Help with oldest child


ZappBrannigan
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So my oldest son (stepson technically) is almost 17, and he is not a member. He told me that he doesn't want to get baptized because he wants to "Live Life" in college. I pressed him and he told me he wants to be able to expirence drinking and partying in college, so he can find out for himself if it is really that bad or not.

My son attends church every week, he attends early morning seminary for his 3rd year now, goes to activities regularly and has even spoken in sacrament meeting. Yet he thinks that if he doesn't make the commitment to live the WOW, then he will be okay in procrastinating the day of his repentance so to speak.

I am not looking for people to tell me things like "tell him to pray" or "explain that you get blessings once you are baptized". I have already tried all of these things. I am looking for someone who has "Lived Life" and has had to make those changes, so that I can get a better appreciation for what he is saying.

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So, how's your relationship with your stepson? Is it close and loving, or a bit more difficult? You can use whatever influence you have to get him to seriously consider what God wants of him, but you can't make him do anything.

Basically - you don't get to convert anyone. Individuals choose to become converted. There's no magic formula of words you can say that will get him to do anything. You might be able to apply enough pressure on him so he gets baptized just to shut you up. But that's a pretty horrible solution if you ask me.

If he's intent on living life, there are about two real things you can do. First, you can make all the info available to him about how babies come from, birth control, STDs, consequences, etc. The other is let him put this plan of his into action - on his own dime. You weren't going to pay for him to go be a party animal, were you?

LM

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We teach our children, our loved ones the best we can, then we need to let them go free, they need to learn to choose for themselves. Unfortunaly most people learn from the mistakes they make. Like Lm said teach him the consequence of drinking, drugs, and sex. Dont give up on him,or them...keep communication open so they want to talk with you about anything, and just be there for them in good and bad times. Always keep them in your prayers. Thats my advice.

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I told him that if he wants me to pay for anything, he will need to live by the rules I set. I am a rather strict parent, and my kids like to complain about my expectations, but I suspect that my oldest realizes that the reason i hold him to such a level is because I care.

It seems like most of his nonmember friends (he regularly hangs out with 3 members) all tell him that their lives are better than his because they have parents who not only let them do whatever they feel like, but who also give them money, buy them cars and other financial incentives, while not requiring anything in return, like good grades or help around the house.

I try to explain to him that those parents are busy trying to be friends with their kids, instead of being parents. I try and point out how his being required to do chores has helped him develop a work ethic. And I think sometines he sees it. Other times it seems like all he can focus on is the "fun" he is missing.

I was thinking about making him volunteer at a alcohol treatment center, as alcoholism runs in his family. I think maybe seeing how devastating alcohol can be firsthand might do some good.

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I told him that if he wants me to pay for anything, he will need to live by the rules I set. I am a rather strict parent, and my kids like to complain about my expectations, but I suspect that my oldest realizes that the reason i hold him to such a level is because I care.

It seems like most of his nonmember friends (he regularly hangs out with 3 members) all tell him that their lives are better than his because they have parents who not only let them do whatever they feel like, but who also give them money, buy them cars and other financial incentives, while not requiring anything in return, like good grades or help around the house.

I try to explain to him that those parents are busy trying to be friends with their kids, instead of being parents. I try and point out how his being required to do chores has helped him develop a work ethic. And I think sometines he sees it. Other times it seems like all he can focus on is the "fun" he is missing.

I was thinking about making him volunteer at a alcohol treatment center, as alcoholism runs in his family. I think maybe seeing how devastating alcohol can be firsthand might do some good.

I think you're nuts. I can understand paying his tuition so long as he maintains good grades. But with holding tuition because he chose to drink at a college party and still maintained good grades...well, you can set that rule if you like, but what will happen is he won't tell you much of what he does in his free time and he'll do what he wants anyway.

The last thing you want to do when a kid takes this path is do things that will make him feel like he can't talk to you about anything. It's imperative you keep the lines of communication open.

If he wants to drink and have sex...fine. But he'll have to get a job to earn money to buy his own liquor and condoms. But it sounds like you're trying to exert control over his moral behaviors through financial manipulation. This is really dangerous and probably will neither produce the results you want, nor lead to a better relationship with him.

