Johnny Lingo

[beefche]

Sizing up others is not Christlike, in my opinion. Also, I have a hard time relating Johnny Lingo's actions to that of Christ. I believe Christ would have reached Mahana in a more tactful but just as powerful way.

Probably, but I'm not sure the directors meant for Johnny to be the epitome of Christ. He was just a man who was trying to be a good man.

I guess I just don't get why each character has to be an exact replica of what Christ would do.

[Bini]

I guess I just don't get why each character has to be an exact replica of what Christ would do.

They don't. I guess this particular story just rubs me the wrong way, and largely in part because it is so easily interpreted in various ways. I appreciate the stories that have less wriggle room for guessing, and are more direct in their message. That way, it isn't a discussion regarding WHAT the message is but rather whether or not we agree ON the message. Just my own thoughts.

[Vort]

Sizing up others is not Christlike, in my opinion. Also, I have a hard time relating Johnny Lingo's actions to that of Christ. I believe Christ would have reached Mahana in a more tactful but just as powerful way.

Johnny Lingo is a parable and must be viewed through that lens. I doubt there is any actual culture that matches up with the sort of generic "island-y" culture portrayed in Johnny Lingo. It is not meant to be historically accurate or in any way literal. It's more like a fairy tale. More correctly, it's a morality tale.

[RMGuy]

I think too it illustrates why it is important understand the lens through which we as individuals view events:

Allow me to illustrate

Viewed one way, an individual could be someone who stands up for righteousness, who sacrifice, suffer, and endure for that which they know to be true. They will even risk riches, position, wealth, and life for what they know to be right.

The same individual, viewed another way could be an evil, and abominable individual who puts what they want before the needs of others. Someone would would go so far as to commit murder, in order to obtain material possessions.

How can someone be viewed so differently? Well, doesn't it depend upon your point of view as to how you view the story of Nephi and Laban?

Just a thought.

-RM

[Wingnut]

But I only see one cow in your avatar! Doesn't Dravin love you more than that?

Oh my. Well done. LLOL (literally laughing out loud).

[volgadon]

★☆

I do need to watch it again.

Vort made a point that got me thinking. Johnny Lingo used the 8 cows to demonstrate Mahana's worth in a language that the villagers would understand. My question is, and anyone can respond, why was that important? Johnny Lingo could have shown his feelings for Mahana in a less in-your-face way, and Mahana would still know that she is desirable. The feel-good is Johnny Lingo reaching out to Mahana, and Mahana discovering her self-worth. Ultimately, the villagers opinions of Johnny Lingo and Mahana don't matter. So I'm wondering why the exaggeration of 8 cows, as opposed to 3 or 4, which would have been a higher dowry than most.

Would Mohanna have understood it as much in any other way? You have to bear in mind that Western cultural norms feel natural to Westerners. There is a wonderful bit in an old Soviet movie set in Central Asia of the 1920s. A Bolshevik soldier happened to liberate the harem of one of the guerilla chieftains. He immediately sets about reorganising them according to the most progressive standards. After long explanations of how they are free, and aren't his wives, and he hasn't captured them, he appoints the youngest one supervisor over the rest. She runs off to taunt the others by loudly proclaiming, "Our lord and master has made me the favourite wife!"

We relay experiences and events through our cultural lenses.

[Sicily510]

When I watched Johnny Lingo it's deeper than what people just see from actions. Mahana grew up in a home where her father puts her down, the village she was raised puts her down. Johnny Lingo saw pure interest in Mahana not for her looks but for what she did, she was a girl of talents she knew how to cook, prepare a home yet people saw little of value in those type of things. Johnny Lingo sought for Mahana because he knew she would be a suitable wife/mother to raise a family. This is from my own interpretation....

[Sharky]

Were Johnny's methods Christ-like? It's very hard to say as I can't possibly understand the culture of the people & the time that is portrayed in the movie. So I can't judge that or answer that question.

In today's American standards Johnny Lingo is FAR from being "politically correct". I hate that we have all come to expect things to fit our own little versions of what the world should be like.

Much of the Johnny Lingo movie & understanding it comes down to putting it into the context of the time & culture based on when the movie was originally produced - NOT based on today's standards.

Christ-like? Well, maybe if you put it into that context, I don't know. It's hard to say if his actions were Christ-like without understanding the culture that was being portrayed.

The message itself is very much Christ-like even if perhaps the methods weren't.

There are places where women do most every chore & duty of the island so that the man can hunt & work to provide food. There were & still are cultures where wives are "bought" whether it be by the husband or by the fathers when the future husband & wife are still children.

That said, I believe Sicily510 hits the point very closely.

Mahana grew up in a home, a community, were she was given little value. With little value her ability to perform all the aspects of the life expected of her were severly impacted. She had no confiedence in herself or in ability to do what she was expected to do.

As a kid I always thought the Johnny Lingo movie was stupid. We'd laugh & make fun of the movie.

I have since come to understand. It is not intended to imply you must have a man to be feel beautiful. It is not intended to tie your self worth to what someone else thinks of you.

Johnny explains it near the end of the movie.

Johnny paid 8 cows when most everyone, including her father, thought she was worth only 2 or 3 cows.

After being gone from the island for a great amount of time they return. Her father accuses Johnny of ripping him off, 8 cows was too few that she is worth much more then that. It was not just her beuaty but also her confidence & her abilities to do all that a wife was expected to do that gave her a greater value.

The difference?

