the story of the Prodigal Son

[lost87]

The whole story of the prodigal son is a great one, but there is a verse there at the end that always throws me off and kinda casts a shadow over the sweet message of forgiveness for me. Basically what I understand of the story is that the prodigal son asked to be given his inheritance from his father (v. 12) and then went off into the world and wasted all of it (v. 13). Then he realizes that he has nothing and returns to his father in humility and his father welcomes him back into the family with open arms (v.14-24). Everyone is happy for the return of the son except for the other son...for good reason I think. Then the father explain in v. 31 "thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine". Thats the verse that I always get stuck on. It should work that way I think, the people who have always been more or less on the Lord's side ought to have all that He has. In the story the prodigal son doesn't get back the inheritance that he wasted away. He gets welcomed back, but can't ever gain everything that his father has again. Thats where I feel I am. I know its possible to repent and be forgiven and thats wonderful and amazing, but people keep saying that its possible to still obtain all that the Father has.......this story doesn't really support that theory and it confuses me. I feel like my progress is limited and I'm ok with that because its a very justified limitation like this story illustrates, but it throws me off when people explain differently....both can't really be true, so do you know which is?

[Moksha]

The idea of true and complete forgiveness is not easily grasped.

[dazed-and-confused]

my sweet sister......dont forget that you have "issues" you are dealing with that may ..get in your way..of fully accepting and understanding......issues of guilt, shame...the depth of your repentance......and i do so believe that your are repentant.....the problem may be that you might feel that you may never be able to do enough...is that a possibility?

if not, then what do you think is in your way?..afterall, if we knock, is the door not opened?

we have attachments that can hinder our communion with HF...some of the lessons we need to learn and overcome......worldly attachment.

[Justice]

Think of "all that the Father has" as infinite and eternal, not as a group of things. There is plenty to go around. All His children can have all He has because what He offers isn't money or gold, but more knowledge and glory.

Think of the parable of the hired servants who showed up at different times during the day. Some worked all day while some only worked for an hour. Yet, He paid them all an equal wage.

[Traveler]

The whole story of the prodigal son is a great one, but there is a verse there at the end that always throws me off and kinda casts a shadow over the sweet message of forgiveness for me. Basically what I understand of the story is that the prodigal son asked to be given his inheritance from his father (v. 12) and then went off into the world and wasted all of it (v. 13). Then he realizes that he has nothing and returns to his father in humility and his father welcomes him back into the family with open arms (v.14-24). Everyone is happy for the return of the son except for the other son...for good reason I think. Then the father explain in v. 31 "thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine". Thats the verse that I always get stuck on. It should work that way I think, the people who have always been more or less on the Lord's side ought to have all that He has. In the story the prodigal son doesn't get back the inheritance that he wasted away. He gets welcomed back, but can't ever gain everything that his father has again. Thats where I feel I am. I know its possible to repent and be forgiven and thats wonderful and amazing, but people keep saying that its possible to still obtain all that the Father has.......this story doesn't really support that theory and it confuses me. I feel like my progress is limited and I'm ok with that because its a very justified limitation like this story illustrates, but it throws me off when people explain differently....both can't really be true, so do you know which is?

One problem is that so few people do not understand what prodigal means. Generally it is thought to mean evil or wicked. In reality it means extravagant and wasteful.

The Traveler

[ehkape]

Think of "all that the Father has" as infinite and eternal, not as a group of things. There is plenty to go around. All His children can have all He has because what He offers isn't money or gold, but more knowledge and glory.

In addition: His plan for us is to return to him as family and become like him. I think that means to have "all that the Father has".

If there would be any ammount of riches to be handed out, there could only be one single person out of all his children, who could inherit "all".

But that would also mean that all other children would end up with literally nothing.

Since he promises everybody who comes unto him everlasting life, it has to be an inheritance that you can give away without "loosing" anything yourself.

