Traveler

thank you for your military services and sharing your thoughts.  I think you may be right.  I feel it is about conversion.  

Laman and Limual thought it was "too hard" to retrieve the Brass Plates and intended to return home early from their mission.  I think you are wrong in blaming Lehi as the only problem because of raising his children incorrectly.   I do not believe such is as much a problem of parenting as it is being converted and having experienced a mighty change of heart.  But this opinion is coming from someone that served two years in the military during a time of war before serving my mission - that I though was perhaps the easiest experience of my life.  I also financed my mission from my personal savings - which I do not think but a very few (if any) do currently.  Also when I was on my mission and someone would ask how many missionaries were serving in my mission - my answer was - about half of them and that was about 50 years ago.
 
The Traveler

That's beautifully said.  Thank-you.

I heard a great talk from an RM this morning.  He had a tough companion that he didn't get along with.  One morning after an argument he caught the companion shining his shoes.  Turns out, whenever they argued the companion would shine the missionary's shoes for him behind his back.  His reason?   Through service we learn to love those we serve.  
This missionary would have never known how hard his companion was working to live him if he hadn't caught him.  As you can imagine, the relationship changed that day. 

My parents taught that a kind or charitable person is not defined by being kind and charitable when it is expected, desired and appreciated.  Rather a kind and charitable person is kind and charitable even (and especially) when it is not expected, desired or appreciated.
 
The Traveler

My parents taught that a kind or charitable person is not defined by being kind and charitable when it is expected, desired and appreciated.  Rather a kind and charitable person is kind and charitable even (and especially) when it is not expected, desired or appreciated.
 
The Traveler

My parents taught that a kind or charitable person is not defined by being kind and charitable when it is expected, desired and appreciated.  Rather a kind and charitable person is kind and charitable even (and especially) when it is not expected, desired or appreciated.
 
The Traveler

Are you I'mlying that intelligence has evolved? 

Exactly, It could not have been said better!  
 
The Traveler

As I learned from my father - I encouraged (pushed) my kids to do good things and a mission I considered a good thing.  Some of my kids did not serve a mission - and though I was disappointed - I still love them - and my one son that did not serve a mission has married in the temple.  I believe that there are blessings lost from not serving but life goes on and there are other blessings.
 
The Traveler

Agreed.
However, my point isn't "who started it first," but that dogma, wherever it exists, is not a good thing. Both science and religion benefit from divesting themselves of dogma, and  will thus tend towards complimenting each other rather than warring against each other.
In short, the perception that science and religion are against each other, is a delusion of dogma on both sides.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Whenever we talk about issues - there are always circumstances that can and do change the morality of issues.  It is my opinion that no society can exist without morals.  I also believe that for a society to be stable and continue to exist it must define and enforce law.  As such all laws are an extension of the morals of a society.  Without morals there will be no law or enforcement of law - for very long.  The first moral of an individual is responsibility for their thought, beliefs and actions.  Thus I believe that the first order of law is to protect the individual's right to be personally responsible and second to punish those individuals that are not personally responsible based on their ability to be responsible.
When we say a woman has to right to have an abortion what are we saying?  Are we saying that such a woman is responsible?  In the case of rape - the irresponsible person would be the biological father.  I think there is a disconnect then it is considered moral for an abortion in the case of rape when there is no consequence for the perpetrator of the rape.  If we want a moral to exist in society the punishment for non-compliance must exceed the propensity of someone desiring to be immoral.  So if a society wishes to prevent unwanted pregnancies then that society must enact laws that will enact punishments for those involved in unwanted pregnancies that will mitigate their desire to be immoral and cause unwanted pregnancies - regardless or complicit to their economic status. 
It is my opinion that without morals there is no liberty, freedom or justice.  If an individual is not moral they are not free, experience liberty or justice.  If a society is not moral it it is not a free society nor does it protect liberty and enforce justice.  And for the record I do not support laws that encourage personal irresponsibility or discourage personable responsibility.  I do not understand the logic of those that think otherwise and realize that at some point - they must be eliminated for any society if that society is to remain free.  I will make one last point - I believe it was the argument of Lucifer (Satan) to shift responsibility from individuals to those that have taken control of the society.
 
The Traveler

Gravy Ark.
 
The Traveler

When I am at a meal - formal or informal, and I would like to have some gravy - I would simply say, "Please past the gravy".  We could discuss the intelligence or manners in asking for something else but for the life of me - I do not understand why?  I think I have too many friends like @zil that think meal time is for their personal entertainment and amusement rather than eating.  I do not mind being the center of humor at dinner - if I initiate it.
 
The Traveler

Gravy Ark.
 
The Traveler

I am thankful for a compassionate husband. He is a righteous priesthood holder, holds and honors a temple recommend. He anchors me. Calms me when he sees and senses that I am nearing an emotional & verbal eruption.
He cries with me. Laughs with me. Sometimes he even laughs at me - which actually brings me off my high horse and back into reality.
I am so thankful he is my Eternal Companion. We met & married late in this mortal life [14 years ago], I was 52 he was 62, hence we won't be spending much time as mortals, but we WILL be together for Eternity!

