Traveler

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  1. Like
    Traveler reacted to estradling75 in So my longtime friend thinks Pope Francis is the Antichrist   
    I know you are joking... But that is a level of Apocalypse invocation that I am not comfortable with  <Steps as far away from Traveler as he can get.>
     
    The Stars and the Heavens are explicitly setup by God for Signs, Warning and Season.  So watching the Heavens is wise, just beware of Satan's counterfeit of astrology.
    Given that Planets anciently meant "Wandering Stars"  I tend to lean toward the planet Conjunction theory myself but that is just a personal thing.  And if we are looking for Apocalypse pointing signs in the Heavens there is Revelations 12: 1-2 which some make the case for having already happened.
     
     
  2. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Conference October 3-4, 2020   
    One of my greatest experiences of life was basic training in the army.  There were no social filters.  We were not divided by intelligence, race, size, health, abilities or any other notable characteristic.   In addition we were all treated like the worthless scum of the earth.  Anyone that stood out for any reason was treated badly just for standing out.  I was very quickly singled out because I knelt beside my bunk on our first night to say my usual nightly prayers.  In addition, I did not swear, smoke, drink or brag about abusing women.  Enough about me.
    Every morning we all got up at the same time - no one was allowed to get up early or late.  We were all required to do the same thing.  Everyone had to shave weather they needed to or not.  We were all required to go to the bathroom.  We all got dressed in exactly the same style of cloths and were required to wear our cloths exactly the same.  If anyone did not follow the rules and requirements - we were all punished.  On occasion we were punished just for the fun of it.  We all went to breakfast at the same time and to the same place and ate the same food.  We could not leave the mess hall until everyone was done eating.  Every hour of every day we all did the same things.  If anyone did not qualify a minimum standard we were all punished and reprimanded for it.  Many times we were all required to do the same thing over and over until everyone got it right.  If there was ever a fight or disagreement with anyone among us; we were all required to "suffer" because of it.  Everywhere we went we had to be instep with each other - we even had to all swing our arms while walking in unison.
    It is spoken in scripture that in certain societies there were no rich or poor, no distinction between bond or free.  This experience of basic training is the closest I have ever been in my life to a social structure without prejudices.  I developed friendships with individuals that otherwise I would not even say hello to on a street.  I learned things about people different from me that I would not come to know by any other means.
    Jesus said to love everyone and to even have compassion for our enemies.  I have a difficult time with compassion - especially with what I think are "stupid people".  My wife is the opposite.   She is popular with everybody.  She does not even care who wins silly card games - even if someone cheats or changes the rules.  She just likes everybody.  And regardless of what someone is going through or feels at any given moment she understands and cares.  Mostly, she puts up with me.  She is just about the only person I know that is without prejudice - but in scripture it is called - "without guile".
     
    The Traveler
  3. Haha
    Traveler reacted to Jamie123 in Hunter Discovers Black Bear in Tree Stand with Her   
    Quite unBEARable in fact! 😜
  4. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Vort in The Law of Consecration and Stewardship   
    A little story about the United Order.
    While I was in college I made a friend with a fellow in one of my classes - we often would study together.  He was about a year and a half a head of me and just prior to his graduation we were talking and he produced the blue prints of the house he planed for him and his new bride.  I went over the plans and the house was what I thought was way beyond what a new grad could afford to build.  But he told me that the house would be built as soon as he graduated.   He said that it would be built by his family.  I was impressed and sought more information and his family story unfolded.
    There were in history several places that were quite successful with the United Order.  I believe that it was near Snowflake Arizona that a successful United Order maintained a cattle ranch.  But the Church decided to sell off all the United Order and divest itself.  My friends great grandfather arranged to purchase the cattle ranch and decided to run the ranch within the family as it had previously been ran by the church.  Over the years the enterprise expanded and the family business moved into other enterprises.  They included a construction company, building supplies store, a bank, a grocery store, a doctor's office, a dentist and a few other enterprises.  After high school my friend met with the family board of directors and was offered a position within the organization as an engineer.  The business would pay for his education and he would work within the company upon his graduation.   His pay would not be very good but the benefits were amazing.  The company would provide all the building supplies for his house at cost and his the family would provide the labor free to build his home.  In addition the family bank would provide the mortgage at a very low rate (I believe it was 2% and  the stand rates at the time were between 12 and 18%.  Medical and dental care would be provided by the company's enterprises and he would purchase food ad cost from the family store. 
    I lost track of my friend after his graduation but I found the story interesting.  There are a number of "family businesses" - some less successful but never the less still in operation.  I seriously considered starting a "family business" but none of my children were interested in my consulting business and as truth be known have gone through time of their lives when they were not interested in religious things.  But times have changed and now I have a son that is putting together a family business.  I have invested in his enterprises - we will see how things turn out.
     