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So it would be better for me to support him financially in a lifestyle that I don't agree with? Makes sense. I guess the next time I see that homeless guy holding up a sign that says "Who am I kidding, I need a drink" I will stop and give him money for beer. Or maybe the next time I see a crackhead, I will offer to buy their next rock for them.

I think a key point I may not have gotten across is that the kid says he does believe the church to be true, he believes in the book of mormon, he just wants to experience crazy college life before he joins.

He told me that he has a long time to work on his salvation, and he doesn't want to make the commitment to the church and then knowingly break it.

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The problem with kids that age, they think they are immortal. That nothing bad will happen to them. I remember feeling that way myself when I was that age.

The sad thing is, things do happen to kids that age.

About all you can do is let him know of your expectations. Give him the whole lecture about a good education..etc etc etc.

It will then be up to him. Sometimes you just have to learn things the hard way as hard as that is for us as parents to accept.

You never know. One drunk binge. One morning waking up laying in vomit just might cure him and he'll be over it. Sorry to be graphic but sometimes....

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Or it might destroy him. Alcoholism runs in his family. It killed his grandmother at age 50, his uncle was drunk and did something really dumb that ended up in his death at 24. So it's not like my son hasn't seen what alcohol can do.

I think it is some non member kids he is hanging out with at school. I remember when he used to get mad at his mom (my wife) when she would drink. And now he wants to drink so badly, he is willing to put off following what he knows to be true.

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So it would be better for me to support him financially in a lifestyle that I don't agree with? Makes sense. I guess the next time I see that homeless guy holding up a sign that says "Who am I kidding, I need a drink" I will stop and give him money for beer. Or maybe the next time I see a crackhead, I will offer to buy their next rock for them.

I don't think that's quite what MOE's saying. With regard to room, board, spending money, vehicle . . . I agree with you (and MOE) that your son can earn it himself if he's going to blow it on riotous living.

But when you get into tuition money: a college education--provided your stepson takes the opportunity to obtain a good one--will be nothing but an asset, whether he remains faithful to your ideas or not. To yank that just because he isn't living the way you think he should be living (assuming he's still keeping his grades up), arguably crosses the line from "protecting him from himself" into a naked power play.

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So it would be better for me to support him financially in a lifestyle that I don't agree with? Makes sense. I guess the next time I see that homeless guy holding up a sign that says "Who am I kidding, I need a drink" I will stop and give him money for beer. Or maybe the next time I see a crackhead, I will offer to buy their next rock for them.

I'm not sure paying for tuition (which is what MoE is talking about) is quite analogous. It is your money and you are free to set what ever conditions you want (you aren't even required to help him financially in school period), but MoE is not talking about giving him beer money. A better analogy might be buying a bum a room at a motel for the night so he has a warm bed even if you know he's going to watch pornography on the TV while he's there.

If you are inclined to help him in college still help him is my advice. Though it does seem perfectly reasonable to ensure the funds go for what you approve of by paying tuition directly instead of just handing him cash that he may use in ways you don't approve of. And that applies to an X-Box 360 just as much as a bottle of Jack Daniels.

Edited by Dravin
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OK here's an opinion from someone that has been there and done that. The more you force someone, the further away you push that person from you. Having said that, I have a different standpoint in regards to financing his education. If he is not abiding by your rules, you shouldn't have to fit the bill from your wallet. Plain and simple. Receiving tuition from your parents is a privilege. Not everyone gets that privilege and for various reasons. Yet, for those that don't have mummy or daddy shelling out the bucks, there are still ways one can pay for schooling. So if education truly is a priority, he will find a way to get it, with or without you.

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Zapp,

I am sorry to hear about the difficulties you are having with your stepson. In your OP you asked to hear from someone who has been there, done that, and made it back alive. I've been to all the parties, done all the drugs, drank all the booze, and made lots of ill gotten money. :mad:

Here are some things that brought me back:

1. Unconditional Love: This is the single most important thing you could possibly give your son. If your son understands that you do and will continue to love him, regardless of his choices, regardless of how bad he has messed up... he will not fall for all the fake love that is offered by the drug community... and even if he does, he will eventually figure out the difference.

