Manners Matter
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Posts posted by Manners Matter
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If I remember correctly, some time between 2016 to 2018, the Church said all verses should be sung for the Sacrament hymn. I've been trying to find where that was stated/written but no luck.
I'm also trying to find if not singing all the verses for the Sacrament hymn was part of the changes when we went to just 1 hour (I can't imagine it would've been given the reason for the change just a few years prior).
Any help with finding references for either/both of the above would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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On 7/9/2023 at 10:32 AM, Aquatic Contraption said:
Hi, I'm new here. I am a lifelong active member of the church and have been serving in stake leadership since 2019. I only mention that because I am a temple-attending, covenant-keeping member of the church with a testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
HOWEVER, I am technically a member of the LGBTQIA+ cohort.
I did NOT choose to be that way, and the very idea that someone somehow chooses a path of pain, rejection, and mental anguish is anathema to any right-thinking individual.
I have subscribed here to challenge the very ideas at the root of our indoctrination on this topic. ❤️
You may not have chosen it but I know of someone who did. (Nothing lasting was coming from dating the opposite sex so they decided to date amongst their own.) I know of someone else that has seemed to always have a rebellious streak that has said they're gay but I won't be surprised if that doesn't last.
- Carborendum and scottyg
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It was April Fools Day.
A = April, I = 1
- NeuroTypical and askandanswer
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On 1/18/2023 at 12:36 PM, Backroads said:
Not just converts. I think of all the young ones getting out of their parents' homes.
Something occurred to me a couple years ago. Since parents should have a year's supply for every person under their roof, when the kid marries, they pass a year's supply on to the kid. If they're in a small apartment, it might take some ingenuity to store it but better to be safe than sorry.
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Prayers sent.
If you haven't already, you may want to get in touch with a naturopath (they look at the body as a whole) and/or someone that does biomeridian testing. Regarding the latter, I knew someone that had health issues that the doctors weren't able to figure out but biomeridian testing (painless by the way) provided answers. These are just two options but there are others. Oh - as you call around, ask if they know of other resources. You may be surprised.
Hope things improve for you and your family soon.
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On 11/25/2022 at 6:15 PM, askandanswer said:
This ^^ only covers one side of fast offering. I suspect that large amounts, perhaps even the largest amount, goes to disaster relief or to other non-LDS organisations who are better at disaster relief than we are. As far as I know, all of those funds go out without any strings attached – there is no request or expectation that the recipient of those funds, regardless of their ability, will provide any form of service ever. I think its interesting that the providers of the funds, ie, church members, are expected to provide service when they need such funds, but those who do not contribute to these funds are not expected to give anything when they receive these funds.
You're combining two different things. Disaster relief comes from the donations made to the humanitarian aid fund.
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@JohnsonJones First, I'm sorry for the situation you describe. Second, good job on being a safe avenue for her even though it's uncomfortable. Third, I applaud your granddaughter for not applying to BYU when she's not feelin it. Too many are there just to take advantage of the tuition. Fourth, you're not to blame or 'not strong enough'.
A couple thoughts:
- sometimes people innocently stumble upon negative things on social media
- sometimes they search it out because they're annoyed about something and 'misery loves company' (the hope is they quit doing that sooner than later)
- sometimes they've sinned and turn away instead of repenting (I know of a family who's oldest decided they're atheist but this was after they got pregnant)
My point is is that there might be an underlying cause and the social media was just the outlet. It's always best to get to the root of the issue and deal with that if you can.
Anyway, I just read* Sheri Dew's remarks at a devotional Nov. 2. Her audience is college kids and it may help your granddaughter.
Hope some of this is helpful and that you and your granddaughter can find your way through this.
*you can also listen to it here - Prophets Can See Around Corners (byuh.edu)
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3 hours ago, pam said:
I thought the same thing. It was like he was saying good bye. Then to have the choir singing Till We Meet Again...
Had the same thought especially after noticing he seemed to be sitting during his talks*.
*The camera would pan out while he got to the podium, the flowers were above his head (unlike other speakers) and there was a black square behind him that you could see when the camera was a side angle.
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57 minutes ago, Ironhold said:
/snip/
On one hand, I know that they're going to need the revised briefing document as a *lot* has changed locally.
On the other hand, given what happened the last time, I fear that they won't take me seriously or will try to boss me around again.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Pass along the info and
hope forexpect the best outcome. (go into it with a positive mindset)If they don't take you seriously, that's on them and you did what you felt to do. If they try to boss you around, just set boundaries and ask that they be respected. Oh - also allow them the space to have changed/learned some things from the previous experience.
