Does G-d worship?

[Traveler]

This introduces a lot of questions. For example do G-d ask us to do something he would not? If G-d does not worship how can we be condemned if we don't? If G-d does worship - should we not worship what he does? If we are truly one with G-d - should we not worship what he does? If we are one with G-d, we ought to know what G-d worships.

Thoughts???

The Traveler

[Dr T]

I see that as blasphemous. I'd say NO God does not worship. I will say Jesus worshiped the Father as an example but no, God does not worship anything else because there is nothing greater to worship.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Dr T
typo of "o" instead of "p"

[Jamie123]

Ummmm...isn't one of the main tenets of Mormonism that God was once a man on a different planet, and that He achieved godhood by honouring the covenants made with the god of his own world? If this is true, isn't it fair to assume that He continues to worship His God?

[hordak]

Ummmm...isn't one of the main tenets of Mormonism that God was once a man on a different planet, and that He achieved godhood by honouring the covenants made with the god of his own world? If this is true, isn't it fair to assume that He continues to worship His God?

Yes God was once a man in LDS theology. I don't think Dr T is lds though.

[Hemidakota]

This introduces a lot of questions. For example do G-d ask us to do something he would not? If G-d does not worship how can we be condemned if we don't? If G-d does worship - should we not worship what he does? If we are truly one with G-d - should we not worship what he does? If we are one with G-d, we ought to know what G-d worships.

Thoughts???

The Traveler

Would you worship your FATHER? Does the Savior worship the FATHER even in a glorfied state? Then it goes to reasoning, even the FATHER worships HIS FATHER...

[LDSpunkrocker]

This introduces a lot of questions. For example do G-d ask us to do something he would not? If G-d does not worship how can we be condemned if we don't? If G-d does worship - should we not worship what he does? If we are truly one with G-d - should we not worship what he does? If we are one with G-d, we ought to know what G-d worships.

Thoughts???

The Traveler

I think he worships but we only worship him. who knows what things will be like after the millennium though.

[Vanhin]

I'm in the camp of those who do not subscribe to the infinite regress of gods. I think God the Father is the Most High God, and that "God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits." (History of the Church, 6:310–12; capitalization modernized; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on Apr. 7, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois; reported by Wilford Woodruff, Willard Richards, Thomas Bullock, and William Clayton; see also appendix, page 562, item 3.)

I think our orthodox doctrine, as found in the scriptures, supports this point of view. There is no indication in any of the scriptures that anyone or anything but God and the Lamb is to be worshiped. However, I will admit, that we do not know everything, and until God gives us more light an knowledge about the topic, your guess is as good as mine. :)

For more on the topic, see Nature of God/Infinite regress of Gods - FAIRMormon.

Regards,

Vanhin

[prisonchaplain]

Would you worship your FATHER? Does the Savior worship the FATHER even in a glorfied state? Then it goes to reasoning, even the FATHER worships HIS FATHER...

My thought would be no, Jesus does not worship his Father, in his glorified state. During his earthly time he willingly humbled himself, becoming a little lower than the angels. Thus, as one who was fully human, it was appropriate to worship his Father. Additionally, Jesus came as the Father's emmissary, so he would want to lead them in proper worship of the Father.

This is one of those areas that Protestants and Catholics find very difficult in LDS theology...that God progressed to his state, and is not eternally ominipotent, omniscience, nor omnipresent.

[Traveler]

Very interesting results: Perhaps I should have asked this question is a different way but I am interested is what people think is worship and why they think G-d wants us to worship.

May I ask for a list of perhaps 10 things you do that is worship and then lets examine what you then think:

1. When you are one with G-d - do you think you do these things together - and will you (according to your understanding) always do such things in "unity" or oneness? or that once you are really one they do not really matter to you or G-d?

2. Do you think G-d does or does not do the things on your list?

3. Is there any purpose (benefit to you) for doing these things - and do you think G-d would not be also involved just because there is no benefit for him? Or is it possible that he could also benefit in doing the things you do of benefit?

The Traveler

[thekabalist]

Hi Traveler,

Couldn't help noticing you write "G-d". Are you Jewish as well? :)

[pam]

He is LDS..but if I remember correctly he does take that from the Jewish tradition as a way to honor God. If my memory serves me correctly.

[Vort]

The New Testament makes it perfectly clear that Christ (God) worships the Father. Thus, God does indeed worship.