2. Unconditional Acceptance: This is the only way you can hope to have an honest relationship with your child through all this. I am not talking about becoming an enabler here... I am talking about accepting your child even though he has fallen and looking at him through the eyes of love, not the eyes of judgment or fear. If he knows he can always tell mom anything then he will be less likely to fall into deception, hiding, lying, etc. If he can really be honest with you, even when it makes you sad, then he will eventually come to you for help.

3. Accurate Information: If he is about to experiment with life gonzo style then it would help if he got some unbiased information. Understanding the reality of STDs, learning how to use contraceptives, getting some of the new vaccinations that can prevent some serious illnesses such as hepatitis and cervical cancer (OK... that last one is for his future partners) can help reduce the damage he will inflict on himself and others.

Same with learning about the various substances he is likely to try. In my time it was alcohol, weed, MDMA, Adderall, and Xanax that made the top 5 abused substances.... at least around the people I knew (Oxycotten and Meth were up there too). All of these are bad, but no two carry the same risk/reward. Weed is illegal and there is a risk of jail time but there is not a risk of fatal overdose (assuming it has not been spiked). Alcohol is legal but it is addictive (especially if alcoholism runs in his family) and dangerous. MDMA and Meth are serious drugs even when you get them in their pure and correctly made form... the problem is that many times these are manufactured in suboptimal ways and that can have serious additional consequences added on to the risks that "should" be associated with use. Adderall, Xanax and Oxycotten will at least be manufactured correctly and might even be legal if he does a little doctor shopping but that still does not make them safe. All of them are addictive, potentially fatal, and the withdraw is miserable and dangerous.

4. Forgiveness: This is extremely important since it is what we all hope for ourselves and those we care about. The repentance process is hard enough... there is no need to make it even harder. You cannot push a sinner into repenting but you can welcome him home will the open loving arms of a mother who really forgives and faith in a Savior who really forgives.

That's about all I got for now... but it is a good start.

Best wishes for you and your family,

Liz

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Honestly? I would ask him- "Do you have a testimony of the gospel?"

If his answer is no, then I'd say he shouldn't be baptised. He has to gain a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel before committing to baptism.

If his answer is yes, then I'd say you should have a little scriptural talk with him about "Living Life". What do the scriptures say about this? What will you get out of it? If he still wants to avoid baptism and "live life" after having this discussion (and actually, asking him to study it personally and keep a "scripture journal" will probably work better than a discussion), then tell him- "You know what the Lord says will result from such actions. If you want to test Him, that is your decision. There is nothing I can do to stop you. I just wanted you to be fully informed of the consequences that will follow before you acted on your desires."

I "lived life" (to an extent) in college. I didn't drink, didn't do drugs, and I didn't have a lot of sex, but I did plenty of things I knew I shouldn't have. It was an empty experience. I had fun. I enjoyed my freedom. But it brought me more harm than good. The fun was short lived. The freedome was short lived. It wasn't long before I'd dug myself a horrible pit. Once I experienced for myself the fruits of the "world", I had a greater appreciation for the gospel. My testimony grew immensely, and I am a stronger person for it. Plenty of people have learned the same way, but plenty of people have also been broken by the attempt. While personal experience brings better understanding, it is better to learn from the experiences of others and trust in the Lord's counsel so as not to risk being broken.

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Looks like I was a little late in posting here...

My son came home from mutual last night about 1030 with one of his member friends. At first I was upset that he was out so late and I didn't get a call (I was expecting him home @ 9).

Turns out he had a good reason to be out so late...

He is getting baptized on OCT 30th, and wanted to call our Bishop to set it up. From the conversation we had with him and his friend (which lasted until nearly midnight) he said he had known he wanted to get baptized since Sunday, but didn't tell anyone besdies his friend.

I don't know why he kept telling me he wouldn't get baptized until he "lived life", but I would like to think that all of the prayers from all of the people in our ward helped get him there. We have fasted for him, we have prayed for him. I don't think there is a person in our ward that hasn't talked to him about how ready he is to be baptized.

Thank you for your comments, if I am able to, I will get back with why he seemingly changed his mind so radically (although I suspect that part of why he voiced his want for rebellion was so that he could proceed at his own pace, in his own way).

