Brain damage and the soul.

[bmy-]

I was just curious about everyones take on this.. there's numerous documented cases of people having traumatic experiences or suffering from severe head injuries.. and when they finally recover they're literally a (changed) different person.

How does this jive with our theology? With the concept of a soul?

One of my best friends recently.. he had an experience which nobody really knows much about. Let's just leave it at.. he's no longer himself. Where did he go? Is he still him or what?

Our 'soul' seems to have very little to do with 'who we are' if damage to the brain can influence it as easily as it does. I guess my question is this --

If the soul is literally 'who we are'.. then why is our 'self' so easily influenced by the brain and damage to the brain?

Edited April 19, 2009 by bmy-

[DigitalShadow]

I was just curious about everyones take on this.. there's numerous documented cases of people having traumatic experiences or suffering from severe head injuries.. and when they finally recover they're literally a (changed) different person.

How does this jive with our theology? With the concept of a soul?

One of my best friends recently.. he had an experience which nobody really knows much about. Let's just leave it at.. he's no longer himself. Where did he go? Is he still him or what?

Our 'soul' seems to have very little to do with 'who we are' if damage to the brain can influence it as easily as it does. I guess my question is this --

If the soul is literally 'who we are'.. then why is our 'self' so easily influenced by the brain and damage to the brain?

I often wonder what the religious take on this is. Personally I believe that 'who we are' is the unique pattern of neural connections in our brain that was influenced by genetics and environment, so it never really bothered me too much. I've also seen first hand just how different person's personality can be after a stroke or some other kind of brain damage.

Edited April 19, 2009 by DigitalShadow

[bmy-]

I often wonder what the religious take on this is. Personally I believe that 'who we are' is the unique pattern of neural connections in our brain that was influenced by genetics and environment, so it never really bothered me too much. I've also seen first hand just how different person's personality can be after a stroke or some other kind of brain damage.

That would seem like the best explanation, imo. I'm curious to see what everyone else here thinks.

[Moksha]

Bmy, something like this did happen to my son after he came out of a coma. However, I would describe it as a change in personality, rather than the soul. It was a change for the better. Unfortunately, he was back to his old teenage self within three months.

[RachelleDrew]

^Thankfully he wound up being okay. But i'm sure it was bittersweet to see him acting like a teen again.

[Moksha]

It is amazing how young people have such an ability to bounce back.

[Hemidakota]

I was just curious about everyones take on this.. there's numerous documented cases of people having traumatic experiences or suffering from severe head injuries.. and when they finally recover they're literally a (changed) different person.

How does this jive with our theology? With the concept of a soul?

One of my best friends recently.. he had an experience which nobody really knows much about. Let's just leave it at.. he's no longer himself. Where did he go? Is he still him or what?

Our 'soul' seems to have very little to do with 'who we are' if damage to the brain can influence it as easily as it does. I guess my question is this --

If the soul is literally 'who we are'.. then why is our 'self' so easily influenced by the brain and damage to the brain?

There was a posting here that answered a quite of few questions concerning how the brain the functions and what happens to those suffered brain damage. I will need to look for the Youtube links for you. It may add some insights to your question.

[Hemidakota]

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...3AF2183817089A

LDSNET Thread: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/17415-your-brain-vids-how-does-relate-gospel.html

[DigitalShadow]

Bmy, something like this did happen to my son after he came out of a coma. However, I would describe it as a change in personality, rather than the soul. It was a change for the better. Unfortunately, he was back to his old teenage self within three months.

Have you ever known someone who had a serious stroke? I think that the brain damage change is much different than the near death experience change (I've seen that too).

[Kawazu]

I often wonder what the religious take on this is. Personally I believe that 'who we are' is the unique pattern of neural connections in our brain that was influenced by genetics and environment, so it never really bothered me too much. I've also seen first hand just how different person's personality can be after a stroke or some other kind of brain damage.

