I am a big fat stupid gambler!

[FunkyTown]

Actually, I'm not. I had something happen today which sparked me thinking.

I was at the convenience store picking up something to drink at work when the guy behind the counter, who had a thick accent, asked me a question. Rather than admit that I didn't understand his question, I gamely said yes and paid my bill. As it turns out, I bought a lottery ticket.

I assume this was just money thrown down the toilet, but if I won the £160 million that the ticket purports to be worth, what happens in terms of the church? Obviously, you can't pay tithing on gambling winnings. Would you confess to the bishop? Would you pay tithing upon the interest you gained from the investments you made with the money, or would it all be considered gambling funds and something you don't tithe on?

Edited July 6, 2011 by FunkyTown

[pam]

As with anything else...I would never tell someone NOT to talk to their Bishop if it is of some concern to them.

But if you win FT..would you share with me? I mean..aren't we REALLY good friends? haha

[FunkyTown]

As with anything else...I would never tell someone NOT to talk to their Bishop if it is of some concern to them.

But if you win FT..would you share with me? I mean..aren't we REALLY good friends? haha

Haha. Well, since it wasn't intentional, I'm fairly confident it's not confession worthy. If I won, on the other hand, I think you're right as I WOULD go collect on the ticket and that is intentional. Not a sin, I'm fairly certain, but confusing enough that I'd get clarification.

And if I win, one of my homes would be in Utah.

[MarginOfError]

The only real objection to gambling winnings that I can see is that the winnings violate the principle of work that the Church encourages. If it were me, I'd take the money and donate it to a charity that would put the money to work.

Well, I'm not really that selfless. I'd pay off the taxes, invest some in my kids' college funds, but I might take a bunch of it and start up an endowment to help inner-city kids get involved in boy scouts or something of that nature.

[pam]

Haha. Well, since it wasn't intentional, I'm fairly confident it's not confession worthy. If I won, on the other hand, I think you're right as I WOULD go collect on the ticket and that is intentional. Not a sin, I'm fairly certain, but confusing enough that I'd get clarification.

And if I win, one of my homes would be in Utah.

I would like to come visit your home in England.

[PrinceofLight2000]

If you win, donate it.

[NeuroTypical]

Oh, this one is easy. You simply become an example to show everyone in Gospel Principles class when they do the lesson on gambling/work/recreation I've taught this lesson many times:

I went to a gas station that gave me a lottery ticket with my tank of gas - it was a promotion of some kind. I scratched off the thingies, and won $1. The lady immediately asked me if I wanted to get another ticket for my dollar - and I admit being tempted.

But instead, I use that dollar as a bookmark in my Gospel Principles book. The lesson talks about 'filthy lucre' and 'ill-gotten gains' - I read that part, then tell my story and pass around the dollar as an example of what 'filthy lucre' looks like. I'm guaranteed to get it back - folks act like it's radioactive or something. Some people don't even want to touch it.

That's one perfectly good consequense of sin - you get to be an example for other people to not follow.

LM

(Of course, you have to actually win something in order to use your gains as an object lesson at church. No, I won't be wishing you good luck. :))

[applepansy]

:DGive it to me. I'll pay tithing on it.

[FunkyTown]

Oh, this one is easy. You simply become an example to show everyone in Gospel Principles class when they do the lesson on gambling/work/recreation I've taught this lesson many times:

I went to a gas station that gave me a lottery ticket with my tank of gas - it was a promotion of some kind. I scratched off the thingies, and won $1. The lady immediately asked me if I wanted to get another ticket for my dollar - and I admit being tempted.

But instead, I use that dollar as a bookmark in my Gospel Principles book. The lesson talks about 'filthy lucre' and 'ill-gotten gains' - I read that part, then tell my story and pass around the dollar as an example of what 'filthy lucre' looks like. I'm guaranteed to get it back - folks act like it's radioactive or something. Some people don't even want to touch it.

That's one perfectly good consequense of sin - you get to be an example for other people to not follow.

LM

(Of course, you have to actually win something in order to use your gains as an object lesson at church. No, I won't be wishing you good luck. :))

"If you want to know what filthy luchre is, kids, look at this gold rolex. I cashed in a lottery ticket. It also bought my Bugatti outside, my bespoke suit, my homes in London, Provo and St. Lucia. Now I'm living on the quarter of a billion dollars the ticket was worth. Beware! These consequences could befall you if you lose hold of the iron rod!"

