a product of sin (at least on the part of those initially attacked), and it is good to learn vicariously how to respond when innocent people are wronged, so that we are prepared if or when the same happens to us, or if it doesn't happen to us (except to a much lesser degree), we can yet succor those good people unfortunate enough to be brutally victimized. Again, that is why I will definitely be reading the war and gruesome parts of the scriptures.

But, that may just be me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

On 1/12/2018 at 3:14 PM, changed said:

Let's take the end of the BOM, children being raped and eaten etc.  Somehow I do not remember that being correctly resolved?  What correct actions were demonstrated?  Were Mormon's actions correct - justy run and hide?  That is what happened, but was it correct?  Personally I think fighting is more honorable than running away...  

I have my own answer to that question, but I think you would benefit from searching it out on your own within the writings of Mormon, though with a less jaundice eye. If you seek for understanding rather than justification for your angst, you will find it. There is something very profound in what Mormon did--particularly given his previous gallant actions, that has beneficial implications for one and all of us struggling with being betrayed and violated, etc., or seeing it happen to others. I will give you a hint, it is something recovering alcoholics are trained to do.

Than ks, -Wade Englund-

Edited January 14, 2018 by wenglund

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, changed said:

Job:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born...

Be careful what you wish for.

[zil]

3 hours ago, changed said:

and sure enough, in chapter 3, out of the mouth of a "perfect and upright man", the cursing begins.

Nowhere in the book of Job does Job curse God.  He laments his birth in chapter 3 (I'd bet a significant percentage of humankind has lamented their birth at one point or another).  In chapter 6 he laments his current condition and prays God will give him relief.  In chapter 10, he again laments.  But throughout, he acknowledges God, and in 13 testifies powerfully "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him".  In 19 he testifies of our Redeemer (well enough that we made a hymn out of it).  In 23, he expresses confidence that the Lord will deliver him if he endures well.  In 38, God deems Job worthy enough to engage him in conversation.  And in the end, the righteous man has had his eyes opened sufficient that even he finds reason to repent (turn to God) even more than he already had, and is rewarded with great blessings.

The book of Job isn't proof that Satan can overcome man, it is the exact opposite.  It is an example of how to endure well, to overcome laments about how awful our trials are, to overcome the lies of Satan that it would have been better never to have been born, to ignore and refute the false accusations of "friends", to repent of those things we never before knew needed repenting of, and to trust completely in God, though he slay us.  It is proof that we can endure, through the Lord, and will be blessed in the end for our faithfulness.

Job is an excellent example of both reality (we all complain a bit when things get hard) and of humility and triumph over affliction.

Edited January 16, 2018 by zil