Loss of intellectual inquiry?

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

My wife and kids got me this book for Fathers Day, and it got me thinking. Have we lost the intellectual aspect of gospel knowledge in recent years? I remember when Hugh Nibley and other scholars writings were often published in church publications. In recent years, I cannot recall very much if this in our magazines. Have we lost something in our day and should we try to return to them? In fact, I recently learned that Nibley’s “An Approach to the Book of Mormon,” was the priesthood manual for the year 1957. Now we just read and discuss general conference talks, or rather, try to skim through the talk during the opening announcements in priesthood and hope we are not called on to say anything.
I believe by studying books like this we can awaken a deeper sense of testimony as we read while praying and listening for spiritual insight. Let’s do better as Men, who have followed in Abraham’s footsteps.
 

Quote

 

Abraham 1

2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.
3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

My wife and kids got me this book for Fathers Day, and it got me thinking. Have we lost the intellectual aspect of gospel knowledge in recent years? I remember when Hugh Nibley and other scholars writings were often published in church publications. In recent years, I cannot recall very much if this in our magazines. Have we lost something in our day and should we try to return to them? In fact, I recently learned that Nibley’s “An Approach to the Book of Mormon,” was the priesthood manual for the year 1957. Now we just read and discuss general conference talks, or rather, try to skim through the talk during the opening announcements in priesthood and hope we are not called on to say anything.
I believe by studying books like this we can awaken a deeper sense of testimony as we read while praying and listening for spiritual insight. Let’s do better as Men, who have followed in Abraham’s footsteps.
 

 

I think we are in an age where scholarship is stronger than ever. See, for example, Home (byu.edu) and several other noteworthy university and private scholarship groups. 

Be Faithful Disciple-Scholars Even in Difficulty, Elder Holland Says at Maxwell Institute - Church News and Events (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Given the times in which we live, I think the Church is emphasizing discipleship and personal witness for good reason. The speed at which scholarship is transmitted and changes can only be managed unto salvation by the companionship of the Holy Ghost, and too often apologetics get laden with fallible interpretations, contention and priority over conversion.

[Vort]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:46 AM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

My wife and kids got me this book for Fathers Day, and it got me thinking. Have we lost the intellectual aspect of gospel knowledge in recent years? I remember when Hugh Nibley and other scholars writings were often published in church publications. In recent years, I cannot recall very much if this in our magazines. Have we lost something in our day and should we try to return to them?

The fundamental problem with pushing for gospel scholarship is that the true Saints and angels are not always scholars. Academic scholarship per se forms no part of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Truth does not come from careful scholastic analysis, but always and only from the Spirit of God.

I understand your concern, and I would be lying if I pretended I hadn't shared it. But upon reflection, I believe that the testimony from God comes from the Spirit and is granted to all those who earnestly seek. For some, scholarship might be a part of that seeking. But the kingdom of God must teach the fundamentals of knowing God to a wide, diverse Church that includes all kinds of Saints, including many who neither know nor care about academic scholarship. I love and miss the Nibley touch, but in the end it is a particular vantage point from which to observe and analyze gospel truths, and frankly a vantage point from which comparatively few Saints will actually see things.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Vort

[Ironhold]

There's also the fact that critics of the church have been on their back foot since the late 1980s, with their own declaration that "the messenger is as fair to go after as the message" (et al) backfiring spectacularly and bringing down several then-leading members of the Christian Counter-Cult. 

Things were ugly online in the late 1990s and early to mid 2000s, but even then my generation (myself included) helped battle them back. 

Well, the situation is... pretty calm now. Critics are regurgitating old arguments, and new arguments like the whole "$32 Billion" bit are ripped apart by the facts in relatively short order. So there's not as much need for people to bone up on their apologetics. 

[laronius]

Alma 40:30 Now, I unfold unto you a mystery; nevertheless, there are many mysteries which are kept, that no one knoweth them save God himself. But I show unto you one thing which I have inquired diligently of God that I might know...

This is where true gospel scholarship comes from. That's not to say there isn't a place for the likes of Hugh Nibley and others. I personally really enjoy learning from them. But personal revelation is a far superior mode of instruction and something we may unintentionally move away from when we feast too heavily on the words of scholars. 

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

6 minutes ago, laronius said:

Alma 40:30 Now, I unfold unto you a mystery; nevertheless, there are many mysteries which are kept, that no one knoweth them save God himself. But I show unto you one thing which I have inquired diligently of God that I might know...

This is where true gospel scholarship comes from. That's not to say there isn't a place for the likes of Hugh Nibley and others. I personally really enjoy learning from them. But personal revelation is a far superior mode of instruction and something we may unintentionally move away from when we feast too heavily on the words of scholars. 

Did you read what I said? "I believe by studying books like this we can awaken a deeper sense of testimony as we read while praying and listening for spiritual insight."

[Carborendum]

On 6/18/2023 at 10:46 AM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Have we lost the intellectual aspect of gospel knowledge in recent years?

The fact is that this generation has lost all concept of what "intellectual inquiry" is.  It's not just gospel knowledge.  It is everything.  People are swayed with every wind of doctrine.  When you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

I was kind of proud of a few of the youth in my ward.

A couple of years ago, I was teaching the Sunday School class for the 15-16 year-olds in the ward.  I was encouraged to find that half of them were very conversant in gospel principles and knowledge of the scriptures.  The other half were a conglomeration of shy and I don't know.  And that's ok.

Then the very next year, I talk with the kids just one class lower, and I'm flabbergasted with how little they know.

I feel like we're going to be in a world of hurt with the rising generation that doesn't know anything.

As far as adults... 

I currently teach the adult class.  There are some of the older folks that are very knowledgeable. The conversation is quite lively.  Just two younger adults (the only two young adults) that were contributing to the conversation.  I just realized we have several other young adults that don't come to my class.  I'll have to get on them.

[laronius]

1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Did you read what I said? "I believe by studying books like this we can awaken a deeper sense of testimony as we read while praying and listening for spiritual insight."

Yes and I agree. My point was that some begin to look for shortcuts in obtaining gospel knowledge rather than seeking revelation.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

25 minutes ago, laronius said:

Yes and I agree. My point was that some begin to look for shortcuts in obtaining gospel knowledge rather than seeking revelation.

I got you. Thank you for clarifying. Cheers.

[zil2]

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