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6 hours ago, MarginOfError said:
I've turned down one calling officially, and hinted strongly that another shouldn't be extended to me as I would immediately decline.
The first, I was asked several years ago to be the "Stake Scouting Coordinator." I was somewhat excited at the thought, as I initially thought I would be training leaders and helping them to provide a better program and scouting experience to the young men. When I discussed my vision for what scouting could look like in the stake, they said, "oh, no. We don't want you to do anything like that. We just want you to coordinate and oversee all of the rechartering paperwork for all of the wards." As arrogant as it might seem, that seemed like a mismatch of the job to my skill set and I declined the calling.
The second happened just a few weeks ago. My bishop indicated to me that the stake president was contemplating calling me to organize the stake young men camp for June of this year. I advised my bishop to tell the stake I wasn't interested in planning such a large event on such short notice. While I would be happy to plan the camp in general and would likely rather enjoy it, I also know how much stress and frustration are involved in trying to accomplish that task in so short a time frame. I wasn't willing to put myself through that. If they had asked me a year in advance, I wouldn't have hesitated to accept (and I told the bishop to pass that on to the stake).
When members of our ward have asked for releases or turned down callings, I've typically pushed to respect their boundaries, but to also change how we extend the callings. Instead of simply saying, "will you accept this calling," I've encouraged leaders to offer three or four days to think it over. I've also encouraged leaders not to stop at "We want to call you to [calling]," but to create a vision of what is needed in the calling. There's a big difference between "We want to call you as a Primary teacher" and "We have been short a consistent and reliable teacher for the CTR class, and [specific child] especially would benefit from having a consistent and familiar face. We would like to ask you to serve as a Primary teacher to help [child] develop their testimony."
Another one I remember was calling a woman on the autism spectrum to serve in the Primary Presidency. She admitted she hated working with kids and said, "I will accept the calling, but only because I think it's wrong to decline." At that point, we backed up a bit and advised her that maybe we needed to clarify what was needed of her. We described the needs the Primary President felt were in her weaknesses, and identified that those weaknesses were in this sister's strengths. We also went a step further and advised her that service in the church should bring joy, and if she went a couple of months and felt miserable in her calling, she should talk to us so that we could release her and find her a calling that she would be more uplifting for her. Her attitude changed from "I'll accept this calling because I feel like I have to," into "I have something to offer, and I find it less stressful to try because I know I can an 'escape route' if I really don't like it." she served for two years before the Primary presidency was reorganized
Most recently, we had a sister that had declined a couple of callings for a lack of time. But when we called a new Relief Society President, the new president felt strongly that this sister needed to be her first counselor. When the interview was held, she was extended the calling, her concerns about time were acknowledged, and then she was told, "we'll give you a few days to think about it, but before you go, we are going to bring in the new president to talk to you about what her vision and goals are for the Relief Society and how you can help." We then let the two of them talk. The two worked out how they could work around her time constraints and she accepted the calling.
I think one of the biggest things we can do to support members in callings is recognize that they all have diverse obligations, time commitments, interests, and insecurities. If we get complacent enough to just name a calling and ask for acceptance, it's hard for them to find their place and get their footing. If we take a little more time to help them discover where they can contribute around their other obligations, I think they are much more likely to accept calling and feel good about what they can accomplish.
What a breath of fresh air this was to read! Thank you for sharing. If only every ward/stake gave such consideration.
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Glad it has helped. More that has come to mind:
have had that calling so many times/years, just not up to it again/another week (ie organ), had a bad experience with it in the past (ie yw pres), some people are very difficult to work with (things may look fine on the outside but the inner circle knows differently), dealing with a friend's unruly kids could ruin the friendship (nursery/primary/activity days/ym/yw)
Sometimes there are valid reasons, other times excuses are at play but they feel justified because everyone's a volunteer.
It might help to see how the 'no's' help you appreciate the 'yes's'/stayers a lot more and expressing it always and often can make a difference for all involved.
Side note: How releases are handled matters. I know someone who felt they were 'fired' because they couldn't do as much as the previous person (different life circumstance, etc). I also know someone (convert) who went inactive because of how the release was handled. She loved her calling and was great at it (prim pres) and not only was she not ready to be released but it was handled very poorly. Also, it's not fair (for lack of a better word) when some get to stay in a preferred calling long past anyone else. It's also not cool when someone is left in year after year even though mistakes/disfunction abounds. I know timing can be overlooked with all the things that need juggling but others do notice. Anyway, just some things to keep in mind. All the best!
