Friendship Boundaries in Marriage

[wagonwheel]

Here's the scenario. My wife works part-time and due to her work situation she works quite closely with a male co-worker. They have become pretty good friends over time and our families have a lot in common. He is married and he and his wife have children that are similar in age to our children. So they swap funny kid stores and the like. All of this I have zero problem with. I've met him and his wife during a lunch date and they're a great couple. Recently they left work and went to lunch together just the two of them. I only found this out because she was telling me about her day and I asked her where she went to lunch. I asked her who she wen't with and she told me that she went with her male co-worker/friend. Had I not asked, I would not have known.

I feel somewhat uncomfortable with my wife feeling comfortable going to lunch with her male co-worker/friend and being alone socially together. I'm going to talk to my wife about how I feel about this, but my question is, for those of you who are married, what boundaries have you set in your marriage regarding the scenario I've described? Is this acceptable behavior in your marriage, unacceptable?. I trust my wife completely, I just feel like this is perhaps how a lot of inappropriate relationships start. Completely innocent at first and then... who knows down the road.

[Dravin]

I think this is a case where soliciting the peanut gallery is of limited usefulness. In the end you're uncomfortable with it and need to talk with her about your feelings, will that change if 67% of the folks here agree that such is outside of the boundaries they've laid themselves? Or 72.5% feel it's within the boundaries they've laid?

[Vort]

I would not go to lunch alone with a female coworker.

[wagonwheel]

Dravin,

You are correct. Despite the opinon(s) of the collective brain here, my feelings will remain the same and I will talk to her. I'm more curious to know what other married couples have decided is acceptable vs unacceptable regarding the scenario I've described. I'd imagine many of us have not spoken to our spouse regarding this type of scenario and we need to. I've never had this conversation with my wife. Then again, maybe I'm out in left field?

[RMGuy]

Dravin is spot on. There is a guy that my wife jokes around with all the time. I'm cool with it, and there is nothing going on, except that it is pretty humourous. If I wasn't then we would talk about it, and it would stop. But each couple is different.

-RM

[EarlJibbs]

My wife is not okay if I go out to lunch with a Female co-worker alone. I also am not confortable with it for myself. And I am often invited regularly to go "grab" something by female co-workers. If you are not okay with it. Talk to her about how it makes you feel.

[NeuroTypical]

My wife and I just try to not be alone with members of the opposite gender ever. In times when it has to happen (for work or whatever), we are totally transparent with each other, and very mindful of the other's feelings, and check to make sure it's ok with the other.

We also avoid texting/IM/email too. When there is an exception, both of us are watching the exchange. Or at least the spouse is shown the stuff later to read through as much as she/I wants.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[rameumptom]

The Church warns us to avoid the appearance of evil. Even if the two of them do nothing wrong, rumors can destroy relationships and lives. She does not want to be the brunt of rumors saying she's having an affair, etc.

[Windseeker]

Propriety, respect for marriage and consideration for ones spouse would dictate that we limit relationships with the opposite sex to business only.

[Backroads]

Y'know, I always felt a little weird being alone with a male co-worker--one incident that comes to mind was a fellow teacher who was married and I wasn't. We were good friends, but I still felt weird if it was just the two of us.

Some time ago I had an extremely sexual dream about a current co-worker (who is also really old and a bishop to boot, so that was freaky). I rarely end up these days with just myself and a male co-worker, but I believe that dream can make some sort of statement on how weird and even unsafe the dynamics can be.

I actually just finished cleansing my Facebook friends list, and I unfriended all former boyfriends.

[Bini]

Talk to your wife. I know you're already doing this.

For me. I try not to engage in activities that may upset my husband. And if I do, and he comes to me and says so, then the game plan changes and I don't do it anymore. My respect for him and his feelings are more important than my social ties. He honours the same code.

[seeking_peace]

When I was married, I felt weird going to lunch with a gay man that I worked with. Obviously, there was no sexual tension, but I still felt weird being at Wendy's with him.

[mrmarklin]

I would not go to lunch alone with a female coworker.

I would and have done it many times. BUT and it's a big one, always in a business setting. Usually when at a conference etc.

For mere socializing I do multiples. Most of my co-workers are female and in fact, I'm their boss. So I must be very careful about appearances.

[Vort]

When I was married, I felt weird going to lunch with a gay man that I worked with. Obviously, there was no sexual tension, but I still felt weird being at Wendy's with him.