I feel that would get me quite rightly excommunicated. I'm kidding, because I honestly didn't intend to purchase the ticket, but giving a quarter of a billion dollars to charity and going back to work the next day? It would take a better man than me.

[Dravin]

"

I feel that would get me quite rightly excommunicated. I'm kidding, because I honestly didn't intend to purchase the ticket, but giving a quarter of a billion dollars to charity and going back to work the next day? It would take a better man than me.

If nothing else I'd pay off my parents and family's debts before donating the rest to charity, and I'd be sore tempted to, at a minimum, pay of my own debts.

[Echo2002]

Is it an actual sin to buy a lottery ticket? I always thought the reason we shouldn't gamble is because 1) You will most likely have better use for that $1 than buying a piece of paper, and 2) Some people become addicted and dig themselves into a hole that they can't get out of.

I don't think what happened to you is something you have to go to the Bishop about. If you win something you might have to explain how that happened, haha.

[FunkyTown]

Is it an actual sin to buy a lottery ticket? I always thought the reason we shouldn't gamble is because 1) You will most likely have better use for that $1 than buying a piece of paper, and 2) Some people become addicted and dig themselves into a hole that they can't get out of.

I don't think what happened to you is something you have to go to the Bishop about. If you win something you might have to explain how that happened, haha.

Well, we've been counseled not to gamble. And you really shouldn't. I still would find it very difficult to give up a quarter of a billion dollars to charity in the unlikely event that I won.

[maiku]

"If you want to know what filthy luchre is, kids, look at this gold rolex. I cashed in a lottery ticket. It also bought my Bugatti outside, my bespoke suit, my homes in London, Provo and St. Lucia. Now I'm living on the quarter of a billion dollars the ticket was worth. Beware! These consequences could befall you if you lose hold of the iron rod!"

I feel that would get me quite rightly excommunicated. I'm kidding, because I honestly didn't intend to purchase the ticket, but giving a quarter of a billion dollars to charity and going back to work the next day? It would take a better man than me.

totally agree, donating a gazillion dollars (euros, yen, pounds, whatever) is easier said than done. If the purchase was an accident, I don't see the harm in cashing it in. I know this response might draw some controversy but THINK about it;

there are so many GOOD things you could do with the money, pay off debt (student loans!!!), savings for children's education, and yes, charity. I think what you do with the money is more important issue.

One final thought, Adam partaking of the fruit wasn't a sin because he didn't know what he was doing, just like you and the lottery ticket

[MarginOfError]

Is it an actual sin to buy a lottery ticket? I always thought the reason we shouldn't gamble is because 1) You will most likely have better use for that $1 than buying a piece of paper, and 2) Some people become addicted and dig themselves into a hole that they can't get out of.

I don't think what happened to you is something you have to go to the Bishop about. If you win something you might have to explain how that happened, haha.

No, it isn't a sin. It's just discouraged for the reasons you mention, as well as the violation of the principle of working for your upkeep. No one would think any less of Funky if he won the lottery on this ticket.

totally agree, donating a gazillion dollars (euros, yen, pounds, whatever) is easier said than done. If the purchase was an accident, I don't see the harm in cashing it in. I know this response might draw some controversy but THINK about it;

there are so many GOOD things you could do with the money, pay off debt (student loans!!!), savings for children's education, and yes, charity. I think what you do with the money is more important issue.

One final thought, Adam partaking of the fruit wasn't a sin because he didn't know what he was doing, just like you and the lottery ticket

But, you still can't pay tithing on it. That's probably the part that bothers most mormons, is that if they can't pay tithing on it, then can they call themselves a full tithe payer?*

*I'm not implying they can or they can't...just posing the rhetorical question.

[maiku]

good question MarginofError about the tithing, they actually can declare "full paying" status since they can't pay on winnings.

You are right though about that being bothersome, I guess it would bother me too but I just have this philosophy that if I don't take the money and put it to good use it'll go to someone else will get it and do something foolish like buy a gold doggie house for their poodle or something

[LDSJewess]

Well here is my opinion for what it is worth.

I would not consider it gambling because it was not intentional. I consider that a blessing that you received it much like finding a bunch of cash with no hope of finding the original owner. It was something that you gained by accident, and a little luck.

What would I do with a windfall like that? Well honestly, first of all I would tithe the 10 percent, PLUS since I was inactive for almost 10 years before returning to the church (and was not doing a full tithe then), I would pay my tithe retro actively to make up the arrears with interes.

