Got fired for doing the right thing

[Wingnut]

Actually - they can. Illinois is an at-will state and both the employee and the employer can terminate the employment at any time, for any reason (within bounds of what is legal), at least in theory - thank goodness for that, it's a good law

However, an employer may NOT terminate an employee for refusing refusing to break the law and that may be the case here/

I don't know if what the OP was requested to do was against the law, so he may not have been refusing to break the law, but is firing an employee for refusing to spy on the boss's wife (or facilitate said spying) "within bounds of what is legal"? Isn't that the question the OP should be asking?

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I could really use your prayers right now. This morning I was let go from my job as an IT administrator. Apparently my boss wants to "spy" on his wife (I don't know if he suspects infidelity or not but he was pretty closed lipped about it) and asked me to install a keystroke logger on her laptop that he brought with him to work today. I wasn't comfortable doing so and felt it was dishonest and when I refused he threatened to fire me. I objected but about an hour later I was trying to figure out what to do (I was thinking of talking with another manager about it) and my boss walks in a fires me. He had two security guards with him and they escorted me out after I gathered my stuff. Very humiliating!

I keep playing the situation over and over in my head and I still think I did the right thing but maybe I could have been more tactful about it. I don't know. My wife is going to kill me when she gets home. I hate Mondays....

Contact a Laywer, contact his supervisor and explain the circumstances.

This is illegal. If it was due to you not performing the functions of a job, or a violation of a company policy, I can understand.

The other thing, if you are in an At Will State - which means an employer can fire you for anything and not have a reason why, this will be difficult.

But I would definitely go down and talk with your human resource manager, contact an attorney to see what your rights are, etc.

[Snow]

I don't know if what the OP was requested to do was against the law, so he may not have been refusing to break the law, but is firing an employee for refusing to spy on the boss's wife (or facilitate said spying) "within bounds of what is legal"? Isn't that the question the OP should be asking?

Like I said, in an at-will state, both the employer and employee can terminate employment at will. The reason can be that the employee drinks pomegranate juice or there can be no reason at all. You don't need a reason to fire someone.

Exceptions are based on legal requirements - you cannot fire some based on some characteristic in a protected class - it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race, sex, religion, etc, and it is illegal to fire because of a refusal to break the law. I don't know but it seems to me that spying or bugging is likely illegal in Illinois.

Despite laws regarding at-will employment, various courts often make employee friendly decisions in wrongful termination case thus rendering the at-will regulations much less helpful to the employer.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Depending on your state law for Unemployment benefits, when you file for unemployment benefits you have to give a reason as to why you lost your job.

In Washington State, if you were fired from your position, you have to give a reason for this, if there was no reason given, you can place unknown. Most employers will let you know as to why you are being let go. Company Policy Violation, Ethical issues, downsizing, company take over, or such.

What then happens is that a person submits their paperwork. The State then sends paper work to the employer to find out the reason why the person was discharged from their employment.

So, if you put down Fired due to refusal of unethical business practices, your employer will see this. Most likely, the Human resource department and not the supervisor.

When you get the letter back, it will show, or the unemployment office will ask for more information because your employer will report back that it was due to insubordination, or refusal to do work or something.

If UI denies you, you have the right to appeal the decision and overturn the denial. This does take time, however, the plus side (as for Washington state) once you collect unemployment insurance and file your weekly claim every week, you will get your unemployment benefits for all the weeks that you filed. This will be in a one lump sum of money, and then paid weekly.

Check with your State unemployment. Go in and discuss with an Employment Specialist with the state. There also should be some free legal aid offered that may be available to you.

[FairChild]

You did the right thing. I pray that everything gets resolved quickly for you and that you will be alright. Perhaps this could be an opprotunity for an even better job with an even better boss.

Poor wife has no clue what her hubby is up to. That just sucks.

[deseretgov]

Be sure to tell your boss' wife about what he wanted you to do.

[Churchmouse]

I have a friend that lives in Montana. She was working when a man pulled a gun on her and robbed them. She was under a doctor's care for several days. They fired her for not coming back to work right away.

She sued them. Her lawyer accused them of discriminating against a person with an emotional disability. The doctor testified she was emotionally unable to come back to work that week. She won.

Something like this effects people different ways. I've been the victim of an armed robbery, but never had any emotional problems. However, I can see were it could cause some people real problems.