Good Post @Vort
If we define a prophet as one that testifies of Christ and reveals the gospel to his disciples, I'd say the MOST important Prophet in the Book of Mormon was our Lord, Jesus Christ, himself.  Of course, he was also our Lord and Savior and many other holy and great things. 
I'd call it the crowning event of the Book of Mormon.
However, I'd still also agree that there are MANY important prophets in the Book of Mormon among whom one was Abinadi.

Greetings one and all - may I introduce my self.  My college major was math and physics.  I have spent most of my life working as an engineer in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence.  Oh the stories I could tell.  There is a lot of misconception.  Automation is not going to put people out of work - not even one. The proper term is displacement because of inadequate education.  Automation is going to make more opportunities - not fewer.  150 years ago over 90% of the population worked in agriculture - today fewer that 10% of the population work in agriculture.  This is because a lot of jobs in agriculture have been automated.  So is 85% of the population out of work?  
Actually there is more opportunity for work in our current economic structure than there was 100 years ago.  What has changed is that workers need more skills and this could also be said as different skills.  Needs in education have always followed needs in the economic workplace.  The reason we are having this discussion is because education is falling farther and farther behind the economic need.  Technology is advancing and changing.  But worse - education has fallen so far behind and out of touch that even educators are ill equipped to educate the populace and prepare enough intelligent and capable workers in the changing economic workplace.  Tenure and tradition in education is grossly antiquated inadequate and out of date.  Education has become more a social engineering project than a useful education. 
The fact that anyone thinks automation means less jobs is proof that education has failed.
one last thought - my workplace motto is: "Every one automate - pronounced: ought-to-mate."  😀
 
The Traveler

Nope

Just as there is one "true" and "living" G-d - likewise there is one "true" and "living" religion.  If there is not one "true" and "living" religion (kingdom) there is no G-d (king).  The more we make the church and religion an aberration - the more we distance ourselves from the G-d of TRUTH and become subject to a g-d of lies.
 
The Traveler 
 

Just as there is one "true" and "living" G-d - likewise there is one "true" and "living" religion.  If there is not one "true" and "living" religion (kingdom) there is no G-d (king).  The more we make the church and religion an aberration - the more we distance ourselves from the G-d of TRUTH and become subject to a g-d of lies.
 
The Traveler 
 

Update for those who remember this thread from the age of the dinosaurs:
I had a first-person, 50-yard-line seat to this particular drama when it happened, though I was reluctant to admit that at the time because I thought that Morningstar didn't want me to spill the beans that we knew each other and were in the same ward. (She did that herself later on.)
Ten years later, I can affirm that the whole sordid situation had devastating consequences for all involved. Most of the ward knew what was going on, and the majority quietly sided with the accused young man, a recent convert with his (African-American) family consisting of his mid-30s mother, himself, and three siblings. I was particularly close to the family, especially the accused, who was my oldest son's age and a pretty good friend of his. The ward majority who sided with the accused party also tried to maintain loving relations with the family of the eight-year-old female accuser, who were themselves suffering from trauma that would shortly break the family apart.
Fallout from this nightmare included the breakup of the accuser's parent's marriage, outside and internal accusations of sexual abuse of the accuser by her father and/or brothers, the declaration some years later of one brother that he's homosexual, the death of the accused boy's mother before the age of 40 (not directly related to this particular ugliness, but still heart-wrenching), and the subsequent almost complete inactivity of her four children, including the falsely accused young man. I'm still FB friends with the oldest daughter, who seems to be doing well. Wish I knew what was going on with them all.
The other family broke up and the individuals picked up the pieces and moved on. The little girl who made the accusation must be about 18 by now. I wonder how she is doing. Both parents remarried; I'm FB friends with the father, but I'm never on FB any more, and we weren't really buddies anyway.
I'm left with wistful "what-if"s and not a few regrets about what happened and how I acted toward these families, both in this horrific situation and just in general. Until such a time as God gives me the ability to travel backward through my life and undo certain well-meant but unwise choices and actions that proved to be less than helpful, all I can do is learn whatever lessons I can glean and try to move on.

Call it whatever you will but if such a thing is not repented of and corrected (perfected - or made perfect) it will have an end at death and will not have effect after this life or in eternity.  In other words - such belief and behaviors will prevent someone from the Celestial Kingdom of glory in the resurrection.  See Doctrine and Covenants 132 with particular attention to verse 4 that talks about being "damned" for rejecting the "everlasting" covenant which includes temple marriage.
 
The Traveler

What do you think of the scripture?  Truth or a lie?
My personal plan is not to stand before G-d at the last day arguing over what was or was not a sin - my plan is to be repentant and beg for forgiveness - especially those things that I was unaware was sinful at the time.
 
The Traveler

Many thought of concern.  Serving a mission is not an ordinance - but it is the will of G-d.  Paul said in essence, "To him that knows to do good and and does not do it - to them it is sin."  Being and missionary is not an option - it is a commandment.  Being called as a "full time" missionary may be an option but being worthy to receive and accept a call to service from G-d is a commandment - and I would purport that if someone does not repent an attitude to not serve or fulfill a calling - they are not candidates for exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom.
In short - I do not believe someone has to serve a mission (even if called to do so) to obtain exaltation - But I do believe that they must repent - which I believe requires sorrow and regret not doing as commanded.  But I also believe it is better to not serve a mission and repent than to accept the call but refuse to magnify the calling and not repent for not magnifying the call.
 
The Traveler