laronius

Yes and I agree. My point was that some begin to look for shortcuts in obtaining gospel knowledge rather than seeking revelation.

A specific example from Church history comes to mind: the Church seeking to establish Zion. The commandment and promise we're give to the Saints that Zion was to be established but they were unable to do so. What followed were events that compelled them to be humble. 

A specific example from Church history comes to mind: the Church seeking to establish Zion. The commandment and promise we're give to the Saints that Zion was to be established but they were unable to do so. What followed were events that compelled them to be humble. 

2 Nephi 2: 7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
Justice is essentially enforcing consequences of choices, blessings for obedience and punishment for disobedience. Is that was is meant by the ends of the law or is that only the means to an end with the ends of the law being something beyond that?

I don't agree with this. It is truth that's sets us free and only then can a person truly be happy. And if a person is not ready for the truth we don't start pretending it's not the truth. Modern revelation teaches us that we need to teach truth and even reprove if necessary (as moved upon by the Holy Ghost) and then show forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy. We can teach correct principles and show love at the same time. Anything less only makes us hypocrites and reinforces a lie. I don't see how that would ever help a person.

Something from the Armenian Apocrypha of Adam and Eve.
This version of the story seems to say that the stipping was of their glory or robes of light. I hope that someday we will get the whole story from a revelation from God. 

Ends = purposes. That is: To what ends is the law given? Those ends (purposes) are "the ends of the law".

I think your logical mind was being prepared for the reality of women. 😂

I think your logical mind was being prepared for the reality of women. 😂

I think your logical mind was being prepared for the reality of women. 😂

2 Nephi 9:14 Wherefore, we shall have a perfect knowledge of all our guilt, and our uncleanness, and our nakedness; and the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge of their enjoyment, and their righteousness, being clothed with purity, yea, even with the robe of righteousness.
 
It appears from the scriptures that the resurrection immediately precedes this final judgement so that when we stand before God we will already have received our immortal bodies clothed with whatever degree of glory we have merited. Whether we stand with or without actual clothing, it will be plainly manifest in our very being what kind of a person we have become.
I think you are right about that moment of realization. The wicked may even experience a moment of joy in the resurrection as they receive a glorified body. But once they come to see how inferior that body is to what could have been there's it will be a sad day in deed. 

I think your logical mind was being prepared for the reality of women. 😂

I agree with much of what you are saying but the Lord is also making the point that these aren't just people in general but members of His church. Whatever he originally said must have been intended to communicate that distinction. And it may have been a cultural thing to. 

It may have just been those who actually remain transitioned as adults but the study did say that so much of what qualifies as transitioning is subjective that different studies can produce different results. I read somewhere else of a phenomenon they are seeing, especially among young women, where when one comes out as being transgender one or two close acquaintances on average come out as well and they aren't sure how much of that is legitimate verses just wanting to be part of the in thing or even just the unsureness that teens often feel about themselves. But my main point was that the number is very small, regardless. That's not to say it couldn't be part of what Isaiah is talking about though. And we don't know how far this is going to go in society either. 

In my honest opinion, I think the "Commitment Patter" within Church membership is like hearing in Elders Quorum, "Its the end of the month, please do your home teaching." Sadly, even with the change to ministering we still here this type of speech. We don't learn very well, and tradition is very hard to break. Case in point, let the youth lead out, and yet every week the youth are being told what to do. There is no plan by the youth (and the Church has been teaching this for many years now).
We all know the Commitment Pattern. We all know when it is being used. When we know something, and it isn't something we want to do, then it is very well within the natural man to push back. I'm not convinced this will change because people -- in general -- aren't aware of it. This pattern though happens in all forms and walks of life (especially sales jobs).
This brings up the conversation between force and invitation. I know of a member family who felt like missionary work was forcing the gospel on people, thus their younger children never served a mission.
I would love to see a more principle based commitment, and yet, without an invitation (or some pattern of commitment nothing will progress).
 

I agree with much of what you are saying but the Lord is also making the point that these aren't just people in general but members of His church. Whatever he originally said must have been intended to communicate that distinction. And it may have been a cultural thing to. 

It may have just been those who actually remain transitioned as adults but the study did say that so much of what qualifies as transitioning is subjective that different studies can produce different results. I read somewhere else of a phenomenon they are seeing, especially among young women, where when one comes out as being transgender one or two close acquaintances on average come out as well and they aren't sure how much of that is legitimate verses just wanting to be part of the in thing or even just the unsureness that teens often feel about themselves. But my main point was that the number is very small, regardless. That's not to say it couldn't be part of what Isaiah is talking about though. And we don't know how far this is going to go in society either. 

In times past the LDS members in a community played a much larger role in financing and building local churches.  For certain reason I will limit concerning a personal revelation I received while engaged at a local meeting house in Maryland.  It was revealed to me that all meeting houses are placed under the direction of our L-rd.  That they are His to determine and provide and His specific placement for his purpose.  Those that participate in the building and care of our chapels and temples will be noted and greatly rewarded with divine blessings including blessings of protection from the adversary.   In addition, this spiritual protection is extended somewhat to the community in which temples and chapels reside.  That if communities and Latter-day Saints realized the great value of such structures, they would gladly pay 10 times the value to have them in their communities and would sacrifice even their very lives to maintain and keep them that there may be a spiritual (and perhaps even a physical) refuge both now and for what is to come.
 