To extend this idea to the Father and draw conclusions based on that extension is completely unwarranted. At that point, it's pure space doctrine. Better to leave such fringe ideas strictly alone and stick with the important revealed truths.

[Vort]

Ummmm...isn't one of the main tenets of Mormonism that God was once a man on a different planet, and that He achieved godhood by honouring the covenants made with the god of his own world?

No. There is no such tenet.

If this is true, isn't it fair to assume that He continues to worship His God?

Lots of things that sound reasonable are not "fair to assume". This is one of them.

[Just_A_Guy]

It seems to me that when we get right down to it, the definition of "worship" is pretty slippery. How can we say God does (or doesn't) do something that we can't even define?

[lattelady]

I don't believe that God worships. There is no higher authority or power than God, so what would He worship? He doesn't worship us, or any other part of His creation--the creation worships the Creator.

Romans 11:36 says, "For of Him, and through Him, and to him are all things: to whom be glory forever, amen." He is the One deserving of glory. Would He ask us to do something that He Himself would not do? Yes, I believe He would and can and does. He desires for us to accept His gift of salvation, offered to all because of His death on the Cross. He Himself has no need of salvation, but He offers it to us. So, yes, He does ask things of us that He doesn't need to do. He asks us to worship Him, and Jesus incarnate showed us by example. But He doesn't need to lead out in that. He is the recipient of that. I believe He created us for His own pleasure. What an awesome thought that He takes pleasure in us!

Revelation 4:11 says, "Thou art worthy , O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

Psalm 149:4 "For the Lord taketh pleasure in His people: He will beautify the meek with salvation."

We talked about worship briefly in another thread, and someone asked what is worship and how do we worship, specifically. I finally found a good way to explain what I mean: I bring pleasure to God, how ever I choose to do that, (as long as it is something that would honor Him), and that IS worship. Anything I purpose to do to bring Him pleasure is worship.

10 things I might do to worship: 1)sing songs to Him that tell Him how AMAZING He is to me 2)teach my kids about God's character 3)listen to a sermon about Him and really HEAR IT and APPLY it 4)give food and clothing to the less fortunate 5)write a song from my heart straight to God 6)pray and tell God the things I'm thankful for this week 7)submit to my husband's leading in some area of our marriage 8)visit my sick friend and share some encouragement with her from God's Word 9)tithe on Sunday and thank God for His faithful provision 10) Bless the food that we're about to eat for dinner as a family, and thank God that we always have what we need.

My point in all that is that worship shouldn't be just a PART of our lives--something we do on Sunday, or just one day a week--but it should BE our life. Like King David said, "I will bless the Lord at all times.

His praise shall continually be in my mouth." Psalm 34:1

Edited November 17, 2009 by lattelady

[Traveler]

Hi Traveler,

Couldn't help noticing you write "G-d". Are you Jewish as well? :)

No - I am LDS but in my travels I have encountered this notion plus in all my studies I have not found an exception in ancient scripture to such modification as a means of reverence. I use this method on the internet to remind me that sacred things should be treated with great care.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

I don't believe that God worships. There is no higher authority or power than God, so what would He worship? He doesn't worship us, or any other part of His creation--the creation worships the Creator.

Romans 11:36 says, "For of Him, and through Him, and to him are all things: to whom be glory forever, amen." He is the One deserving of glory. Would He ask us to do something that He Himself would not do? Yes, I believe He would and can and does. He desires for us to accept His gift of salvation, offered to all because of His death on the Cross. He Himself has no need of salvation, but He offers it to us. So, yes, He does ask things of us that He doesn't need to do. He asks us to worship Him, and Jesus incarnate showed us by example. But He doesn't need to lead out in that. He is the recipient of that. I believe He created us for His own pleasure. What an awesome thought that He takes pleasure in us!

Revelation 4:11 says, "Thou art worthy , O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

Psalm 149:4 "For the Lord taketh pleasure in His people: He will beautify the meek with salvation."

We talked about worship briefly in another thread, and someone asked what is worship and how do we worship, specifically. I finally found a good way to explain what I mean: I bring pleasure to God, how ever I choose to do that, and that IS worship. Anything I purpose to do to bring Him pleasure is worship.