EDIT: URL might be safer

Edited October 4, 2012 by Vort

[idahommie]

My wife has a male coworker that I don't approve of and she knows it. He calls the house, texts, sends emails.....his wife lives in a different state. I know my wife loves me and would not do anything improper but I don't trust her coworker. Unfortunately he will be a coworker until we pcs to a new base. It's been the source of several discussions between us.

[wagonwheel]

I talked to my wife and she was a little defensive about this conversation. She wanted an agreement that still lets her go to lunch with this male coworker. She said that shes sorry to work in a "male dominated work environment." We agreed that she qould just tell me when she goes to lunch with him or another male coworker. I told her that I wouldnt feel comfortable going to lunch with a female coworker. She said she'd be fine with me doing that. Not the result I expected.

[rayhale]

One of the General Authority, I can’t remember which one, said that he worked at a place where he would have business dinners with a female co-worker, he felt a little uncomfortable with it, so what he did was invite his co-worker to have dinner with him and his wife. I think this is a good idea. I can understand not wanting to be alone with a co-worker who is of the opposite sex, but in this day of age were women are not only co-workers but can be bosses, investors, and other business related relationships where you need to be alone with them. Here are some of my advice:

-Don’t be secretive about your dinner-dates.

-If you don’t want your spouse to do something, then don’t do it yourself.

-Talk with your spouse, set agreements with each other, and realize that you will be alone with people of the other sex.

I can understand not doing something, for the appearance of evil, but I feel that this is a case of gossip, and personally , if I know who is saying that I might be having an affair, I would bring both my wife, and my co-worker, to the person, and say, “mind your own business.”

[mirkwood]

I actually just finished cleansing my Facebook friends list, and I unfriended all former boyfriends.

That was a very wise decision.

I'm in the avoid appearances of impropriety crowd.

[J-DawgFluffy]

My dad worked for the Teamsters for a few years while he was on an injury leave from UPS. A lot of time he would end up in a car alone with a female from another local or someone involved in campaigns (My dad was a lobbyist for a few years.) He didn't like this very much- he's a good looking guy and he's had women make passes at him several times, including one sister from our ward. He always did everything he could to avoid being with a female in a car. If it had to happen, he always brought up my mom as part of the conversation almost immediately, and in his car he kept a picture of them together in front of his dashboard.

A few years ago I was informally engaged (Or engaged to be engaged as she put it) to my high school sweetheart. (Meaning, we didn't have a ring or a set date, but we had serious plans, including which temple, how we would handle the finances, stuff about kids, sex, ect.) Well there was an old friend from her high school band (we attended different schools and lived about an hour apart) who had always liked her. (He was very upset when he found out about us dating, and tried to keep in between us physically at one of her birthday parties.) She was very naive about his motivations and such from time to time. I was a little bothered when he took her to go see a movie, and she couldn't understand why. Since we couldn't agree with him never taking her out to see a movie, she agreed to always bring her little sister along. Supposing that our first real argument included him. He had suddenly become interested in the church, even though he still claimed to be an atheist on Facebook. He started going to institute with her, usually with him driving her, even though he lived no where near her. One night, she hadn't texted me or called me by about 11, and I got really worried. (She and I usually spoke every night before bed since we didn't get to see each other much durign school.) Well, after 3 missed calls, she finally picked up. She sounded quite annoyed. She told me that her friend had a bunch of questions about the temple, so they ad driven to the Orlando South Stake Center and we in the parking lot talking about the temple. (The Orland South S.C. is across the street from the Orlando Temple.) I was extremely upset, and she couldn't figure out why. She said they were just talking about the temple and nothing was going on. She then told me I needed to trust her. I told her that her friend wasn't interested in the church at midnight, and while I trusted her, I didn't trust him. The next day she agreed not to stay out that late without letting me know first, which wasn't really a satisfying agreement but the best I could get from her. That was in November I think. A month later, she told me that she wouldn't be calling, and that she and her friend were gunna go look at Christmas lights in the park. That annoyed me even more, because now she was deliberately taking away my time with her so that he could have time with her. It's interesting to note that as soon as he got a GF, he lost interest in the church. Never would have guessed that would happen.

[Bini]

I talked to my wife and she was a little defensive about this conversation. She wanted an agreement that still lets her go to lunch with this male coworker. She said that shes sorry to work in a "male dominated work environment." We agreed that she qould just tell me when she goes to lunch with him or another male coworker. I told her that I wouldnt feel comfortable going to lunch with a female coworker. She said she'd be fine with me doing that. Not the result I expected.

Not everyone will agree with me on this. I repeat that..