For example, if you walk around smiling, most people will smile back at you. It doesn't matter if you pass it on to one person or hundreds - there is no limit to it because you can't run out of smiles.

The inheritance our Heavenly Father will give us seems to be similar: Happiness, wisdom, glory, etc.

"Things" you can share 100% without running out of stock :)

So I don't think your progress is limited at all.

[Guest Alana]

Is the inheritance in this parable to be related to the inheritance from our Heavenly Father? I believe in this parable the inheritance is equal to blessings and peace during our mortal life and being back in the fathers presence is symbolism for returning to our Heavenly Father, being in his presence, and receiving a fullness of eternal blessings.

A small disclaimer, this is how I interpret this parable, and it being a parable, has many levels and I'm limited to my understanding, so just letting you know this is what I get from it.

You said the verse that bothers you is "thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine"

This imply that the prodigal son will not have what the faithful son does, and it's true. The prodigal son does not have a life of peace and steady blessings. That's what I see the inheritance as, when we have the inheritance, we have a place to always turn for support and comfort during our mortal lives. When we remain faithful we can learn the lessons that need to be learned while leaning on the Lord. The prodigal son can and does receive the great reward, the eternal reward (exemplified by being in his fathers presence), but only after much pain and suffering, fear and sorrow.

There are things in my life that aren't as good as they could be because of my past sins, even though I've fully repented. My getting married was part of us getting back on the straight and narrow, and now that means I'm married to an inactive man whom I'm not sealed to, and we're not sealed to our children. I often have thoughts that I won't be able to receive all the blessings that Heavenly Father could have given me, that I'll be at best an angel in the Celestial kingdom, not a Goddess. So these are my doubts, and I know they are fueled by the father of lies. I know this because when I listen to the Spirit, it whispers of encouragement and love and worthiness. Worthiness to go to the temple, and become endowed. It was Awesome by the way;)

So I guess it's like a vase. If we break a vase, we can pay for it, buy a new one, glue it back together, but there's nothing that will bring that vase back exactly like it was, our lives are forever changed by our sins, that particular mortal inheritance is gone. Luckily the owner of that vase, our loving Heavenly Father, is ok with this, has mercy and forgives us, and He can show us how to sculpt an even better vase that's stronger and better and more beautiful, even if we had to shed a few tears along the way.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Alana

[Hemidakota]

Elder Orson F. Whitney, interpreting a statement of Joseph Smith, taught in a 1929 general conference: "The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or in the life to come, they will return." I waited all my life—all my life—to hear that. So what can we do now? Elder Whitney says simply, "Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold onto them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God."

[Traveler]

In addition: His plan for us is to return to him as family and become like him. I think that means to have "all that the Father has".

If there would be any ammount of riches to be handed out, there could only be one single person out of all his children, who could inherit "all".

But that would also mean that all other children would end up with literally nothing.

Since he promises everybody who comes unto him everlasting life, it has to be an inheritance that you can give away without "loosing" anything yourself.

For example, if you walk around smiling, most people will smile back at you. It doesn't matter if you pass it on to one person or hundreds - there is no limit to it because you can't run out of smiles.

The inheritance our Heavenly Father will give us seems to be similar: Happiness, wisdom, glory, etc.

"Things" you can share 100% without running out of stock :)

So I don't think your progress is limited at all.

Ehkap: I find your post interesting. Perhaps the “riches” of G-d that we are told about are knowledge. There is an interesting scripture in the Gospel of John that connects knowledge of truth and how that knowledge makes us free.

If I understand the plan of salvation correctly there is some knowledge that comes only through experience of both good and evil. It is the necessity of experience that requires that we have physical and mortal experience as part of the plan of salvation. It is also my understanding that positive experience is the key. I define positive experience as all experiences we gain through obedience (faith in G-d) to covenants and also through repentance (again by faith in G-d) when we are disobedient.