The balance would go to my grand children's education fund, and to set up a special fund to help people who have medical emergency needs. There are a few people in my ward that need surgery and have no insurance that I would love to just lay out the cash and help them out.

Oh and since we enjoy providing dinner for the missionaries, we would feed them REALLY REALLY good.

Oh yes and by the way Funky, I am adopted so perhaps you could be my long lost rich brother????

[mordorbund]

Oh, this one is easy. You simply become an example to show everyone in Gospel Principles class when they do the lesson on gambling/work/recreation I've taught this lesson many times:

I went to a gas station that gave me a lottery ticket with my tank of gas - it was a promotion of some kind. I scratched off the thingies, and won $1. The lady immediately asked me if I wanted to get another ticket for my dollar - and I admit being tempted.

But instead, I use that dollar as a bookmark in my Gospel Principles book. The lesson talks about 'filthy lucre' and 'ill-gotten gains' - I read that part, then tell my story and pass around the dollar as an example of what 'filthy lucre' looks like. I'm guaranteed to get it back - folks act like it's radioactive or something. Some people don't even want to touch it.

That's one perfectly good consequense of sin - you get to be an example for other people to not follow.

LM

(Of course, you have to actually win something in order to use your gains as an object lesson at church. No, I won't be wishing you good luck. :))

I think I saw this in The Friend. It was one of the Matt and Mordorbund comics.

Matt: I will not touch the devil's money!

Mordorubund: [fanning himself with dollar bills] I just robbed his kingdom. The devil should be bankrupt within the month!!

[Blackmarch]

Actually, I'm not. I had something happen today which sparked me thinking.

I was at the convenience store picking up something to drink at work when the guy behind the counter, who had a thick accent, asked me a question. Rather than admit that I didn't understand his question, I gamely said yes and paid my bill. As it turns out, I bought a lottery ticket.

I assume this was just money thrown down the toilet, but if I won the £160 million that the ticket purports to be worth, what happens in terms of the church? Obviously, you can't pay tithing on gambling winnings. Would you confess to the bishop? Would you pay tithing upon the interest you gained from the investments you made with the money, or would it all be considered gambling funds and something you don't tithe on?

I'd tear up the ticket. If no one comes to claim it they'll just do another one.

[skippy740]

I would treat the winnings as if you had won the "Publishers Clearing House" sweepstakes. (Hey, you still have to bet "a stamp" to enter, right?)

It wasn't intentional. No big deal.

But the changes of you winning are about 100x less likely than being struck by lightening.

So, after you are struck by lightening 100x, how do you think you'd feel even if you won?

[FunkyTown]

I would treat the winnings as if you had won the "Publishers Clearing House" sweepstakes. (Hey, you still have to bet "a stamp" to enter, right?)

It wasn't intentional. No big deal.

But the changes of you winning are about 100x less likely than being struck by lightening.

So, after you are struck by lightening 100x, how do you think you'd feel even if you won?

Electrified? EmPOWERed? I would find it Enlightening? I would make a bolt for the head office? I would enter in a storm of activity?

These are golden here, people.

[RescueMom]

I look at lottery tickets as taxes for people who don't want to pay taxes, not so much as a slot machine or blackjack table ;-)

I'd pay tithing on it, pay off debt, give some to charity, invest some and go on living life. I wouldn't feel guilty about it because the money the lottery funding goes to education not to further the casinos. I guess if I don't make it to heaven for accidently buying a lottery ticket, so be it. I guess I don't believe in that vengeful of a God...

[Blocky]

Why is everyone saying they would donate it all?!?! Of course there is a danger in a large amount of money affecting your life negatively, but it could also be a very positive thing. With a large sum of money you can pursue a career that you are absolutely in love with. You can set up college funds for relatives so that they have a better chance of having careers that support themselves and families that they enjoy. It doesn't always take money to get a job you love, but it can help, especially if having your own business is something you'd like. You could set up a fund so that you can spend your retirement years as missionaries. Traveling around the world is not a bad thing, either.

I would worry that if I instantly became a millionaire that my husband would just set up an epic room with about 10 computers and never leave. Since he has me as his lovely wife we don't have to worry too much about that though:D

I just find it interesting that everyone says they would get rid of the money. I know a lot of very rich members who live very comfortable life styles, yet hard work and charity are integral parts of their lives.

