Are prophets a substitute for a personal relationship with God?

[skippy740]

Received this email today and thought I'd conduct a poll.

One dear sister had come with a member of her stake presidency. As she, he another brother and I stood around talking, answering questions after. She made a statement that I will be using every time I teach on this subject. She said as she was raised in the church and up until a few years ago, she was taught that she only needed the prophet and there was no need to pray to God. If she just followed everything the prophet said then everything would work out the way it was supposed to.

Here is my question and I want you to read it for your own personal opinions... NOT necessarily out of the Sunday School handbooks, etc.

Do you believe that we don't need to pray because we have a prophet on the earth to help lead and guide us?

[Misshalfway]

Do you believe that we don't need to pray because we have a prophet on the earth to help lead and guide us?

Where on earth would someone get the idea that we don't need to pray? A regularly attending member would have to work pretty hard to come away with such a notion.

[annewandering]

The prophet is to lead and guide the church, which is his stewardship. Prayer is to guide us, in our stewardships. The prophets have told us to pray as well. They work together not separately.

[Guest]

I think it's our responsibility to find out for ourselves the truth of any doctrine. It's like when we're children, we lean and rely on what our parents know, but eventually we have to come to a knowledge ourselves. We can't lean just on our leaders.

I just had a thought, too, that it will become important for us to learn to trust what the Prophet says and to have a lot of practice in getting our own testimonies of his leadership. Things are just going to get harder. We're going to be called upon to do more difficult things (supporting Prop 8 in spite of hatred from the world comes to mind). If our personal revelation gears are rusty, and if we haven't worked at having confidence in the Prophet, I imagine it will make it even harder for us to follow God's servants.

[jerome1232]

The prophet keeps telling me to pray everyday, I just end up in a big circle with the logic here.

Okay I'm just really confused about how someone can come to that conclusion.

[Anddenex]

Do you believe that we don't need to pray because we have a prophet on the earth to help lead and guide us?

No.

[slamjet]

So what if I went to God for wisdom, as we are amply invited to do in scriptures and modern day Prophets, and I received personal revelation that the Prophet is really a true Prophet and that I need to follow what he is teaching because he is the mouthpiece for God on earth and I continue to pray for a confirmation of the correctness of his and God's word and a strengthening of my own personal testimony, as the Prophets have invited us to do. Does that mean I pray and I take the words of the Prophet over my own revelation or that my revelations over-rode the words of the Prophet because I sought out and received confirmation of his authority?

Me think that simple questions like this that are so black and white are very difficult to answer. And if one does give a black and white answer, then they run the risk of loosing their way because the questions denote a demarcation point where one suspends the will of the other (God vs the individual) without using both to come to a firm truth.

[applepansy]

I can't choose an option.

Yes I pray. Do I take personal revelation over what the prophet says? No. However, I've never gotten an answer to prayer that conflicted with what the prophet teaches. I know there are blessing for obedience even IF we disagree with what are leaders teach us (especially the Prophet or our Bishop), especially if we think they are wrong and obey anyway.

[Dravin]

What exactly is the question? You're asking if we need to pray even though we have a prophet but two of your poll options seem to be pitting the two sources against each other and asking which we give precedence. If we should be praying or if we don't need to pray because we have a prophet and which source we give precedence are different questions.

[Backroads]

I can't fathom the idea of not praying. Yes, prophets are very helpful, but being able to communicate with God is a very big deal for me. I feel good when I pray (unless I"m in the depths of despair, but even then prayer is still helpful).

In regards to the poll, I do put personal revelation over past prophet statements (I do believe current prophet statements trump pretty much everything) but I do put consideration on past prophet statements and THEN seek personal revelation.

[Backroads]

The prophet is to lead and guide the church, which is his stewardship. Prayer is to guide us, in our stewardships. The prophets have told us to pray as well. They work together not separately.

So what you're saying is that if we are indeed following the prophets we should be... praying?

Indeed, I'm amused at the idea of claiming to follow the prophet's teachings and then seeking as an excuse not to pray.

[john doe]

I find it odd that a lifelong member would make a statement like that. I've never heard anyone state that Prophets supercede the need for prayer. Personal prayer and personal revelation are used to confirm that we are on the right path as we follow the Prophet.

[RipplecutBuddha]

I didn't vote for the poll, as I believe the options were not adequate to the question.