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Looks like I was a little late in posting here...

My son came home from mutual last night about 1030 with one of his member friends. At first I was upset that he was out so late and I didn't get a call (I was expecting him home @ 9).

Turns out he had a good reason to be out so late...

He is getting baptized on OCT 30th, and wanted to call our Bishop to set it up. From the conversation we had with him and his friend (which lasted until nearly midnight) he said he had known he wanted to get baptized since Sunday, but didn't tell anyone besdies his friend.

I don't know why he kept telling me he wouldn't get baptized until he "lived life", but I would like to think that all of the prayers from all of the people in our ward helped get him there. We have fasted for him, we have prayed for him. I don't think there is a person in our ward that hasn't talked to him about how ready he is to be baptized.

Congrats, being that I'll be turning Seventeen in less than year as well, I was quite surprised with the statement, 3 years of seminary and has not yet been baptized. It didn't really make much sense until this latest post of yours.

Just a warning though, I know a few members my age who still do not heed to the WOW, or other standards like using appropiate language, so don't be hoping for a quick conversion. Still, it's great to hear that he's getting baptized. He's got a lot of great memories of the church ahead of him, espicially if you have him attend EFY.

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Sorry about this coming late but I wanted to sleep on it to collect my thoughts. There are a couple statements here that I feel the need to address.

If he wants to drink and have sex...fine. But he'll have to get a job to earn money to buy his own liquor and condoms. But it sounds like you're trying to exert control over his moral behaviors through financial manipulation. This is really dangerous and probably will neither produce the results you want, nor lead to a better relationship with him.

MOE: I agree with the vast majority of what you are saying here and definitely agree with the general point that you seem to be trying to get across. There is one part where I strongly disagree and would like to know about the church's position on this is. Giving out condoms is a great thing (at least from a secular pragmatic view). My personal advice would be to buy one large package of each brand and type and wrap each package in shiny paper with a great big bow and a "from mom with love" sticker. While were at it I would also suggest a note encouraging him to pass them out to all his friends who are sexually active. I think that religious people are a little hesitant to do this because of the fear of condoning or encouraging promiscuous behavior. I do not believe this to be the case. A whole fishbowl full of condoms (especially ones from mommy) would not be the thing that encourages sex... hormones do a great job of that on their own.

I am extremely vocal about this issue because the cost benefit analysis is just so +EV that I want to scream. Kids will be kids and people of all ages do dumb stuff they need to repent of once they realize they were wrong. We cannot change the actions of others but we can do a little damage control.

Condoms reduce the chance that an unwanted pregnancy and a potential abortion decision will occur. I really wish that more pro-life people realized this.... making birth control hard to get is encouraging abortion and therefore morally questionable at best. Encouraging compassionate birth control (both for married couples and for people living sinful lifestyles) is a large part of protecting children and maintaining family values.

Condoms also reduce the chance of contracting the many terrible diseases out there. Educating people about safe sex is just as important as educating them about washing their hands after using the restroom and covering their mouth when coughing. We need to get over the awkwardness and stigmas and start talking openly about disease prevention.

So it would be better for me to support him financially in a lifestyle that I don't agree with? Makes sense. I guess the next time I see that homeless guy holding up a sign that says "Who am I kidding, I need a drink" I will stop and give him money for beer. Or maybe the next time I see a crackhead, I will offer to buy their next rock for them.

Zapp: It is your money so spend it however you wish. I do want to say that I personally find this statement to be a little offensive though and would like to explain why.

Full blown alcoholics do not drink to have a good time, relax, or get high. The bum on the street who is desperate enough to ask you for a dollar to buy a beer is doing so because the beer will stop the shaking, hallucinations, and diarrhea. Alcohol detox is not just painful and sad... its a serious medical problem that needs proper supervision from a doctor because it is potentially fatal.

You also mentioned "crack heads" and feel the need to address this issue as everything I said about alcoholics and more. I will not try to guess how many people you know who are addicted to crack but I will say that the people I have known who got into that stuff suffered terribly. This particular drug not only robs users of their health, wealth, and dignity... it takes away the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong. Furthermore even one single use can be enough to cause full blown chemical addiction and the withdraw from that is hideous to watch.