    The Traveler
  5. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in The Law of Consecration and Stewardship   
    I would only change - that we (as a family) are as close as we want or determine to be.  And it is not just about money - it is also about time and talents which can also be expressed as service.
     
    The Traveler
  6. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in Kissing and making out before marriage? My friend told me that I should accept his standard on this   
    I personally dislike the terms "Sex" and "Sexual".   It is my personal opinion that the covenant of marriage is a good and wonderful blessing.  That kissing and intimate relationships are a sacred trust and that living the Law of Chasity is good and righteous thing to do.  Everyone should prepare for marriage and keep sacred things sacred.  If discipline is a difficult thing - then engagements should be shortened.  But we should not think of intimate relationships as dirty, evil or corrupt - just something very sacred that should be disciplined as are all sacred and divine things.
     
    The Traveler
  7. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to laronius in The Law of Consecration and Stewardship   
    I think you make an important point in involving our families in spiritual matters to a greater degree than perhaps we are in the habit of doing. One thing I really like about the new self reliance courses is that they encourage parents to involve their children in financial discussions and even decision making when possible. I remember a bishop telling how when he had to leave home to go council with a struggling couple and his children asked where he was going instead of just saying he had church work he actually stopped and told them someone in the ward needed his help or that someone couldn't afford to keep their electricity on and he was trying to help them. He spoke about how involving his children in these things (without breaking privacy protocols of course) helped his children better understand how the gospel blesses lives through us and that his time away from them was for an important purpose. I like how your transitioning your children to fasting was purposeful and not just a law laid down simply because that's what we are supposed to do. I agree that the principle on consecration can and should be taught very early in life. Not necessarily the details of the united order but the idea that everything is God's and he gives it to us to support ourselves and to help others. I think this needs to happen more.
  8. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Jamie123 in What happened to MormonGator?   
    Not to ruffle any feathers  but I was taught by my parents not to determine my actions depending so much on the choices of others but rather to determine my course and (symbolically speaking) set my sales and rudder to take me where I intended to go; regardless of what direction the wind blows or the destiny of others.   I will miss the contributions of Mormongator and the full participation of @Godless
     