All prophets of God have passed on the message from God of the need to pray. All prophets of God will forever continue this message. If you're following ANY prophet of God, you'd better be praying regularly. I cannot see how the two can ever be separated and then ranked.

[Backroads]

Though I can definitely see the connection between praying and following the prophets... they are in my mind two separate things and I don't see how they outdo each other. One should be following the prophets. One should be praying. I don't see how they are getting into twisted conflict with each other.

[skippy740]

Thank you all for your participation. I was simply asking a question in the poll - not trying to 'trip anybody up' or to confuse the issue.

Here is the 2nd 1/2 of the email I received:

We were so shocked to hear her say that, that I asked her to repeat it, and she did. She said she was confronted with a situation in which she felt like she wanted to leave the church and before she left she wanted to make sure she understood exactly what the church was so she could be sure of what she was leaving or staying. That’s when she decided to break from [her] tradition and push herself to pray to God for answers, something she’d never done before because she had a prophet. I shared with the three of them that this is one of the biggest reasons some think we’re a cult.

The good news is that those who participated in the thread seem to have a good understanding of how the Prophet leads and guides the Church as a whole, and how we all still need to grow our personal relationship with the Savior.

I have no idea how this individual got so twisted away from the correct teachings. My guess was because of improper teaching at home, but that's just a guess.

[skalenfehl]

Are prophets a substitute for a personal relationship with God?

No. The prophet Nephi did an amazing job at systematically explaining this in his two books, but unfortunately it left far too many people wondering what he meant. And he was left to mourn because of it.

[Blackmarch]

Received this email today and thought I'd conduct a poll.

Here is my question and I want you to read it for your own personal opinions... NOT necessarily out of the Sunday School handbooks, etc.

Do you believe that we don't need to pray because we have a prophet on the earth to help lead and guide us?

thats kinda like sayin, "oh ill cut off my left hand because i don't really need it"...

and to quote a certain pirate; "...you need ever scrap o' scripture ya can get."

[Anddenex]

As I have been thinking about this comment more I am reminded of the life and experiences of prophets.

I am reminded of Sister Hinckley's response when asked how has it been married to a prophet. Her response, probably paraphrased, "He wasn't a prophet when I married him."

We would have no prophets today, without personal prayer. Lehi, as a direct result of personal prayer, became a prophet.

Nephi as a direct result of kneeling before our Lord and asking to know what his father saw personally, was given this experience, and other experiences which lead him to become a prophet.

We would not have a prophet, without personal revelation, and we would not have personal revelation without personal prayer.

However, I am preaching to the choir, and I am not speaking some great mystery.

[beefche]

Just a quick correction, it wasn't Sister Hinckley who said that--it was Sister Camilla Kimball (wife of Spencer Kimball).

[Vort]

Just a quick correction, it wasn't Sister Hinckley who said that--it was Sister Camilla Kimball (wife of Spencer Kimball).

Furthermore, the general interpretation given is, "He was sure no prophet when I married him! I spent decades whipping that boy into shape before he began fulfilling his potential!" I prefer the interpretation, "He was just a young man and I was just a young woman, neither of us with pretentions to any glory or position, just like many others. Callings may have come our way, but we are still who we were then."

Maybe Sister Kimball can clarify her meaning. Some time.

[mrmarklin]

None of the above.

I pray for knowledge that the current prophet is leading me correctly, and following the sciptures. Once that knowledge is obtained, it's easy to follow him.

I don't live in the past, and not sure why we would need to follow past prophets' teaching that are not in the scriptures or currently taught by the current prophet.

Remember, a lot of apostate groups split off at the death of Joseph the prophet because Brigham Young and the Twelve were leading the church astray IN THEIR OPINION. And not "following" what Joseph had taught.

[mrmarklin]

I can't choose an option.

Yes I pray. Do I take personal revelation over what the prophet says? No. However, I've never gotten an answer to prayer that conflicted with what the prophet teaches. I know there are blessing for obedience even IF we disagree with what are leaders teach us (especially the Prophet or our Bishop), especially if we think they are wrong and obey anyway.

You will never get a revelation that contradicts the current prophet. We have been promised that if the prophet begins to lead us astray, that he will be removed from his place.

A lot of people over the decades have tried to find fault and have broken away, but in general, they have NOT prospered.