Thus it become that as we follow the designated path or way that is customized specific for us as we face the trials of our covenants that we obtain G-d’s knowledge that enables us to become like him.

The Traveler

[Guest Alana]

I just read something and it totally made me think of this post:

President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Second Counselor in the First Presidency, has warned that “Satan might even misuse words from the scriptures that emphasize the justice of God, in order to imply that there is no mercy.”2 Whatever their source, Satan’s lies can take root in our minds and develop into feelings of depression, low self-worth, and inadequacy.

It's from this months Ensign, here is the link to the article. It is probably my favorite article in the entire issue, because everything it talked about made me think of myself and how I've thought and felt before.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Truths and Lies

[ehkape]

Thanks Alana for your thoughts. Something got me thinking:

I believe in this parable the inheritance is equal to blessings and peace during our mortal life ...

This imply that the prodigal son will not have what the faithful son does, and it's true. The prodigal son does not have a life of peace and steady blessings. That's what I see the inheritance as, when we have the inheritance, we have a place to always turn for support and comfort during our mortal lives. When we remain faithful we can learn the lessons that need to be learned while leaning on the Lord. The prodigal son can and does receive the great reward, the eternal reward (exemplified by being in his fathers presence), but only after much pain and suffering, fear and sorrow.

Isn't it our heavenly Fathers plan, for all of us to leave his presence and have this mortal experience with pain and sorrow so we can feel its difference to joy and peace. If we would have staied with the Father, we coulld not have made our own choices, there could be no progression beyond our premortal state.

So rather than feeling disadvantaged because of sins - and all of us have sinned and will continue to do so - I feel awed and humbled by the love of our savior Jesus Christ. He willingly gave his life for us! I believe his atonement to be infinite - and thats why he will cleanse me from my mistakes.

The prodigal son was forgiven and welcomed back. And I bet he learned some very important lessons on his journey. Lessons his brother who stayed at home probably didn't learn. After all, it was the brother who was jealous, revealing his hard heartedness even though he never strayed before.

I believe it all comes down to our Lord and Savior. Lets thank him for his love and not dwell on our weaknesses too much.

[FunkyTown]

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd weigh in with my own thoughts based upon another parable: The parable of the worker in the vineyard, which is Matthew 20:1-16

Matthew 20

1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

[Over43]

Being LDS, and sending this to a predominantly LDS audience I would like to direct the original poster to "Jesus of Nazareth" by Joseph Ratzinger (Benedict XVI). Starting at p. 202 he gives a very good break down of the parable of the Prodigal Son. I won't go itno detail, but it revealed some items that I had never though of before.

O.

[Hemidakota]

The whole story of the prodigal son is a great one, but there is a verse there at the end that always throws me off and kinda casts a shadow over the sweet message of forgiveness for me. Basically what I understand of the story is that the prodigal son asked to be given his inheritance from his father (v. 12) and then went off into the world and wasted all of it (v. 13). Then he realizes that he has nothing and returns to his father in humility and his father welcomes him back into the family with open arms (v.14-24). Everyone is happy for the return of the son except for the other son...for good reason I think. Then the father explain in v. 31 "thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine". Thats the verse that I always get stuck on. It should work that way I think, the people who have always been more or less on the Lord's side ought to have all that He has. In the story the prodigal son doesn't get back the inheritance that he wasted away. He gets welcomed back, but can't ever gain everything that his father has again. Thats where I feel I am. I know its possible to repent and be forgiven and thats wonderful and amazing, but people keep saying that its possible to still obtain all that the Father has.......this story doesn't really support that theory and it confuses me. I feel like my progress is limited and I'm ok with that because its a very justified limitation like this story illustrates, but it throws me off when people explain differently....both can't really be true, so do you know which is?

The first problem, is never measure our failures or success with others. Each of us will receive our inheritance based on mortal journey and not because of others.