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7 hours ago, Grunt said:
Thanks! This was less about me (though partially) but more a general question. I'm trying to figure out why someone would turn down a calling or ask to be released. I'm looking for insight because I'm pretty black and white about many things, and that can lead me to be less compassionate than I should be. Not that I don't care, but I don't understand. If I don't understand, it can be tough.
Has it always been difficult in small wards to fill callings? Is it an issue in larger wards, too? For those that have been Bishops, how do/did you approach this?
Well, this puts a different spin on it. As to why someone would turn down a calling/ask to be released - moving (and may not be letting the cat out of the bag yet), health reasons they want to keep private, depression and/or anxiety (again - keeping quiet about it), struggling with infertility so nursery/primary not a good fit, dealing with spouse issues and never know when another shoe will drop (again - things people aren't aware of). A couple other examples - lack of confidence (ie primary music leader) and lack of support from the ward (choir director and no one shows up). Another reason I've heard - the outgoing person was so A+/loved, they can't possibly fill those shoes. That's all that's coming to mind right now but hope it helps a bit.
Just thought of another one - not worthy but not ready to see the bishop (ie some callings would lead to being asked to give priesthood blessings more often, teaching a lesson on things you're struggling with would just feel off, etc).
Also - spouse not happy with the time spent on the calling but they don't want to throw them under the bus or reveal they're not able to find balance/scale back to resolve the issue.
Don't feel like they're doing a good enough job.
Just remembered another reason I was told by someone I visit taught years ago - an older gentleman was told by his dr (non-member) that he should 'retire' from the stress (or something along those lines) so he did. He still went to church every week but that's it.
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I've served in various capacities over the years and have never felt over my head. As far as turning down callings - not technically. There have been a couple times they would 'feel me out' and I was honest so the official ask never happened (sometimes people assumed I'd be perfect for the spot because of my natural leadership and organizing skills and tenacity but a calling needs more than that).
Looking back, I see where I made mistakes here and there but hopefully I've learned and won't repeat them and instead of being down on myself for the mistakes, I remind myself I did my best and my intentions were good.
As far as advice, ask others who may have had the calling you've got? Also, part of the job of Stake leaders is to help where needed so utilize them. Also remember that callings do come to an end (this is especially for the ones you like less than others).
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Sometimes 'tough love' is charity.
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2 hours ago, Fether said:
Maybe it’s a generational thing. I don’t ever remember opening a gift that was an “essential”. My Christmas gifts tend to be toys, new clothes, fancy socks, candy or things related to my hobbies.
Well, for me - one year I opened a training bra. Another year a slip for under my skirts. (I'm younger than 50 btw)
Kids should be given opportunities to learn to be gracious and thankful for what they receive even if it's not something fun or exciting.
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8 minutes ago, Fether said:
This makes me a little sick to read. Are you suggesting people who are destitute should be limited in to life’s essentials when we offer gifts? I don’t know every situation but my family struggled hard the last half of this year and the bishop came to us asking what we would want for Christmas. It wasn’t something we requested of him. We were lucky enough to pull ourselves out of our situation, but had that luck not come, I absolutely would have asked for toys for our children. Not toilet paper and gallons of milk
Aren’t Christmas gifts for children supposed to be non-essential luxuries? If I’m going to give a child a gift, it ain’t going to be underwear. If they need underwear, I’ll give them underwear on top of whatever gift I give them.
Not speaking for Traveler - but what came to my mind with his post is a request I saw on the tree a year or two ago was for a gaming system for an older teenager. At that age, they need to be working not getting addicted to video games so that gift request would actually be a bad thing and not a gift at all.
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The giving/angel tree used to be something I was happy to be a part of but some of the requests I've seen over the years (with various organizations) has soured my attitude. If there were guidelines, though, it would definitely help. My take:
~ I don't think it's a bad thing to teach kids that "competing with the Jones'" is not the goal - even at Christmas.
~ What harm is there in helping kids understand that they have it pretty good already and be grateful for it? (leading up to Christmas, read stories of those in South Africa who's toy is a push car they made out of wire from the dumpster or how the girls use their imaginations and 'play house' for their fun, or the kid in South America who is thrilled with a piece of string or the 'little house on the prairie' scenarios where they were thrilled with an orange and a few pieces of candy). The point being, first teach gratitude and perspective not encourage an entitled attitude.
