pam Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 As there have been many lately who have scoffed at our "feelings" on knowing the truth verses any kind of tangible proof. I found this quote today. I felt it really relative to many of the "debates" as of late. True religion is a feeling. It is common in anti-Mormon literature for attacks to be made on prayer and on trusting one’s feelings as sources for obtaining truth. In the realm of spiritual understanding both are fundamental. Truth is felt. Falsehood is often clothed in erudite and sophisticated arguments. One does not have to be able to refute the argument to know that it is false. Truth feels good; falsehood does not. Christ spoke of the inability of the wicked to “understand with their heart” (Matthew 13:15), while the righteous “understood in their hearts” things too marvelous to utter (3 Nephi 19; 33-34). Describing the spirit of revelation for Joseph Smith, the Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart” (D&C 8:2). Because of their wickedness, such understanding was lost to Nephi’s rebellious brothers.Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, 4 vols., 1:, p.137 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seydlitz77 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Good quote! We can also reference 1 Nephi 17:45. Laman and Lemuel were "past feeling" and so they could not recieve revelation from God save by more direct and overt methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodhigirlsmiles Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 As there have been many lately who have scoffed at our "feelings" on knowing the truth verses any kind of tangible proof. I found this quote today. I felt it really relative to many of the "debates" as of late.there will be no scoffing at "feelings" from me! that's all i have been having lately and it's been throwing me for a loop! new feelings.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawazu Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The concept of God cannot be disproved; therefore, God is more a question of philosophy than the scientific method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmoroniRM Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 What is interesting is the feelings we get ARE absolute proof. It is reproduceable evidence that anybody can find out for themselves. To determine is something is true, there are usually certain steps\ways to validate it. There are certain tests to prove if what you are seeing is a diamond or diamonique, Gold, or fools-gold. Any other test doesn't work. The way the Lord has set up for us to obtain proof of this latter-day work, is through the whispers of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of men. To obtain it, they must ask of God in faith and real intent. Any other means to "prove" it will ultimately fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seydlitz77 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The concept of God cannot be disproved; therefore, God is more a question of philosophy than the scientific method.The creator of the Scientific Method even said that his method could not be used to explore the nature of the God because it did not have the necessary faculties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawazu Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The creator of the Scientific Method even said that his method could not be used to explore the nature of the God because it did not have the necessary faculties.I am interested. Do you have a source on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seydlitz77 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hey Kawazu I'll get it to you, I have it at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The problem is feelings are only proof to one person. The only way feelings can be "shared" with others is by communicating them 2nd hand. Therefore, the only way one will believe that your feelings are "proof" is if that person trusts you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faded Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 EXCELLENT post Pam. Thank you. As there have been many lately who have scoffed at our "feelings" on knowing the truth verses any kind of tangible proof. I found this quote today. I felt it really relative to many of the "debates" as of late. I would add to this somewhat. Anti-Mormons typically claim that they embrace "Biblical Christianity." So how do "Biblical Christians" prove that the Bible is true, especially to the non-believers? They tell them to pray to God to know if it is real, that's how. And how will God answer them? Feelings. Their entire thread of logic is completely hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmoroniRM Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Adendum: One of the reasons Anti-Mormon's attack the idea of praying about it and "feeling" the truth is because they know it is something they can't stop or impede. Some websites teach that you shouldn't pray about it, which arrives at Nephi's words, that the spirit that teaches a man not to pray is not of me. If Satan can keep people from praying, then he can keep them from getting answers.http://api.ning.com/files/9BTy*yVPAWslsHymg0UguSaMiyLCfUtFcixlQcYXyvguWMOeLoIdC34xOPplNVLpZnqzBGOvgLIUNg5uxmm*FPe2qSCIkJCp/honesty.jpgAnd yes, it is absolute proof for one person. All missionary work telling people that we have proof, and they can find it for themselves if they follow the same steps. If they do, they find proof. If they don't follow those steps, then they can never know. If it were universal proof, then what necessity would there be for faith? Edited March 20, 2009 by captmoroniRM Tried fixing picture link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomk Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Those who have felt the witness, know that it is valid.Some people want proof ahead of time, before they will believe.It just does not work that way. Laman and Lemuel had an angel appear unto them! And afterwards they still murmured! Miracles do not create faith. Faith precedes the miracle. I don't know why -- I just know that this is how God set things up down here. It has to do with eternal law; how the universe works. The natural way of things is to sow, nuture, then reap. Demanding a miracle is like asking to reap the harvest without sowing and nurturing first.The irony is - GOD DOES GIVE US PROOF!!!But like Justice said, it is from God to that person, individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I don't understand other Christians who say that we shouldn't rely on our feelings as testimony. This is a serious question for those Christians who believe that. How do you know that Jesus is your personal Savior? How do you know that the Bible is true? When you pray and receive answers, how do you know them to be answers?I don't want to sound like I'm bashing on Christians...I truly don't understand if one can't rely on his/her feelings on the matter, then how does one have faith in something that can't be