[FunkyTown]

I look at lottery tickets as taxes for people who don't want to pay taxes, not so much as a slot machine or blackjack table ;-)

I'd pay tithing on it, pay off debt, give some to charity, invest some and go on living life. I wouldn't feel guilty about it because the money the lottery funding goes to education not to further the casinos. I guess if I don't make it to heaven for accidently buying a lottery ticket, so be it. I guess I don't believe in that vengeful of a God...

I'll be honest: When I started this topic, I was more interested in the nitty gritty side of things. I'm surprised at the number of people suggesting I tear up the ticket/throw it away.

I stated in my original post that I recognized that the proceeds would be gambling and you aren't allowed to pay tithing on it, but I'm wondering more the following(As an intellectual exercise):

1) Are you supposed to pay tithing on the interest you make from investments made using the lotto funds?

2) If you win the lottery, is this a 'Bad Thing' - I recognize none of the temple recommend questions relate to it. But I was wondering if this is something you'd talk to your bishop about.

The first is an exercise wondering, "Hey - This person who won the £163 million/$255 million jackpot - They'd never work again. If they lived just off the interest, they would have literally millions, assuming they invested it all in just Gilts and Bonds - Would they pay tithing on the gilts and bonds they purchased using the winnings? If not, they'd never pay tithing again."

[beefche]

1. I don't know if you are "supposed" to pay on the interest. But, I would probably choose to do so. My thinking is that the lottery money (the lump sum amount) isn't acceptable for tithing (though to be honest, I don't understand why), but that investing money is acceptable. If I were to receive a windfall from a rich cousin, I would pay tithing on the windfall as well as the money I invested. I would like only pay tithing on the investment when I received it, though.

2. I don't know if it is a "bad thing". I don't understand why the church won't accept tithing on it. I accept they don't want it though. I would probably talk to the bishop about it--but that's part of my personality. If I'm unsure, I'd rather err on the side of caution.

[ctr123]

Ok I was all for keeping any winnings from this ticket b/c after all you didn't go gamble you bought it on accident than I found these quotes and I've changed my mind.

President Spencer W. Kimball said: “From the beginning we have been advised against gambling of every sort. The deterioration and damage comes to the person, whether he wins or loses, to get something for nothing, something without effort, something without paying the full price” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1975, 6; or Ensign, May 1975, 6).

—Work. “Work brings happiness, self-esteem and prosperity. It is the means of all accomplishment; it is the opposite of idleness,” according to President Kimball. “We are commanded to work. Attempts to obtain our temporal, social, emotional, or spiritual well-being by means of a dole violate the divine mandate that we should work for what we receive. Work should be the ruling principle in the lives of our Church membership.”

News of the church May 1981.

I believe that we will should appericate more what we work for that what is just given to us when it comes to stuff we have. If we sit around and just live off the interest could be a lack of following the council of our leaders. (boy would it be nice for awhile tho haha). Even just giving our kids a paid education could take away from them. (I not saying that we don't help them get their education thats a whole different topic). I like the story of the person using the dollar as a book mark. It would be hard but I would want to use this ticket as a book mark and never find out if is a winner.

As for paying tithing I get a little confused. I guess if we never play or if we never turn in a ticket that we didn't mean to purchase than it would never be an issue but here are scriputres I found that have interesting use of words.

Deuteronomy 14:22Thou shalt truly atithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

2 Chronicles 31:5¶And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the a tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.

D&C 119The Prophet asked the Lord how much of their property he required for sacred purposes. The answer was this revelation.

1–5, The Saints are to pay their surplus property and then give, as tithing, one-tenth of their interest annually; 6–7, Such a course will sanctify the land of Zion.

1Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their asurplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion,

2For the building of mine ahouse, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.

3And this shall be the beginning of the atithing of my people.

4And after that, those who have thus been atithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

5Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of aZion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.

6And I say unto you, if my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion unto me, that my statutes and my judgments may be kept thereon, that it may be most holy, behold, verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of aZion unto you.

7And this shall be an ensample unto all the astakes of Zion. Even so. Amen.

Wouldn't lottery winnings be an increase or of all things. Also it says one-tenth of all their interest. I'm not very scripture literate so I'm sure I'm getting things off.

One more thought to consider: What if someone gets you a ticket for lets say your birthday. It's a gift than you aren't expected to pay for a gift also has anyone ever paid thithing on a birthday gift. Just a thought!