[Melissa569]

Oh that's terrible, you poor thing! Once at my job, a woman fell off her scooter (she had no legs). Me and a co-worker rushed to help her. She fell REALLY hard, and I saw her hit her head. Later, as she was on her way out, I genuinely said, "Get yoruself checked out, make sure you're ok..." I was just doing what I would do for any human being I was concerned about.

My boss yelled at me later, telling me, "When you run to help someone like that, they can sue you for making their injury worse. And NEVER encourage someone to see the doctor. That could lead to a lawsuit!"

Although I could see her point, I thought... Well, excuse me for being a decent human being, lol.

[pam]

Hmm would they rather have a lawsuit for something that happened due to her falling at work and not recommending she seek medical advice? Every job I've ever had, if someone got hurt at work, we filled out accident reports etc.

[nbblood]

My boss yelled at me later, telling me, "When you run to help someone like that, they can sue you for making their injury worse. And NEVER encourage someone to see the doctor. That could lead to a lawsuit!"

It's really pretty sad that our society has got us to this point. Every day I see/hear of law firms advertising if you've ever taken this, done that, whatever it may be to call them and they'll get you money. It's those kind of lawyers and their pursuit of the almighty dollar, devoid of reasonable ethics, that get us to the point where we're to scared of a lawsuit to help anybody. How do those people sleep at night?

[Churchmouse]

Oh that's terrible, you poor thing! Once at my job, a woman fell off her scooter (she had no legs). Me and a co-worker rushed to help her. She fell REALLY hard, and I saw her hit her head. Later, as she was on her way out, I genuinely said, "Get yoruself checked out, make sure you're ok..." I was just doing what I would do for any human being I was concerned about.

My boss yelled at me later, telling me, "When you run to help someone like that, they can sue you for making their injury worse. And NEVER encourage someone to see the doctor. That could lead to a lawsuit!"

Although I could see her point, I thought... Well, excuse me for being a decent human being, lol.

Many states have "Good Samaritan" laws. If you are trying to help someone you can't be sues if you make the injury worse (Within reason, of course).

As for your boss. The world is full of jerks

[Churchmouse]

It's really pretty sad that our society has got us to this point. Every day I see/hear of law firms advertising if you've ever taken this, done that, whatever it may be to call them and they'll get you money. It's those kind of lawyers and their pursuit of the almighty dollar, devoid of reasonable ethics, that get us to the point where we're to scared of a lawsuit to help anybody. How do those people sleep at night?

I say a good one today. Their PHONE number is 1-800-BAD DRUG

[Kaelee]

If you are a decent person and it seems like you are, please let the wife know what happened.

I would send her a letter and cc the boss, his boss, everyone up the chain and an attorney, with facts only.

[Jamie123]

Refusing to help a superior to spy on his family members is certainly not grounds for dismissal, so I'm guessing your boss must have used some bogus pretext for firing you. If so, then he has abused his position and deserves to be dismissed himself. He'll probably do the same thing to others if he's allowed to get away with it this time.

This is not just about you, but about the integrity of the organisation and the welfare of everyone else employed there. You'd be doing no one any favours by letting this bully win. You have a duty to fight him tooth and nail (*).

Are you a member of a trades union? If so, take this to your union rep. If not, you may still be eligible to join one and get help. However you choose to fight it, good luck to you!

(*) Of course, I don't mean that literally!

Edited January 8, 2010 by Jamie123
LOL - I'm not advocating violence here!

[mnn727]

SteveMcluuf -- how about an update?

Have you taken any of our suggestons?

How did your wife take it?

How are you doing?

inquiring minds want to know

[Just_A_Guy]

I would be interested in JAG's opinion.

I'm 100% with Snow on this one.

Having been (ostensibly) fired for cause (as opposed to being let go without specific cause) may also have implications on any attempt to receive state unemployment bennies, as well as your eligibility for severance or COBRA from your previous employer--even in an at-will state. Talk to a lawyer.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[SteveMcluuf]

Thanks for all the responses and prayers. Sorry for not responding sooner but things have been crazy with me scrambling to find a job and some other craziness in my personal life (more details in a new post coming soon).