The Traveler

55 + years ago when I served as a missionary in the Northwestern States Mission – In our handbook with every commitment we were asked to obtain from our investigators, the missionaries were also instructed to be committed to do whatever was necessary to help and assist investigators.   I understood that our commitment to schedule, study, prayers and fasting for our investigators was part of our commitment.
What I was never sure concerning who was blessed more – the investigators I taught with my commitments and my committing them or if I was blessed for the opportunity of mine and their commitments.  I have not determined which even until now.
 
The Traveler

I agree that there will be those who put their life on the line for standing as a witness of Christ. That has always been the case. My point was simply we don't know how prevalent that will be in the future. Will it happen? Yes. To what degree? Not sure.
As far who the 10 virgins represent, the only official definition I've seen is that they are members of the Church. I don't know that general authorities have ever been more specific than that, but it's possible. An interesting point though to consider is which members of the Church is it talking about in terms of timing. The parable begins with the warning that the bridegroom was coming. So does this parable only deal with those who are alive at the second coming or is it all of those who are alive beginning when the warning is given? And when did/will that start? It could be argued that the 10 virgins represent all members of the Church since the beginning of the restoration. If that is the case then almost all members have been in good standing at some point and could potentially meet your definition of who is a "virgin." 
My point about how more preparation is coming was mainly about the refiner's fire the last days will surely be for members of the Church. The Lord is clear that He wants a people prepared to meet Him when He comes and part of the purpose of the trials preceding His coming is for that very purpose. It will weed out some but it will also "make fit" some who have yet to fully commit, which to one degree or another accounts for most of us. 

They clearly need help with step 4 in your case. It's hard when you know they mean well.

They clearly need help with step 4 in your case. It's hard when you know they mean well.

I remember being in a ward where during the priesthood opening exercises the ward mission leader took a softball and tossed it to a brother with the commitment to hand out a Book of Mormon and then report back, whereupon that brother would toss the ball to another brother and continue the process. One week it was an awkward young man who had previously received the ball and when he tossed the ball it wasn't to anyone in specifically but rather towards a group of men. I still chuckle thinking about all those good brothers practically diving out of the way to avoid ending up with that ball. It caused some laughter then and fortunately someone had the grace to pick the ball up off the ground. Later I thought about the embarrassment it must have caused those individuals and while it could be argued that they brought it upon themselves, that is not what we want people to feel. That's not how the Lord would motivate his followers.
On the other hand it is a divine principle to ask people to stretch themselves, even things that initially make them uncomfortable because that's how we grow. I have no problem with the commitment pattern. But there are right ways and wrong ways of employing it, depending on the person and commitment we are extending. And I think sometimes we don't give that enough thought.

My ward building sits on the main corner of a town so small it's not even a town.  For over 20 years, there's been a nice sign on our property placed there by the community that says "The Churches of [LM's town]".   Under the sign are handpainted shingles for the Catholics, the community church, the Lutheran church.  About 12 years ago, they finally let our church hang our shingle on that sign.  The sign that stood on our property.  The sign we allowed to be placed on our property, even though they wouldn't let us hang our shingle on it for a bunch of years.
Things are all good now.  As the story was told to me: The community church across the street was in dire needs of some groundskeeping, and put out a call to it's members. Only the pastor and one little old lady showed up, and were doing what they could in the July heat ('80's into '90's).  Across the church in our parking lot, the young men had gathered earlier in the day to go do some service project.  When the YM returned, they saw the little old lady slaving away in the heat, and decided to go over and help for an hour.  That Sunday, the pastor gave a pretty energetic sermon about Jesus washing feet and healing the sick and whatnot, and only one of you people managed to show up, and how Christ's call to service had been answered by one old lady and half a dozen mormon teenagers.  And he would no longer tolerate a single negative word about the Christianity of the church across the street, and y'all ought to be ashamed of yourselves, etc.   Then we got to hang our shingle on the sign.  

I remember being in a ward where during the priesthood opening exercises the ward mission leader took a softball and tossed it to a brother with the commitment to hand out a Book of Mormon and then report back, whereupon that brother would toss the ball to another brother and continue the process. One week it was an awkward young man who had previously received the ball and when he tossed the ball it wasn't to anyone in specifically but rather towards a group of men. I still chuckle thinking about all those good brothers practically diving out of the way to avoid ending up with that ball. It caused some laughter then and fortunately someone had the grace to pick the ball up off the ground. Later I thought about the embarrassment it must have caused those individuals and while it could be argued that they brought it upon themselves, that is not what we want people to feel. That's not how the Lord would motivate his followers.
On the other hand it is a divine principle to ask people to stretch themselves, even things that initially make them uncomfortable because that's how we grow. I have no problem with the commitment pattern. But there are right ways and wrong ways of employing it, depending on the person and commitment we are extending. And I think sometimes we don't give that enough thought.