    The Traveler
  9. Like
    Traveler reacted to Vort in Timelapse of the Future - Very interesting video I found   
    A thought-inspiring video. Here's my reaction.
    In the time before astrophysics was really a thing, scientists believed that the universe had existed forever, in more or less the same state we see it today. This was the so-called Steady State Theory (or Model). Edwin Hubble had demonstrated the very weird idea that the universe itself was expanding, so the Steady State Model accounted for this by saying that the average density stayed the same because matter was constantly being created from, apparently, nothing at all.
    (By the way, I believe it was this particular idea that Joseph Smith was responding to when he revealed that the elements are eternal, not "created" ex nihilo and not destroyed into nothingness. The model that replaced Steady State, at first rejected by both scientists and religionists alike and mockingly called "Big Bang", is the one most astrophysicists today accept. I personally think that it fits in much better with Christian—at least LDS Christian—doctrine than does the Steady State Model.)
    The video that @Fether linked in the OP suffers from exactly this same myopic view. (Thanks, President Nelson!) It assumes a sort of "steady state", in that what we see happening around us at this moment reflects what will inevitably happen in the vastly distant future. Like VASTLY distant. Like so much so that the entire life of the universe from its inception ("big bang") until  now, roughly 13.7 thousand million years, accounts for 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the time shown. If the age of the universe were represented by the width of a proton, this video purports to represent a time period represented by 100,000 times the width of the entire present universe itself.
    And therein lies the problem. We have no way to confirm our extrapolation of current observations and ideas through such a fantastically long time scale. Indeed, the video is, at best, conjecture. I see it as more a nihilistic fantasy. I admit I have nothing better to offer, cosmologically speaking. But that is the purpose of religion, to infuse purpose and relationship into a universe of things. Cosmology says nothing about purpose.
    Remember, we are here in proton-neutron-electron-based bodies exactly because we wanted the further progression that such a type of matter offers us. By taking upon ourselves bodies of such elements, we render ourselves capable of interacting with, influencing, and building things out of that same matter. Based on that idea alone, I reject the nihilistic take of the video that things will simply keep going on for literally unimaginable periods of time, growing ever dimmer and more entropic until...well, never, because (as the video states) time will have lost meaning.
    Section 84 of the Doctrine and Covenants tells of a time, much closer than 200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years away, when "Satan is bound and time is no longer". That's a future I can look forward to.
  10. Like
    Traveler reacted to CV75 in Heavenly Parents   
    In mortality, patriarchs organize us both in terms of flesh and blood (physical organization of DNA), family and larger units (social organization), and covenants (spiritual organization).
    The transitions between intelligence and spirit and spirit to separably connected spirit and body (soul) to inseparably connected soul are forms of death and birth.
    The common thread in organizing others is priesthood, a fullness of which requires a couple acting in marriage. The organization of oneself is agency, but requires association with those less advanced and more advanced in order to choose to progress.
    You were already what you are in your great-great-great-grandparents' DNA, and in Adam an Eve's DNA, and in any other co-eternal states and estates. At the same time, you will never again be what you were an hour ago, or as an intelligence eons ago.
  11. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Conference October 3-4, 2020   
    One of my greatest experiences of life was basic training in the army.  There were no social filters.  We were not divided by intelligence, race, size, health, abilities or any other notable characteristic.   In addition we were all treated like the worthless scum of the earth.  Anyone that stood out for any reason was treated badly just for standing out.  I was very quickly singled out because I knelt beside my bunk on our first night to say my usual nightly prayers.  In addition, I did not swear, smoke, drink or brag about abusing women.  Enough about me.
    Every morning we all got up at the same time - no one was allowed to get up early or late.  We were all required to do the same thing.  Everyone had to shave weather they needed to or not.  We were all required to go to the bathroom.  We all got dressed in exactly the same style of cloths and were required to wear our cloths exactly the same.  If anyone did not follow the rules and requirements - we were all punished.  On occasion we were punished just for the fun of it.  We all went to breakfast at the same time and to the same place and ate the same food.  We could not leave the mess hall until everyone was done eating.  Every hour of every day we all did the same things.  If anyone did not qualify a minimum standard we were all punished and reprimanded for it.  Many times we were all required to do the same thing over and over until everyone got it right.  If there was ever a fight or disagreement with anyone among us; we were all required to "suffer" because of it.  Everywhere we went we had to be instep with each other - we even had to all swing our arms while walking in unison.
    It is spoken in scripture that in certain societies there were no rich or poor, no distinction between bond or free.  This experience of basic training is the closest I have ever been in my life to a social structure without prejudices.  I developed friendships with individuals that otherwise I would not even say hello to on a street.  I learned things about people different from me that I would not come to know by any other means.
    Jesus said to love everyone and to even have compassion for our enemies.  I have a difficult time with compassion - especially with what I think are "stupid people".  My wife is the opposite.   She is popular with everybody.  She does not even care who wins silly card games - even if someone cheats or changes the rules.  She just likes everybody.  And regardless of what someone is going through or feels at any given moment she understands and cares.  Mostly, she puts up with me.  She is just about the only person I know that is without prejudice - but in scripture it is called - "without guile".
     
