lonetree

Switching through some of the old Hollywood 'easter' films this past weekend, I stopped on 'The Greatest Story Ever Told'. I had not really seen it before and was surprised at the impressive scenery in it. There is a vastness in the backgrounds that I haven't seen in other of those types of films. In fact, it's almost as if the land in which the story took place was that of Robert E Howard's mythical Conan world rather than the ancient near east. This may be worth getting on bluray just for that.

Okay-maybe it wasn't an allusion to Hell--maybe it was Daniel's fiery furnace.

On a lighter note(?) this discussion has triggered a memory of one Star Trek(OS) episode where Kirk-Jeffrey Hunter, Shatner? found himself unable to stand even a few moments of the fabled traditional Hell-brought upon by either: one of those big-headed guys or his antagonist Gary Lockwood .

I think that yr statement "This is such an absurdly long period of time that we have no good way of even getting our minds around it." hits the nail on the head for me- It's not just the intensity of the torment, but the enormity of the time frame, if one can even call it that. My memory is hazy, but I am sure that the Sparrow-mountain illustration was known to me even before that high school reading of Joyce. Perhaps encountered at a revival or campfire meeting in my youth. On the source for Joyce's retreat hell sermon- https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/389596?journalCode=mp Looking at the end of the parable now, it is surprising to me that it even made it into the new testament, as Abraham states, "...if they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, Though One Rose From The Dead..."-italics mine.

So, endless punishment is not necessarily torment without end but has been redefined by God as something that is His to pass on to the unrepentant, because he had to suffer.

Besides the phrase I used^, -no hope- that such a thing will ever end-or that someone will end it for you. The description of hell in James Joyce's 'Portrait of the artist as a young man' which I first encountered in high school comes to mind. The one about mountains of grains of sand and each million years a bird carries one grain away... I read once it may originally have come from Augustine but I'm not sure. It is hard to believe that such pictures of eternal pain and hopelessness did not borrow or were not inspired in some way by this parable.

One of the most chilling parts of the New Testament-I wince each time I come across it. This gives me pause when I hear someone state that 'the traditional Hell of everlasting torment is nowhere really found in the teachings of Jesus'.

Your No. 2 point about the Tyndale bible is interesting. The NRSV and the ESV(English Standard Version) are used & considered authoritative by so many today.Both have the RSV as their forerunner. I don't think the ESV reads as much more than a retread but that's just me. And the RSV as the grandchild of the Authorized Version stands squarely in the tradition of Tyndale. My 1980s prediction(to myself) that the NIV would soon become The English Bible for Evangelicals never did come to pass😊.

Yes. Without free choice, it is just a game- a horrible game. There is no need for Satan, because God has become Satan.

Thank you for pointing out this resource(Ensign). Did not realise that I could go back to some of the issues of 1992 and '3 when I was a member.

Would you mind sharing a bit about the 'tradition' you speak of? I was brought up in a conservative Protestant tradition(actually two branches of it) that valued church attendance & then rest on Sunday. That way of thinking still retains some value for me. I'd be interested in reading more about yr experience.

My favourite composer is probably Ralph Vaughan Williams. He was a hymn(music) writer as well as a well-known composer in his time. He wrote a few symphonies and many smaller pieces. The Lark Ascending--is a very hopeful piece of music.

Just a couple more fun facts from my own childhood-and the recent Canadian past. The two icons of morning CBC children's tv -Mr Dressup, and The Friendly Giant, both came from the USA. Both, but especially Ernie Coombs are still revered today-at least by some. https://www.broadcasting-history.ca/personalities/coombs-ernie-mr-dressup https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/robert-homme-the-friendly-giant-obituary Of course those days are a long way away from the present CBC which glorifies "Drag Kids"🙄.

On Canadians and Americans, I found this 2005 article helpful. The writer is Robert Fulford, a Canadian journalist. There were a couple of places where he made me chuckle-the highlighting of Vincent Massey, and his story about the tv program he watched. The only reason I recognized Massey's name was because he was the bro. of the famous 1950s actor, not because of any time I'd spent on our country's history. http://www.robertfulford.com/2005-11-17-anti-americanism.html

I have to confess-I love watching football-that's not soccer or CFL-but NFL football-on a Sunday afternoon. I have since the early 1980s-when Brian Sipe threw that fateful pass, the Eagles seemed so perfect (but lost), and the Chargers, as exciting as they were, couldn't quite muster a Superbowl win out of it. I assume I'm not alone here. I've been wanting to ask this for awhile, but how does the LDS practice of sabbath keeping fit into this? I know that there have been Latter-day Saints who have played, and, I assume again, perhaps watched the game on Sundays. Is this compatible (or incompatible)with keeping the sabbath for a Latter-day Saint?