~ Kids need to be taught the difference between needs and wants and that the first comes before the latter.
~ I like the idea of kids only receiving 3 gifts and that follows the read, need, want, wear idea (some of these should be coming from grandparents so only 1 gift is needed for them on the tree)
~ No request should exceed $5 per year of age.
~ If they want more expensive things, they can earn and save the money themselves. That's the best way for them to learn the value of a dollar and help them appreciate what they receive from others.
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On 11/15/2021 at 3:28 PM, laronius said:
When my family gets together for Thanksgiving dinner there is usually somewhere between 40-50 in attendance. We usually just eat then the kids start running around and the adults just start talking. There's nothing wrong with this but I feel like there ought to be something more. So I'm hoping to get some ideas about what your family likes to do. It can be spiritual or just fun but something to make the experience more than just an elaborate picnic.
My family hasn't done these but some ideas off the top of my head - before eating, everyone share something they're thankful for; someone read a quote/short story about gratitude; have a table set up with pens and thank you notes for people to use to write and mail/deliver to someone that has impacted them; everyone decorate a gratitude journal to take home; have a computer handy so people can check relative finder to see if there's any relation to the pilgrims; have everyone bring a can/box of food to be donated to the local food bank.
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On 10/25/2021 at 7:16 PM, Fether said:
In EQ yesterday, we spoke about hope. The only thing we can have hope in is Christ. Hope for an easy life, hope that I will be ready for whatever catastrophe is coming, and hope that my family won’t starve to death are all things that won’t do much.
The only promise God makes is that of eternal life, and that scares me.
If there is a big enough disaster where supply chains are cut off, all the food in our local stores will be gone within a few hours.
So not ganna lie, this whole conversation about being prepared terrifies me. Almost cripples me sometimes.
The day may come that Saints around the world starve to death. Not because of neglecting preparation, but from simply not having resources, and no amount of righteousness or preparation can prevent this should a large enough supply chain disruption occur.
My family, for example, is one of those who may starve should something happen on the next year. I got off my mission is 2016, married in 2017, and first kid came on 2018. We felt the prophetic direction was clear, don’t wait for a career or education to start a family. We now have 3 amazing kids. Mid 2019 - mid 2020 was my first time experiencing paychecks that more than supported the month to month necessities. We built up a pretty good 1-2 months storage outside of the food we regularly kept stocked for day to day meals. The financial decisions we made in 2019-2020 were under the assumption that we were going to continue to grow economically and that we would bring more children into the world.
Then Covid hit. The disease didn’t bother us much, but the city lock downs did. Over this last year, my income was only about 1/4 the size from the previous year. we are in pretty rough debt and struggling to even keep up with rent (but have a lot of help from family and the church). We also lack a home we own. Should disaster hit, we will lose our home before we run out of food. It may take all year to partially recover from this prior year. If something major happens, my family’s only hope is for someone else to help. We can probably make it two if we ration extremely carefully. The type of world wide catastrophe that would require a 1 year supply is one of those things that will leave my family starving.
So ya… with everything going on, and knowing that starvation and death are on the table of things God is willing to let us experience, it all scares me. I have to live my life as if the economic future is amazing or I cannot function day to day.
This reminds me of something that occurred to me a couple years ago that I've never heard mentioned. The guidance to store 1 years supply for everyone in the house (and update it regularly) means that when a couple marries, each set of parents goes to the basement and gives a one year portion to the newlyweds. The new couple then has a year's supply of necessities that they only need to stash wherever they can find room. It may be a pain to tote around each time you move but it's better to have it then not. Has anyone ever heard of parents passing on part of what they've been storing as each kid leaves the nest?
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10 hours ago, clbent04 said:
Asking for my aunt who has served in the Church most her life primarily working in temple administration for the last 20 years. Her position at the temple is paid, and she is 75 now and is needing to figure out retirement. She doesn’t have any savings since the little amount of money she did have she’s used to help cover the funeral expenses for several of her loved ones. Would the Church help her even if it doesn’t have a formal, agreed upon pension plan in place with her? I know about the welfare program, but isn’t that supposed to be relied upon only temporarily? Would the Church be able to take care of her on a permanent basis?
That is for the family to do, not the Church. As someone else stated, time for a family meeting.
- scottyg and NeuroTypical
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2 hours ago, Fether said:
How does one prepare for conference?
Write down whatever questions or concerns you have and be ready to write down the impressions you have about them while you listen.
New POTUS this year
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My counsel would be to search out better news sources.