Though, dependent on each other, as we are dependent on our elder brother, the Savior, our reward is met out on our repentant and obedience to the end before our GOD. Our faith exercise in the Gospel of Christ, our service to others, which our own shoes at the end of our mortal probation should be worn out with deep gratitude, even when we fail, we get up and keep striving to the do the right.

The atonement can not be easily understood by simply reading it, or rehearsing it by memory, this is an act that must be felt to know the surety of the depth and its eternal meaning. I stood in many counseling session thinking I knew every aspect of the Savior’s atonement, only to realize I really didn’t know. My own personal revelation came about on a day when I counseled a young man who sought forgiveness, felt the Spirit overwhelming, which many tears were shed, I did feel the presence of forgiveness by the Spirit and made it known to not only me, but to the one who received it. A Bishop can release the burden but not the sin, only a handful of servants of the FATHER, who hold HIS honor, can actually release the sin through the atonement of the Master.

The by-product of sincere repentance of past sins, ingratitude, or what other one can label past events, is the ‘eternal eraser effect.’ There is no remembrance of past sins before the Master, now, or in the eternities. As if, there was no sin ever committed and everything is restored to their natural course.

Now, what was lost as inheritance in the past is replaced again with the son who returned.

The problem with the other son who remains faithful, he shall receive his reward based on his mortal journey but needs to learn genuine love for others who sought repentance before the Master; what troubles me more than the son who threw away his inheritance. All the years be faithful, he failed this one strong point of being like his father – genuine love for all his children.

Our own FATHER, who knows before the end, less than a 1-percent [my own observation here] will be lost for ever – meaning, not standing with HIM into the externalities as a family at the highest order of the Celestial Kingdom. Yet, HE continuously demonstrates HIS love for HIS children to the bitter end. Even those, who were called in the grand counsel in being HIS chosen ones, some of which, sinned and threw away their inheritance in this mortal probation openly, only later to return in asking for a morsel of crumbs, which fallen from the feast table, pleading for forgiveness. Do you not think, GOD will not honor those who ask in sincerity? Do not think HE would not open HIS house unto them who sought refuge from the gathering storm, which is nigh? Do you not think, GOD will erase the son’s past in order to bring the son to HIS level once more, knowing HE had learned a valuable lesson and will only serve HIS household forever? I would think so…

Edited September 29, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Maxel]

One thing that Hemidakota pointed out- and that I want to emphasize because it was my thought as well- that the father's words to the faithful son was a lesson to him (the son).

The faithful son was complaining about the party his father threw for the wayward son, saying that his father had never thrown HIM such a party despite his life of service. His father replies that all he (the father) has is his son's- to receive such a display of love and appreciation, all that is needed is the asking for it.

[martybess]

This is a bit off the subject but not really. I was talking to a guy last night at a wedding and he brought the prodigal son up. He said it's the prodigal son who makes it. He is the one who actually finds the Father. Then he said something like (and I couldn't get into it to find out what he meant) but he said the older brother couldn't find Christ he didn't know him. He was kind of jumping around though and mentioned something about the 3 wise men too.

Does anyone know what parable he was referring too? Was there a son in some parable that couldn't find the savior? He said few really understand the parable of the prodigal son and was talking about all the hypocrisy in the church and it's only those who get pasts this, past living the letter of the law, the law of mosses who truly find Christ. He kept talking about the hypocrisy in the church. He's in good standing as far as I know and is a lawyer for the church and works in the church office building so he has to have a recommend. So I'm thinking he's not what I call a left winger. One who on the edge of apostasy but he might be someone who has some insight.