    The Traveler
  12. Like
    Traveler reacted to CV75 in Heavenly Parents   
    It makes perfect sense when there are so many estates the coeternal beings go through at a different times and paces.
  13. Like
    Traveler reacted to CV75 in Heavenly Parents   
    As long as gender is an essential characteristic and marriage requires a man and a woman, sexual means cannot be avoided whether through procreation or adoption. In either case, many separate processes and functions must be carried out that are unique to each parent.
  14. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Conference October 3-4, 2020   
    I think you need to be more aware.  One lesson of life is that it is almost impossible to find something when you are not looking for it.  I have a friend that is what is called a minority.  He married a Stake President's daughter and the concerns that should not have been were obvious.   I would like to say I have no pre-existing judgments but I do.  I have religious prejudices - though I have @prisonchaplain to thank for helping me to overcome feelings concerning Evangelicals - I still have a way to go.   
    I have been asked many times how I can believe in G-d and evolution.  But the sad part is that I am as likely to be as prejudice towards someone asking such a question than perhaps they are concerning me.
    Why do I bring up other forms of prejudice other than racisms?  Because scientifically there is only one human race.  Whatever prejudice there is - it is the same.   Sometimes racism is seen when it is not intended.  For example, I grew up in a society (town) where there was not a single black family or even an individual.  I had never talked to a black person until I was in the army.  In addition I have never lived anywhere that cotton was grown.  However, from my youth there was a term that was used to describe things that do not work as planned or are inferior.  The term is "cotton picking".  This is a term I grew up using rather than cursing.   I used it recently while helping a neighbor that began laughing at me.  His point was that in today society it is worse than swearing.  
    Being sensitive to other's feeling is a great failing of mine.  My wife is often reminding me of my rudeness.  Just because I am not aware or not intending to be rude does not mean that it not so.  Sometime the worse part about being rude is when we are so insensitive, unware and uncaring that we are rude (or dare I say raciest) without a clue what we are doing.
     
    The Traveler
  15. Thanks
    Traveler got a reaction from prisonchaplain in The Fall - Blessings or Punishments?   
    At this point I believe it is important to point out a few critical elements from our doctrine both for @romans8 and @prisonchaplain.  I will begin with the doctrine of a pre-existence.  The pre-existence is to be understood as what occurred prior to the creation story and Eden epoch given us in Genesis.   In the pre-existence we all lived as spirits in heaven with G-d - the Father of our spirits.  In the pre-existence there was a great council.  At this pre-existence council G-d the Father presented his Great Plan of Happiness - also known as the Plan of Salvation. 
    The Plan of Salvation encompassed what the scriptures call the "Declaration of all things from the end to the beginning" (See Isaiah 46:10).  This declaration started with the creation of what is now our earth and the "heaven" wherein this earth would reside.  The next part of the plan following the creation is what this thread is all about.  The Plan of Salvation was for a man and his wife to fall from grace and be exiled from the Father.  From modern revelation we know that this fall would take place through a "transgression".
    I would point out a very important notion.  When the spirit of Michael was placed into the physical body man became a living sole and that man was called Adam.  We are told that Adam forgot everything and had become as a small child.  According to the covenant - Adam and his wife Eve would partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  Adam as an exercise of his Agency made a covenant with G-d to partake of the fruit (which is symbolic of something we do not understand in this life).  This fall was part of the plan of G-d.  
    I will now skip to another very important part of the plan - and this was for a Messiah that would not sin but would redeem mankind of all their sins.  We have to understand that the planning of a fall included a Messiah - a Savior to save all mankind from this fall.  There were two that would be the Messiah.  Jesus was the first.  Lucifer was the second to volunteer but with a caveat.  He wanted two things for his taking this role.  First was that he wanted all the glory for himself - he wanted the credit which would put him on the thrown of the Father.  The second he wanted to destroy the agency of man - he wanted to force everyone to comply with him and do as he commanded.
    Without going into all the details - the proposal of Lucifer was rejected and caused a great division in heaven.  A three part division.  Lucifer took a third part of the spirits of heaven and declared war on G-d and his Plan of Salvation (or Plan of Happiness).  This war against G-d and His Plan of Salvation continues to this day and is why he (Satan) is tempting us in an effort to divert us from G-d and his Plan of Salvation.
    I want to point out a couple of things from scripture - first is what is given in Isaiah 46:10 where G-d makes a covenant and promise to complete his Plan of Salvation saying, "and I will do all my pleasure".  The next point comes from Ecclesiastes 1:9-10:
    Note that in verse 10 we are told that all things were of old time that was before - I believe this is before man was created as a living sole - in the pre-existence.  I reference this scripture so that we can understand that G-d planned and determined all things that would take place.  That in the pre-existence we agreed to fall and suffer death but there were some that did not agree and in the exercise of their agency did not agree to G-d Plan and were excluded from the fall that was an integral part of the plan.
    There was nothing that has happened that has ruined or changed G-d's Plan.  It has stood without flaw and has worked perfectly with the sacrifice unto death by Christ and his resurrection to glory.  Please note that as testified in Ecclesiastes - it was all known and planed so that when it occurred - it was not new or a surprise - especially to G-d the is the author of the plan and that the plan and all it parts are his will and pleasure.
    I would say one last thing.  I have not encountered a greater understanding of G-d and his plan of salvation for mankind than is provided through the prophets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that the only way to understand these things in this life is to be baptized by covenant, receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by covenant  and then to continue by covenant to learn of G-d and his plan in his Holy Temple.  That these things has been restored in our day as part of the Great Plan of Salvation and preparation as promised through covenants that must come forth to prepare a covenant people to meet Christ when He comes in glory.  Which is quickly approaching. 
     