Amazon.com: Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief: Andrew Newberg, Eugene D'Aquili, Vince Rause: Books

Not really about brain damage--the researchers do consider the impact of brain and biology upon a person's faith, though. Generally, a good read. If I recall correctly, the book neither promoted faith nor rejected it. Instead, among other things, the book gave a neurological perspective on the religious experience.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Kawazu

[pam]

How would this also relate to someone who has Alzheimers? To me that falls into the same category.

[Gwen]

in my opinion.... the soul is defined as the body and the spirit. we existed as spirits before coming to this world. there we grew and developed a personality. we bring that with us to this earth. when we get here experiences in this life shape and change us, our personality continues to grow. just as we grow and change over a lifetime. someone may be a shy and scared child but grow up to be outgoing and confidante. who they were didn't "go" anywhere, it grew and changed and developed over a lifetime of experiences. maybe the outgoing is really more of what their spirit's personality was before they were born, just had to learn how to express it.

as with everything in this life there are limitations we have due to our physical bodies. if someone is born without an arm or they lose an arm in an accident it's gone, but their spirit is still complete. their spirit arm doesn't "go" anywhere. however, it can't be seen or used. they must learn to function with the restrictions of their body (which will continue to shape their personality). someone may have been a great member of a heavenly choir before their birth and then be born into a body that is deaf or mute... they may push past it and still express their musical talent or it may have to wait till the resurrection to be experienced physically. either way the gift didn't "go" anywhere, "they" still exist.

it is no different for brain related issues. when someone is depressed due to a chemical imbalance it may seem that they have left. they aren't them self. who they are is still there but being repressed and held back by physical limitations. when someone has brain injury and they "improve"... maybe this side of them always existed but they chose to hold it back due to fears of this world, the experience changed them enough to start living wholly.

you also have to ask yourself how are you defining "them". if the definition of them is their favorite food and color and other such preferences that can change with or without brain injury. we develop those preferences due to how our brain interprets the physical world around us, if how our brain functions changes we may change our preferences. those things in my opinion aren't "who we are".

the brain plays a vital role in how we perceive this world and how we respond to it. if it's not working right it will create limitations on how our spirit can be expressed. our spirit still exists, our traits, talents, personality, etc. those physical experiences combine with what our spirit brought with us to develop our soul. we are in a constant state of growth and progression, that was the whole point of coming here, we were intended to change.

[Hemidakota]

Soul = mortal flesh + spiritual flesh + intelligence

[NeuroTypical]

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

LM asdf

[Hemidakota]

And the first adam [first human] came to being. []

[DigitalShadow]

you also have to ask yourself how are you defining "them". if the definition of them is their favorite food and color and other such preferences that can change with or without brain injury. we develop those preferences due to how our brain interprets the physical world around us, if how our brain functions changes we may change our preferences. those things in my opinion aren't "who we are".

I define "them" as how they interact with other people. I'm not just talking about a different favorite food or something, imagine talking to your best friend and they still claim to be the same person but don't act anything like the person you know. In my opinion brain damage can change far more than just limiting how certain things can be expressed.

[Gargantuan]

I was just curious about everyones take on this.. there's numerous documented cases of people having traumatic experiences or suffering from severe head injuries.. and when they finally recover they're literally a (changed) different person.

How does this jive with our theology? With the concept of a soul?

One of my best friends recently.. he had an experience which nobody really knows much about. Let's just leave it at.. he's no longer himself. Where did he go? Is he still him or what?

Our 'soul' seems to have very little to do with 'who we are' if damage to the brain can influence it as easily as it does. I guess my question is this --

If the soul is literally 'who we are'.. then why is our 'self' so easily influenced by the brain and damage to the brain?