[Vort]

The whole story of the prodigal son is a great one, but there is a verse there at the end that always throws me off and kinda casts a shadow over the sweet message of forgiveness for me. Basically what I understand of the story is that the prodigal son asked to be given his inheritance from his father (v. 12) and then went off into the world and wasted all of it (v. 13). Then he realizes that he has nothing and returns to his father in humility and his father welcomes him back into the family with open arms (v.14-24). Everyone is happy for the return of the son except for the other son...for good reason I think. Then the father explain in v. 31 "thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine". Thats the verse that I always get stuck on. It should work that way I think, the people who have always been more or less on the Lord's side ought to have all that He has. In the story the prodigal son doesn't get back the inheritance that he wasted away. He gets welcomed back, but can't ever gain everything that his father has again. Thats where I feel I am. I know its possible to repent and be forgiven and thats wonderful and amazing, but people keep saying that its possible to still obtain all that the Father has.......this story doesn't really support that theory and it confuses me. I feel like my progress is limited and I'm ok with that because its a very justified limitation like this story illustrates, but it throws me off when people explain differently....both can't really be true, so do you know which is?

The following is not LDS doctrine, merely my interpretation of LDS doctrine. That said...

The so-called "Parable of the prodigal son" is not primarily about the wandering prodigal; it is clearly about the "faithful" elder son. It is the third of three parables talking about the rejoicing of those who find that which was lost. Remember, the pretext to these parables was the Lord being criticized for dining with sinners. In response, the Lord told these three parables. The first was about a lost sheep, and how the good shepherd leaves the ninety and nine in the wilderness to go after it. The second was about a piece of gold lost by a woman, who then sweeps her house diligently until she finds it, then rejoices with her friends in finding the thing of value.

In both cases, the focus is on the finding of the lost thing of value.

Then, to bring this point home to his listeners (who doubtless comprised more than just the "Pharisees and scribes" mentioned), he told the parable of the wandering son and the faithful son. The point of this parable was not to pass judgment on the wandering son; his foolishness was apparent to all who heard. Rather, the focus was on the reaction of the elder son, who, rather than rejoicing in the return of "thy brother" (as his father put it), instead burned with resentment at the treatment of "this thy son" (as he castigated his father).

Remember, in the verse immediately preceding the beginning of this parable, the Lord teaches that "there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." Clearly, the elder son was not [yet] numbered among "the angels of God". He needed to learn the lesson of rejoicing in the repentant sinner rather than complaining that all his faithfulness was "vain" (cf. Malachi 3:14 "Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of hosts?")

I don't believe this parable says anything about the reward of the faithful versus that of the repentant sinner. If it does, then it is certainly to our condemnation, because we all surely fall into the category of the prodigal rather than the "faithful" son.

[Danite]

To me this story has meant different things to me at different times of my life. The Prodigal Son wasted his inheritance and most folks say how foolish he is for his partying life style and the the father welcomed him back with open arms, but there's another son here that needs to be repent and be forgiven to. The son that stayed home with his father needs to repent for his hard and unforgiving heart which will cost him if doesn't repent. The sins that we think are small and tend to over look will be the ones that will keep us from obtaining the celestial kingdom. Sins against love are probably worst to a god who is love the sins of the flesh.

[Dove]

The whole story of the prodigal son is a great one, but there is a verse there at the end that always throws me off and kinda casts a shadow over the sweet message of forgiveness for me. Basically what I understand of the story is that the prodigal son asked to be given his inheritance from his father (v. 12) and then went off into the world and wasted all of it (v. 13). Then he realizes that he has nothing and returns to his father in humility and his father welcomes him back into the family with open arms (v.14-24). Everyone is happy for the return of the son except for the other son...for good reason I think. Then the father explain in v. 31 "thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine". Thats the verse that I always get stuck on. It should work that way I think, the people who have always been more or less on the Lord's side ought to have all that He has. In the story the prodigal son doesn't get back the inheritance that he wasted away. He gets welcomed back, but can't ever gain everything that his father has again. Thats where I feel I am. I know its possible to repent and be forgiven and thats wonderful and amazing, but people keep saying that its possible to still obtain all that the Father has.......this story doesn't really support that theory and it confuses me. I feel like my progress is limited and I'm ok with that because its a very justified limitation like this story illustrates, but it throws me off when people explain differently....both can't really be true, so do you know which is?