    The Traveler
  16. Haha
    Traveler reacted to Vort in What happened to MormonGator?   
    Well, I didn't say you were translated into English.
  17. Haha
    Traveler reacted to prisonchaplain in What happened to MormonGator?   
    So...if you could get my wife that interpretation she would be most grateful.
  18. Like
    Traveler reacted to pam in What happened to MormonGator?   
    Should be.  PC is one of the best people I've met.  And yes I've met him in person.      
  19. Okay
    Traveler reacted to Vort in What happened to MormonGator?   
    A translated being...
  20. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to prisonchaplain in What happened to MormonGator?   
    BUT...I am still here.
  21. Like
    Traveler reacted to laronius in The Law of Consecration and Stewardship   
    You make a great point. It's easy to focus on the economical part of the law of consecration but there is much more to it. I know personally I probably covet my time more than my money. Perhaps the focus in ministering is intended to help us become more consecrated personally.
    Would you care to elaborate on your comment about the family in relation to the united order?
  22. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to scottyg in The Fall - Blessings or Punishments?   
    Correct. They knew that they were transgressing when they partook of the fruit...God told them specifically not to partake of it. I think Pres. Oaks puts it very well below...
    “The contrast between a sin and a transgression reminds us of the careful wording in the second article of faith: ‘We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression’ . It also echoes a familiar distinction in the law. Some acts, like murder, are crimes because they are inherently wrong. Other acts, like operating without a license, are crimes only because they are legally prohibited. Under these distinctions, the act that produced the Fall was not a sin—inherently wrong—but a transgression—wrong because it was formally prohibited. These words are not always used to denote something different, but this distinction seems meaningful in the circumstances of the Fall” (Oct 1993 General Conference)
  23. Like
    Traveler reacted to laronius in Conference October 3-4, 2020   
    That part of my response was actually meant to be tongue in cheek. Maybe I should have used an emoji. 😜🙄😳🤯 
  24. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from NeedleinA in Conference October 3-4, 2020   
    I can agree with most of what you have said - where I disagree is in your use of the term "systemic".  If we judge things on race alone and nothing else - discounting individuals, circumstances and all other things that could possibly apply - that is obviously racism.  The word and idea of "systemic" is exactly that.  It is the notion that race alone and only - and no other factor applies - is the very essence of racism.  To believe systemic racism, of necessity, makes the believer a racist. 
     
    The Traveler
  25. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from NeedleinA in Conference October 3-4, 2020   
    I can agree with most of what you have said - where I disagree is in your use of the term "systemic".  If we judge things on race alone and nothing else - discounting individuals, circumstances and all other things that could possibly apply - that is obviously racism.  The word and idea of "systemic" is exactly that.  It is the notion that race alone and only - and no other factor applies - is the very essence of racism.  To believe systemic racism, of necessity, makes the believer a racist. 
     
    The Traveler