She had been told her whole life she was ugly, that she was stupid, that she couldn't possibly be a good wife, that she was a 2 cow wife. Johnny paid 8 cows.

The fact that someone believed in her & gave her worth & value gave her confidence.

Then he gave her time away from the island to build that confidence so that her confidence no longer had to come from others but came from within herself.

By doing that, by giving her the cofidence to believe she was worth more, by giving her the chance to build that confidence within herself, she not only became the 8 cow wife he but became a 12+ cow wife.

The opportunity for that change was provided by Johnny & his valuing her so much that he "over paid" for her.

The actual change took place in her & how she came view herself. That change had to start from the outside, from the belief of those around her, but once that belief was strong it was then able to live & thrive within her own self.

[NeuroTypical]

I still think my dark side of the force is more seductive and powerful.

Johnny Lingo is about how to navigate through your mysogynistic culture and end up as king of the mysogynists.

Jaguar infant starvation skyrocketed ever since Dora the Explorer and her evil brother Diego embarked on their misguided efforts to keep the jaguar from it's food supply, just because the prey was 'cute'.

Most teenage slasher flicks out there, are little more than advertisements for responsible concealed-carry.

Trey Parker and Matt Stone couldn't have done a better job on Saturday's Warrior for depicting fringe unsound myth and emotional wishful-thinking as doctrinal truth.

Join us.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Bini]

★☆

I'm understanding. Still not my choice story for promoting self-worth.

[MorningStar]

I remember watching this in Young Women's. We laughed because we couldn't identify with a culture where women could be bought with cows, but we loved the idea of Johnny Lingo considering the "ugliest" woman on the island to be worth so much. Sometimes people live up to the labels they are given. A counselor friend of mine said to treat people as if they have already reached their full potential. I love that.

[Guest]

Girls do the same thing now with their engagement rings. "Mine is half a carat!" "Mine is a full carat!" "Mine is antique platinum!"

[MorningStar]

Girls do the same thing now with their engagement rings. "Mine is half a carat!" "Mine is a full carat!" "Mine is antique platinum!"

Exactly. And a ring started out as a symbol that a woman had been bought and paid for, yet we're happy to carry on that tradition. I'm not much of a jewelry person. I'd rather have the cows.

[skippy740]

And now this thread reminded me of the immortal words of Bart Simpson:

[mrmarklin]

★☆

Anyone remember Johnny Lingo?

Is this an LDS movie? I was thinking about the story (the 8 cow wife) and I'm confused as to what the message is. I haven't watched the movie in many many years, so my memory is a bit foggy but from what I recall, the message doesn't seem very Christlike. Sooo Johnny Lingo finds Mahana beautiful, and everyone else thinks she's ugly - great for him! But I think he could have professed his love in a less in-your-face way. I mean, why parade 8 cows through the village, and rub it into everyone's faces?

The irony was that Mahana was kind of a hottie when we finally got to see her.

Maybe everyone elswe in the village had bad taste, or as in many Polynesian communities, were chubby chasers.

[Bini]

Exactly. And a ring started out as a symbol that a woman had been bought and paid for, yet we're happy to carry on that tradition. I'm not much of a jewelry person. I'd rather have the cows.

★☆

I would rather have jewelry, a lot less maintenance than tending to cows! My uncle is a farmer, and he's always busy with the livestock..

[Bini]

The irony was that Mahana was kind of a hottie when we finally got to see her.

Maybe everyone elswe in the village had bad taste, or as in many Polynesian communities, were chubby chasers.

★☆

I do recall Mahana being a very attractive woman/actress. I guess by Polynesian standards, that may have been ugly because she was slender BUT she also had beautiful facial features (from what I recall). I do think Mahana is appealing to Western standards.

[MorningStar]

★☆

I do recall Mahana being a very attractive woman/actress. I guess by Polynesian standards, that may have been ugly because she was slender BUT she also had beautiful facial features (from what I recall). I do think Mahana is appealing to Western standards.

I love that you're putting stars on every post now.

[Maureen]

...The difference?

She had been told her whole life she was ugly, that she was stupid, that she couldn't possibly be a good wife, that she was a 2 cow wife. Johnny paid 8 cows.

The fact that someone believed in her & gave her worth & value gave her confidence.

Then he gave her time away from the island to build that confidence so that her confidence no longer had to come from others but came from within herself.

By doing that, by giving her the cofidence to believe she was worth more, by giving her the chance to build that confidence within herself, she not only became the 8 cow wife he but became a 12+ cow wife.

The opportunity for that change was provided by Johnny & his valuing her so much that he "over paid" for her.

The actual change took place in her & how she came view herself. That change had to start from the outside, from the belief of those around her, but once that belief was strong it was then able to live & thrive within her own self.

The main problem I have with the Johnny Lingo story is because of this old culture and tradition that women have always been considered either their father's property and then their husband's. I always thought it was strange that my female LDS friends and family members would laugh and try to figure out how many cows they were worth. I found it difficult to see this part of the story as funny or helpful. I get the message, but it doesn't really translate well with western 20th/21st century standards.

M.

[Iggy]

Mahala's mother is dead, so her father has no woman to do for him. Of course he told Mahala she was ugly, if she married then he would have no woman at all to cook, clean, garden, etc.

She believed him and hid her face from everyone with her hair.

Johnny Lingo loved her from the moment he first saw her when they were children. Even if she had been homely, he saw the goodness and beauty of her inner self.

I have known Drop Dead Gorgeous men who are married to homely women. They see the inner beauty. Same for DDG women who marry homely/ugly men.