Some ideas came to my mind as I was reading your opening OP....

One thought that came to mind was, aren't all of us like the prodigal son in that all of us sin and fall short of the glory of God? There's a verse in Isaiah that says, " All we, like sheep, have turned astray; we have turned everyone, to his own way, and the Lord hath laid on Him (Christ) the iniquities of us all."

All of us sin and fall short, hence the need for the atonement.......

I don't agree that the scriptures in this story state thats the prodigal son can never again obtain all that his Father has. To me, this negates the power of the atonement for the truly penitant person. Again, all of us sin and, in order to return home to the Father, must go through the process of "repentance." In the LDS Bible dictionary, it is explained that the greek version of repentance "denotes a change of mind, i.e. a fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world." To me, true repentance includes a change of heart. All of us, everyone, must go through this change of heart and sanctification process (which I feel is done through the Holy Spirit) in order to be worthy of the presence of the Father....

Another thought that came to mind is the parable of the servants who worked for the master of the vineyard at varying times throughout the day....They were all paid the same amount, no matter what time of the day they started. The first servants who worked at the beginning of the day were upset that they were not paid more than the last servants who worked the last few hours of the day......If I recall correctly, basically what the master said is for them to be happy because they received what they had agreed to be paid in the first place, and to mind their own business concerning what he had agreed to pay the last....

What this says to me is to have trust in the Lord, that all of us will be judged justly/mercifully/fairly at the last day. Basically, for me, to not worry about/judge God on how He will deal with my fellow man, only to worry about how He will deal with me......kind of the same ideas a to the prodigal son....

I really believe that God will give each of us our due, whatever that may be. I'm so grateful for the atonement of Christ, for through this, instead of being condemned to eternal destruction, I am allowed to be alloted my "just deserts" with a given kingdom of glory; at least, if I don't become a "son/daughter of perdition".....

[Hemidakota]

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd weigh in with my own thoughts based upon another parable: The parable of the worker in the vineyard, which is Matthew 20:1-16

That parable has a deeper meaning then what is given. Notable is the hour and number usage.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

There are similarities between both the parable of the laborers in the vineyard and the parable of the prodigal son. Both cases, a master shows astonishing generosity to those who don't deserve it—and those who do feel they deserve it are offended because of envy and pride. They feel that the Master is being unjust to those who have worked long and hard because He is being so generous to those who have given less.

Notable for us Saints, it is common to feel that we earn our place in GOD's Kingdom. It is a principle that we must work diligently to build the kingdom, to bless others, and to be obedient. If we fail to work, we will lose our reward is always stated.

It is also not true that our own obedience and service qualify us for our place in the kingdom. In a strict sense, we are exalted not because of our own righteousness, but because of the righteousness of our beloved Savior (Read 2 Nephi 2:3). The Saints must rely on His grace, His merits, and His mercy, or we will be lost to a lesser kingdom (Read 2 Nephi 2:8; 2 Nephi 31:19; and Moroni 6:4).

As members of the church, we will arrive at those gates to each glory assigned and receive gifts through our beloved Savior. Paul told Philippians, "My God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus," (Read Philippians 4:19). Are not all His servants, and He is the Master, and He will give to each of us abundantly? I would think so and concur with Paul statement.

I have served with another person in a presidency where I felt much animosity from a former Stake President. What I felt, was also felt by others close to me and made the same exact statement. When we serve together, our service should be an offering of service to God not because we expect reward for ourselves, or building the kingdom to receive worldly praises, but our cause is to build it for our GOD and our Christ. Our service is to glorify the Savior that He may glorify the FATHER. It is also literally true that we could labor all our days for God and his kingdom and still be in his debt still.

Now to end this, our reward in GOD’s Kingdom does not come because we have started first in GOD’s creation and seeking to be first among its membership. Nor what is stated by Joseph Smith changes made in Mark chapter 10, "made ourselves first" (paraphrase verse 31).