That kind of attitude is the surfacing of red flags - for me. If one's spouse feels more offended over compromising their friendships versus their own marriage - that's a problem - or at least the beginning of it. My husband always says to me, if I'm upset or hurting, he is too. Granted, he's a much more compassionate person than I am but I try to live by the same philosophy. If what I'm doing causes pain to my husband, even if I don't feel like it's that big of a deal, I address it and the situation changes. The focus is "us" and should never be me and another against him in any shape or form.

When my bestfriend first got married, she was very concerned about how she and her husband would manage Facebook. What would their "rules" be? In the beginning, he outright refused to unfriend all his previous romantic encounters and relationships. He basically threw in her face that she was being controlling AND that he didn't care if she had exes on her Facebook (like that makes it all okay, seriously.. ). It was a tough situation, and it would be a year or so before he finally acknowledged that he was being insensitive, and ultimately made that change to enrich their marriage.

[NeuroTypical]

A few years ago I was informally engaged (Or engaged to be engaged as she put it) to my high school sweetheart. (Meaning, we didn't have a ring or a set date, but we had serious plans, including which temple, how we would handle the finances, stuff about kids, sex, ect.)

So, you figured she should only date you exclusively, and she was still in the dating pool. You both talked about maybe getting engaged someday to maybe be married someday.

So don't leave us hangin J-Dawg - you chased one of her other boyfriends away, but what happened after that?

[J-DawgFluffy]

So, you figured she should only date you exclusively, and she was still in the dating pool. You both talked about maybe getting engaged someday to maybe be married someday.

So don't leave us hangin J-Dawg - you chased one of her other boyfriends away, but what happened after that?

Okay, I guess I was more ambiguous than I thought.

SHe and I were "exclusive" long before this ever happened with her friend. She and I didn't really give marriage a serious thought until we had been together about a year. The stuff with her friend happened before we got to that point, but she and I were still "officially together" at that point. And the only reason we never were formally engaged was that she wanted to serve a mission (which she eventually did) and she didn't think we should be engaged official before that. A lot of people we ran into together actually thought we were married. We had been very close friends for a long time before we ever admitted we loved each other.

Eventually we broke up. She had moved to California for health reasons, and after several months things continued to get more and more strained till they hit a breaking point. I said some things I shouldn't have said, (I told her I never wanted to talk to her ever again.) and we haven't really talked since. I still am in touch with her mom, whom I was also good friends with, and a few of her siblings, but she's married and moved on, and I've moved on and had my heart broken a couple more times since then.

[scatyb]

Not everyone will agree with me on this. I repeat that..

That kind of attitude is the surfacing of red flags - for me. If one's spouse feels more offended over compromising their friendships versus their own marriage - that's a problem - or at least the beginning of it.

Can I +1 this? I didn't want to say anything, but red flags went up for me too. Defensiveness is kind of a marker.

[dahlia]

So, a question -

When my husband was alive, we were pretty strict about the opposite sex friends thing - or even having males in the house when he wasn't there. For example, if a friend of his stopped by after work and my husband wasn't home yet. No guy was just going to hang out in the house when my husband wasn't there.

Recently, a coworker who is seriously dating someone asked why hadn't I had him over for dinner. I remarked (nicely) that he was seeing someone and I didn't think it would be right for the two of us to be alone. He understood and it wasn't a big deal.

But, this one has confused me a bit. For the past 2 years I've been attending a conference about 4 hours from here. I'll probably go again next year. I usually take the train up, but another co-worker has asked if I wanted to drive up or back with him. The first year I just said no, thanks. The second year I'm at the conference, this guy is getting ready to leave, and I still have to wait around for the train because I said I wouldn't ride with him.

I've met his wife a few times, there is no hanky panky involved, but it sure would be nice to have that ride - especially since the train station is an hour away from my town, which creates problems just getting there and back, and with the ride, I'd end up at my door, not an hour away.

What would you do in such a case? And does it make a difference if it's a 4 hour trip or a 10 minute ride in town? At some point, if you can't get in the car with a man, we might was well start wearing burkas and considering ourselves second class citizens.

When my husband was alive, it was an issue of not creating opportunity for temptation. Now I just need a ride - and there is the issue of being seen as collegial, which is very important in a small department.

[Dravin]

What would you do in such a case? And does it make a difference if it's a 4 hour trip or a 10 minute ride in town? At some point, if you can't get in the car with a man, we might was well start wearing burkas and considering ourselves second class citizens.

How does a standard that goes both ways turn you into a second class citizen? If a husband and wife have the same standard, such as no lunches with members of the opposite sex or what have you, or no car rides as your example, why would your choice to adhere to such standards make you any more a second class citizen than his choice to do so?

Edited October 6, 2012 by Dravin