I want to be extra clear that I am not suggesting that anybody enable or financially support addiction. What I am advocating is compassion for those who are suffering, avoiding self righteous "I'm better than you" thinking, and supporting rehab and detox programs that are accessible to the poor.

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I just had a dear friend get a call from her college son who was sobbing. He went out on a Sat night, made some poor choices and got turned in. He tested positive for drugs. Now he's on probation and might get kicked out of school. He's only two months into his freshman year. Does your son really need to shoot himself in the foot to learn how stupid drugs and alcohol are? Is it really worth it to him to risk everything that way?

Here is part of the email this heartbroken mom sent to her son. (By the way this is a "Christian" school somewhere in FL so the rules are probably stricter than a public college.) I couldn't help but wonder if this boy had had the blessing and protection of the gospel and the word of wisdom in his life, he wouldn't be in the pickle he's in now.

" First of all, I just want to remind you that we love you – I love you. - I am disappointed, angry, but hopeful – hopeful that this is what you need to slap you into honestly looking at your life and making some better decisions.

There’s nothing to say other than you screwed up.

I am hopeful that now you will stop and really decide what you want to become. If you decide that once and for all, this is not the life you want – that acting that way put everything that you now want in jeapardy – you need to look for some help. I am hopeful that you will find that God is the one who can give you the strength and wisdom to make good decisions. I am hopeful that you will recognize that the little voice in your head that keeps saying – oh, come on, its just a little, its fun, its cool, everyone else is – is Satan tempting you thru your sin nature. We all sin – we all have different temptations – Satan is “wiley and cunnning” and knows how to most easily trip us up. Do you hear that attitude creeping in? That voice that says “that’s stupid” “it wasn’t a big deal” “why is everyone on my case?” - THAT is Satan’s voice playing on your weakness.

I am hopeful that they will give you another chance. I am hopeful that you will take it. I am hopeful that you will see Satan for the deceiver that he is. I am hopeful that if they do give you another chance that you will take it with grace. Understand that it would come with both punishment and correction I am hopeful that you will pick up each punishment and correction – really look at each as an opportunity to grow and learn, pack them carefully in a bag and put it on your back to carry. I hope you understand that they were not given to you in anger, but with the desire to teach and guide you. Then head down the correct path.

The way is not wide and easy, but steep, windy and narrow. Satan will be by your side whispering to you : that’s stupid, no one will know – just drop that one bag. But we have a greater assurance – Christ is mightier than Satan – He has defeated him. Call on Him and He will help you. Your load will become lighter and lighter as you walk with Him.

I am hopeful that your distress over this isn’t short lived – I hope you remember just how it felt when you had to call each of us to tell us what was going on – I hope this is the stumble you needed to wake you up and cause you to really choose what you want for your life. You are at the very beginning of adulthood – the decisions you make now will determine which way your life will go. I am hopeful that you choose correctly. "

I hope and pray your son can avoid the pain and suffering so many kids go through in sowing their wild oats. But if he just can't restrain himself from the partying and alcohol, I hope he survives long enough to come back to his senses. That doesn't always happen. Some kids are scarred for life by their dumb choices as young adults.

Best of luck!!

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Zapp: It is your money so spend it however you wish. I do want to say that I personally find this statement to be a little offensive though and would like to explain why.

Full blown alcoholics do not drink to have a good time, relax, or get high. The bum on the street who is desperate enough to ask you for a dollar to buy a beer is doing so because the beer will stop the shaking, hallucinations, and diarrhea. Alcohol detox is not just painful and sad... its a serious medical problem that needs proper supervision from a doctor because it is potentially fatal.

You also mentioned "crack heads" and feel the need to address this issue as everything I said about alcoholics and more. I will not try to guess how many people you know who are addicted to crack but I will say that the people I have known who got into that stuff suffered terribly. This particular drug not only robs users of their health, wealth, and dignity... it takes away the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong. Furthermore even one single use can be enough to cause full blown chemical addiction and the withdraw from that is hideous to watch.

I want to be extra clear that I am not suggesting that anybody enable or financially support addiction. What I am advocating is compassion for those who are suffering, avoiding self righteous "I'm better than you" thinking, and supporting rehab and detox programs that are accessible to the poor.