Let me state Farrar wonderful thought on this subject of the parable of the workers in the vineyard –

“It does not come through bargaining or some kind of equivalency between works done and pay given. "To impress upon [the apostles] still more fully and deeply that the kingdom of heaven is not a matter of mercenary calculation or exact equivalent—that there could be no bargaining with the Heavenly Householder—that before the eye of God's clearer and more penetrating judgment Gentiles might be admitted before Jews, and Publicans before Pharisees, and young converts before aged [members]—He told them the memorable Parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard. That parable, amid its other lessons, involved the truth that, while all who serve God should not be defrauded of their just and full and rich reward, there could be in heaven no murmuring, no envyings, no jealous comparison of respective merits, no base strugglings for precedency, no miserable disputings as to who had performed the maximum of service, or who had received the minimum of grace." [Farrar, The Life of Christ, 504]

[Dove]

You know, it's this kind of "competition" in the gospel, and in christianity generally, that leaves me so turned off....

I really like the budhist concepts of being at one with each other and the universe, of living in harmony and helping each other.

So often in this western civilization it is so much about competition....who's doing better than who, and therefore, who has the right to "lord" his/her works and judge others for not doing what he/she thinks they should.

In many ways, the gospel is more about a broken heart and a contrite spirit......the state/frame of our hearts as we set about serving our God......I remember the great commandment to "love thy neighbour as thyself." There's a reason this is the greatest commandment!

I think the christian world/lds world in general falls far short of the mark in having a "pure heart." We miss the intrinsic/inner workings for doing these "works." We make the commandments a check list on our high road to heaven. So disgusting, as I've felt so often judged by good "christian" folk for not living their standards. It hurts, and leaves me wanting to turn away from "christianity" altogether....

[Maxel]

This is a bit off the subject but not really. I was talking to a guy last night at a wedding and he brought the prodigal son up. He said it's the prodigal son who makes it. He is the one who actually finds the Father. Then he said something like (and I couldn't get into it to find out what he meant) but he said the older brother couldn't find Christ he didn't know him. He was kind of jumping around though and mentioned something about the 3 wise men too.

Does anyone know what parable he was referring too? Was there a son in some parable that couldn't find the savior? He said few really understand the parable of the prodigal son and was talking about all the hypocrisy in the church and it's only those who get pasts this, past living the letter of the law, the law of mosses who truly find Christ. He kept talking about the hypocrisy in the church. He's in good standing as far as I know and is a lawyer for the church and works in the church office building so he has to have a recommend. So I'm thinking he's not what I call a left winger. One who on the edge of apostasy but he might be someone who has some insight.

The beauty of Christ's parables is that there are many meanings to them- they just have to be understood properly. Yes, the parable of the prodigal son can be viewed (rightfully so, I think) as a condemnation of hypocrisy among those who call themselves Christ's anointed ones- however, it's not the "real" meaning of the parable, as the story encompasses too much to have hypocrisy's ugliness as its root meaning.

His remarks remind me of Talmage's in Jesus the Christ, where he says that the faithful son's reaction shouldn't lead one to construe that sinning and then repenting is preferable to not sinning and, therefore, not needing to repent. The faithful son sinned in his actions, yes- but he can also repent. The faithful son's life will be much easier because of his actions, and he'll have less to repent and make restitution for.

[Maxel]

Our own FATHER, who knows before the end, less than a 1-percent [my own observation here] will be lost for ever – meaning, not standing with HIM into the externalities as a family at the highest order of the Celestial Kingdom.

Do you mean that less than 1% will inherit anything less than the third degree of the Celestial Kingdom (meaning over 99% of God's children will inherit full celestial glory)? Or did I read that wrong?

[pam]

Yet I learned while growing up that 2/3 of the people will reach the celestial kingdom. I don't have a source for that as it was just taught to me in a Sunday School class when I was a teenager.