The body and brain are inseparable. The soul is a state after the Resurrection. The phases of mortality our body experiences in life are intended to give our eternal spirit the experiences we could not have without the influence of the body, functioning as the filter in mortality(so to speak). What we gain now, through mortal experience will benefit the final state of the soul. Nothing is wasted, whatever experience we have in this life will rise with us in the Resurrection. If we have sought evil all of our days in life, it will affect us at that phase (Resurrection) of our eternal journey. If we have sought for good in the face of great challenges, then it is my opinion that the Atonement of Jesus Christ will make up for those with brain damage the difference of what they would have gained if they had not experienced such challenges. They must endure well now and much more good will follow. Much more could be stated about this issue. Vaya Con Dias.

[Gargantuan]

How would this also relate to someone who has Alzheimers? To me that falls into the same category.

Alzheimer’s disease is also found within the biochemical process of the brain. By way of the biochemical and DNA function of each individual neuron it will save an imprint of the memory patterns and consequently all will be recorded in the brain. All good experiences and bad will be saved. It is vital to the purpose of life that this process work as it is programmed through the original DNA (46 chromosomes) given to you by your parents at conception. By way of the Atonement of the great Messiah we all will be able to retain those experiences needed for gaining knowledge that will benefit the progress of our eternal journey. Vaya Con Dias

[Carter]

I often wonder what the religious take on this is. Personally I believe that 'who we are' is the unique pattern of neural connections in our brain that was influenced by genetics and environment, so it never really bothered me too much. I've also seen first hand just how different person's personality can be after a stroke or some other kind of brain damage.

Would this then essentially make someone a different person? If that is the case would a person develop another soul? As the person would be essentially different because of the different connections in the brain; some being severed ect.

[HiJolly]

This is an AWESOME experience. Well worth a listen.

Jill Bolte Taylor's stroke of insight | Video on TED.com

HiJolly

[spiritseeker]

IMO the soul has nothing to do with changes in the brain or any other human function. I work on an Alzheimer unit and though they don't always know everything they have sporadic moments where they remember. I have a couple of patients who actually have moments where they begin to cry and when you go to comfort them and find out why they are crying they say; "Oh this da*n Alzheimers I hate it so much!" Their cognizant of the disease... But still they are the same person they always were... I have come to learn in my life there are so many things that happen to us and in this life we will not understand the why of it. But , in the reunion with our Heavenly Father we will. That gives me hope and should for your friend and others. I also had a friend who was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder formerly know as Multiple Personality Disorder . But, I believe that though she had this disorder at the core of her was one soul, albeit with many personalities. It certainly is a thought provoking question you've raised...

[DigitalShadow]

Would this then essentially make someone a different person? If that is the case would a person develop another soul? As the person would be essentially different because of the different connections in the brain; some being severed ect.

Yes, it essentially would be a different person in my opinion. I also don't really believe we have a soul (as nice of a thought as it would be) primarily because of things like this.

[Hemidakota]

IMO the soul has nothing to do with changes in the brain or any other human function. I work on an Alzheimer unit and though they don't always know everything they have sporadic moments where they remember. I have a couple of patients who actually have moments where they begin to cry and when you go to comfort them and find out why they are crying they say; "Oh this da*n Alzheimers I hate it so much!" Their cognizant of the disease... But still they are the same person they always were... I have come to learn in my life there are so many things that happen to us and in this life we will not understand the why of it. But , in the reunion with our Heavenly Father we will. That gives me hope and should for your friend and others. I also had a friend who was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder formerly know as Multiple Personality Disorder . But, I believe that though she had this disorder at the core of her was one soul, albeit with many personalities. It certainly is a thought provoking question you've raised...

What constitutes a soul? SOUL=Mortal Body + Spirit Body + Intelligence

If a person who has brain damage from what ever reason, based on limited capacity, the judgment is only for that period of time prior. If a person still has the capacity to live the given gospel standards, judgment is based on what capacity is there. Heavenly Father and the Savior are aware of the person capacity and limitations of what had occurred.

[Moksha]

Soul = mortal flesh + spiritual flesh + intelligence

No square roots involved?

[Hemidakota]

It is a bad habit for me to show something simple.