seen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I am not much of a theologian. I have taken the time to understand history but I would never argue the fine issues of theology. I don't know enough for that. However, my witness of the Gospel and the Atonement is founded in what I absolutely know to be the truth. I knew it almost a decade before I found the Church. I drifted from congregation to congregation, from denomination to denomination; all over Los Angeles, searching for that unmistakenly "feeling" that I had felt so many years before. I wanted it again but I could not find it until the night I read the Book of Mormon and prayed. God is the arbiter of ALL truth; it belongs to Him and it is His very essence. All that desire to know the truth MUST pray to the Father in the name of Christ since it is the Gospel of salvation in His Son that we preach. Those that suggest not to pray do so in a spirit of enmity and resentme that is contrary to the spirit of charity and pure love of Christ. Edited March 21, 2009 by Islander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 EXCELLENT post Pam. Thank you. I would add to this somewhat. Anti-Mormons typically claim that they embrace "Biblical Christianity." So how do "Biblical Christians" prove that the Bible is true, especially to the non-believers? They tell them to pray to God to know if it is real, that's how. And how will God answer them? Feelings. Their entire thread of logic is completely hypocritical.Actually, my favorite response when I asked how do you know the Bible is the word of God was, "It says so." to which my response was, "So does the Book of Mormon." He didn't find the argument any more compelling then I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missingsomething Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Leave it to beaver... ooops I mean pam... way to go pammy whammy. I love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daenvgiell Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 ok, so what happens if you don't trust your feelings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I don't understand other Christians who say that we shouldn't rely on our feelings as testimony. This is a serious question for those Christians who believe that. How do you know that Jesus is your personal Savior? How do you know that the Bible is true? When you pray and receive answers, how do you know them to be answers?I don't want to sound like I'm bashing on Christians...I truly don't understand if one can't rely on his/her feelings on the matter, then how does one have faith in something that can't be seen?It isn't that you shouldn't rely on your feeling but that you shouldn't ONLY rely on you feelings.(not that that's what LDS do but it is the perception) Confirmation from the spirit is as much a part for mainstream Christianity as it is for LDS.(I was at the hospital today reading the plan of salvation (non LDS version) and they put a large emphasis on the spirit confirming the truth on the Bible.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 As there have been many lately who have scoffed at our "feelings" on knowing the truth verses any kind of tangible proof. I found this quote today. I felt it really relative to many of the "debates" as of late.True religion is a feeling. It is common in anti-Mormon literature for attacks to be made on prayer and on trusting one’s feelings as sources for obtaining truth. In the realm of spiritual understanding both are fundamental. Truth is felt. Falsehood is often clothed in erudite and sophisticated arguments. One does not have to be able to refute the argument to know that it is false. Truth feels good; falsehood does not.Christ spoke of the inability of the wicked to “understand with their heart” (Matthew 13:15), while the righteous “understood in their hearts” things too marvelous to utter (3 Nephi 19; 33-34). Describing the spirit of revelation for Joseph Smith, the Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart” (D&C 8:2). Because of their wickedness, such understanding was lost to Nephi’s rebellious brothers.Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, 4 vols., 1:, p.137 The problem is that to a hammer everything looks and feels like a nail. This to me is the great meaning of agency - that is to put aside your propensity to be a hammer and to become a saint (an agent of G-d) and to see, understand and feel things through the eyes and heart of G-d.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim108 Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 As there have been many lately who have scoffed at our "feelings" on knowing the truth verses any kind of tangible proof. I found this quote today. I felt it really relative to many of the "debates" as of late. True religion is a feeling. It is common in anti-Mormon literature for attacks to be made on prayer and on trusting one’s feelings as sources for obtaining truth. In the realm of spiritual understanding both are fundamental. Truth is felt. Falsehood is often clothed in erudite and sophisticated arguments. One does not have to be able to refute the argument to know that it is false. Truth feels good; falsehood does not. Christ spoke of the inability of the wicked to “understand with their heart” (Matthew 13:15), while the righteous “understood in their hearts” things too marvelous to utter (3 Nephi 19; 33-34). Describing the spirit of revelation for Joseph Smith, the Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart” (D&C 8:2). Because of their wickedness, such understanding was lost to Nephi’s rebellious brothers.Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, 4 vols., 1:, p.137"Falsehood is often clothed in erudite and sophisticated arguments."Believe in Jesus. I hope that is not too complicated. God Bless, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 We do have feelings and yearnings for the Divine. We seek to believe in order to find our truths relative to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 "Falsehood is often clothed in erudite and sophisticated arguments."Believe in Jesus. I hope that is not too complicated. God Bless, JimAs long as you understand that you cannot claim to believe in Christ and do nothing about it.Satan and his angels "believe" in Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim108 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 As long as you understand that you cannot claim to believe in Christ and do nothing about it.Satan and his angels "believe" in Christ.These are true words. Thank You, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_Girl Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 How do you know that the Bible is true? When you pray and receive answers, how do you know them to be answers?Easy, because every town mentioned in the Bible you can still visit today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Easy, because every town mentioned in the Bible you can still visit today.Except maybe Sodom and Gomorrah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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