I've decided to turn the other cheek and not take action against my past employer. Fortunately, for the time being I have found work at a local Blockbuster and while it isn't 100% what I'd like to be doing, at least I have a salary and health insurance. Plus I'm glad to be rid of my old boss. Once when I didn't respond to a message on the Blackberry within 10 minutes, he got all upset even thought it was like 10:00 at night. I think he has had it out for me for a while. At least I get free movie rentals now :)

[CTRMann]

This might seem a bit TOO vindictive, but it might be worth a shot. I might consider tracking down your boss' wife and tell her what he wanted you to do. Or you could write your old boss and tell him that you might just "think" about letting his wife know what he asked you to do. Be funny how fast you are asked to come back.

Edited January 12, 2010 by CTRMann

[Prodigal_Son]

Okay, I didn't read all the posts (so maybe someone else already mentioned this)... but some of y'all suggested he talk to the boss's boss.

Okay... I guess... but I was more thinking along the lines of talking to the boss's wife.

[Wingnut]

Thanks for all the responses and prayers. Sorry for not responding sooner but things have been crazy with me scrambling to find a job and some other craziness in my personal life (more details in a new post coming soon).

I've decided to turn the other cheek and not take action against my past employer. Fortunately, for the time being I have found work at a local Blockbuster and while it isn't 100% what I'd like to be doing, at least I have a salary and health insurance. Plus I'm glad to be rid of my old boss. Once when I didn't respond to a message on the Blackberry within 10 minutes, he got all upset even thought it was like 10:00 at night. I think he has had it out for me for a while. At least I get free movie rentals now :)

Wow -- I'm glad you found work right away! That's impressive!

Even if you don't want to try to get your old job back, or take any legal action against your former employer, I still think you should alert HR to the circumstances, so that if it happens again, they can be aware of a pattern. They should also be made aware of his attempted use of company property (or time/resources) for his own personal use. Yes, many people check personal email or Facebook, etc. while at work, but this goes beyond that.

[bladerunner]

you did the right thing. You didn't sacrifice your principles for your job. That takes courage, especially in todays' depressed economy. I'm sure your wife will agree after you explain to her the situation. I'll pray for you.

[Blackmarch]

I could really use your prayers right now. This morning I was let go from my job as an IT administrator. Apparently my boss wants to "spy" on his wife (I don't know if he suspects infidelity or not but he was pretty closed lipped about it) and asked me to install a keystroke logger on her laptop that he brought with him to work today. I wasn't comfortable doing so and felt it was dishonest and when I refused he threatened to fire me. I objected but about an hour later I was trying to figure out what to do (I was thinking of talking with another manager about it) and my boss walks in a fires me. He had two security guards with him and they escorted me out after I gathered my stuff. Very humiliating!

I keep playing the situation over and over in my head and I still think I did the right thing but maybe I could have been more tactful about it. I don't know. My wife is going to kill me when she gets home. I hate Mondays....

Do what is right, and let the consequence, whatever it be follow.

I'm very srry to hear that.

In regards to your wife, just tell her the whole thing.

I also suggest letting someone higher up in the management know about what your boss is doing....

If you want to stay where you worked then definitely do so, you may have to prepare for some legalwork, because something like this usually ends up in court. You may have to go to the law on this (don't know tho), if you want to keep your job... but definitley let upper management know about this incident- and if you are willing to go to the law about this, also let the upper management know that as well.

If you have any records of any transactions that cover or are related to this event, get copies of them.

Edit: nevermind on the last half.

As with wingnut I'd definitely notify someone above your boss about his activities, possibly even the police- more out of regards for the boss's wife than anything else. Stalker behaviour always raises red flags for me.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Blackmarch

[Wisc]

I would look under "stored information" laws. Keystroke loggers are not illegal but some of the things done with them are- such as accessing stored data or violation of privacy in certain situations.... And it was a personal computer that he was having a company asset (You) take company time to do a personal favor. You might even be able to argue fraternization on his part due to the inappropriate conduct he was impressing on you by having you in his little secret circle of spying on his wife. Thats not against a law but I bet its one heck of a company code of conduct violation.

Be the squeaky wheel my friend! At the very least you should be able to get him fired and your old job back.

If all else fails say you're gay and he found out about it and made advances upon you.

[Blackmarch]

...

If all else fails say you're gay and he found out about it and made advances upon you.

lol that's just low.

[john doe]

lol that's just low.

And dishonest.