10 things I might do to worship: 1)sing songs to Him that tell Him how AMAZING He is to me 2)teach my kids about God's character 3)listen to a sermon about Him and really HEAR IT and APPLY it 4)give food and clothing to the less fortunate 5)write a song from my heart straight to God 6)pray and tell God the things I'm thankful for this week 7)submit to my husband's leading in some area of our marriage 8)visit my sick friend and share some encouragement with her from God's Word 9)tithe on Sunday and thank God for His faithful provision 10) Bless the food that we're about to eat for dinner as a family, and thank God that we always have what we need.

My point in all that is that worship shouldn't be just a PART of our lives--something we do on Sunday, or just one day a week--but it should BE our life. Like King David said, "I will bless the Lord at all times.

His praise shall continually be in my mouth." Psalm 34:1

It is not possible that G-d worships his laws, his covenants, his commandments and his cause?

My other question is how can someone truely be "one" with G-d and be involved in something G-d would not?

BTW I am somewhat disapointed that you do not consider keeping the commandments as worship.

The Traveler

[Vort]

No - I am LDS but in my travels I have encountered this notion plus in all my studies I have not found an exception in ancient scripture to such modification as a means of reverence.

Joseph Smith translated an ancient record into modern English. He didn't use "G-d", "L-rd", or any other such term. He used "God", "Lord", "Jesus", "Savior", "Jehovah", and so forth.

I, for one, seek to emulate the example of the Prophet of our dispensation, as well as those who have followed. To my knowledge, not a single one of them has followed this "delete-the-vowel" system.

[Vort]

I don't believe that God worships. There is no higher authority or power than God, so what would He worship?

Is prayer a form or worship, or is it not?

Is Jesus God, or is he not?

Did Jesus pray to the Father, or did he not?

Given the obvious answers to the above questions (assuming you believe the Bible), how can you argue that God does not worship?

[Traveler]

I want to personally thank Lattelady for offering a list of things she does as worship.

Often we think of someone that likes sports or money a lot that they worship such things. So I am wondering what constitutes worship? Is love an act of worship?

The Traveler

[lattelady]

Vort,

Yes, prayer is a form of worship. Yes, Jesus is God. Yes, Jesus (when He walked this earth) prayed to God the Father. He was, as prisonchaplin mentioned earlier, humbling Himself and showing us the example to follow. As a man He led by example, including praying to His Father, being baptized, submitting His will to the Father, etc. during His earthly mission. He honored His Father in EVERYTHING and brought Him glory and showed us the way.

I thought Traveler was asking generally if God worships--again my answer would be the same. HE is to be worshipped, not be the worshipper.

[Vort]

Vort,

Yes, prayer is a form of worship. Yes, Jesus is God. Yes, Jesus (when He walked this earth) prayed to God the Father. He was, as prisonchaplin mentioned earlier, humbling Himself and showing us the example to follow. As a man He led by example, including praying to His Father, being baptized, submitting His will to the Father, etc. during His earthly mission. He honored His Father in EVERYTHING and brought Him glory and showed us the way.

I thought Traveler was asking generally if God worships--again my answer would be the same. HE is to be worshipped, not be the worshipper.

Maybe I was being too picky. In fact, I agree with your last sentence.

[prisonchaplain]

Whether or not Jesus worshiped the Father, apart from his incarnation, is open to speculation. However, what is clear is that Heavenly Father commanded his angels to worship Jesus. Additionally, John's revelation has repeated references to angelic worship of Jesus, and of commands for worship and adoration of the Lamb.

Edited November 18, 2009 by prisonchaplain

[Traveler]

This is turning out much more different and difficult than I thought??? Is the reason we worship G-d only because he is G-d?

I would submit that G-d gains nothing by our worship of him - any goodness that comes from our worship is what we gain - not G-d. There is no benefit that G-d gains. The only possible gain or merit is ours and those around us.

Here is another thought - Is "service" a form of worship? Do we not worship who we serve? If we serve Satan we worship Satan in our service.

Jesus said that the greatest in the Kingdom of G-d is the servant or the one that provides the greatest service. Not the mighty and all powerful that make everyone bow down but the humble servant that lifts and glorifies others.

And what about glorifying someone – is that not a form of worship. When we glorify and exalt G-d is that not worshiping?

I submit that serving is worshiping and glorifying others is also worship and no being in the universe serves others and glorifies others more than G-d.

The Traveler

[Moksha]

I see that as blasphemous. I'd say NO God does not worship. I will say Jesus worshiped the Father as an example but no, God does not worship anything else because there is nothing greater to worship.

However, since every part and tag of creation stems from Him, can we not imagine that He celebrates this creation as a manifestation of divine purpose.