So let me get this straight, alcohol detox is a serrious medical problem that requires monitoring by a doctor, or a new beer? Maybe I should go a little into my professional history here, I spent 7 years working night shifts in an inner city ER. I have dealt with more alcoholics, meth addicts, "crackheads", drug seekers and other people with "serrious medical problems". But thank you for the brief description of "painful and sad". Why do you think I want my son to stay away from these substances so badly? While it was painful to watch my mother in law die from liver failure, I hope it helped convince my son that alcohol is best avoided.

If I sound harsh when I say alcoholics or crackheads, well that comes from my natural sunny disposition, mixed with years of dealing with these people during their worst times. While I recognize that they are still children of our Heavenly Father and I must treat them as such, I do not have to be accepting or kind when I discuss their decisions.

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I think you're nuts. I can understand paying his tuition so long as he maintains good grades. But with holding tuition because he chose to drink at a college party and still maintained good grades...well, you can set that rule if you like, but what will happen is he won't tell you much of what he does in his free time and he'll do what he wants anyway.

The last thing you want to do when a kid takes this path is do things that will make him feel like he can't talk to you about anything. It's imperative you keep the lines of communication open.

If he wants to drink and have sex...fine. But he'll have to get a job to earn money to buy his own liquor and condoms. But it sounds like you're trying to exert control over his moral behaviors through financial manipulation. This is really dangerous and probably will neither produce the results you want, nor lead to a better relationship with him.

Couldn't disagree more MoE. When a person is 18 he's an adult. And should begin to be self supporting. OP does not owe him anything, and in fact would be doing a disservice to him by giving him anything. I realize we're an "entitlement" society, and that this person's "friends" can get what they want, but it doesn't make it right.

The person in question has not yet received a testimony, and is probably onbly going through the motions of activity to keep peace in the family.

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So let me get this straight, alcohol detox is a serrious medical problem that requires monitoring by a doctor, or a new beer? Maybe I should go a little into my professional history here, I spent 7 years working night shifts in an inner city ER. I have dealt with more alcoholics, meth addicts, "crackheads", drug seekers and other people with "serrious medical problems". But thank you for the brief description of "painful and sad". Why do you think I want my son to stay away from these substances so badly? While it was painful to watch my mother in law die from liver failure, I hope it helped convince my son that alcohol is best avoided.

If I sound harsh when I say alcoholics or crackheads, well that comes from my natural sunny disposition, mixed with years of dealing with these people during their worst times. While I recognize that they are still children of our Heavenly Father and I must treat them as such, I do not have to be accepting or kind when I discuss their decisions.

I am very sorry for the loss of your mother in law. Both of us have lost people we cared very deeply about as a result of alcohol and drug abuse. I do not believe that sharing "war stories" about the things we each have seen is the most productive use of our time but I do believe that we have more in common than I initially realized.

I understand that working nights in an inner city ER must have left you a little battle scarred. We both know exactly how painful and sad addiction and withdraw can be. It's not easy to watch anybody collapse on a table and start shaking and bleeding and foaming at the mouth. It's terrifying when you see someone talking to people who are not there while they have no control over their bodily functions knowing that person could die and/or harm others in the process.

Since you have extensive experience with people who are detoxing, I would love to hear your opinion on the merits of the taper off method as opposed to switching to a similar but less addictive drug like Valium or Methadone. Unfortunately some people still do not have the luxury of a choice when it comes to making this decision, but it would be nice to hear about the comparative efficacy of the two treatment options.

I realize that I have absolutely no right to judge you or anybody else for the coping mechanisms developed under significant stress. You have very good reasons for wanting to protect your step son from the horrors that usually come with drug use.

I believe in the power of the scriptures and I think it is good to meditate on the words of Christ. Matthew 25:31-41 is an excellent passage for those who work in difficult fields such as medicine and law enforcement.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come , ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred , and ye gave me meat : I was thirsty , and ye gave me drink : I was a stranger, and ye took me in : 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick , and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying , Lord, when saw we thee an hungred , and fed thee? or thirsty , and gave thee drink ? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in ? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed , into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

I wish you and your family the best,

Liz C.

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