Fallout from the new missionary ages

[EarlJibbs]

So my thought when they annouced this was as follows.

Can you imagine the immediate boost of total missionaries that this will provide? Not only the women but the men? You are going to get an influx, a years worth of boys submitting their papers. You are going to get two years worth of girls out of the gate. There may be other blessings involved, but think about how many missionaries we are going to have out at one time? The significance, I beleive is far greater than simply evening the playing field. I dont think this is the only reason, but a large one. We are supposed to have missionaries all over. In my stake alone we have a set of english speaking, spanish speaking, sisters and an elder couple... FOR MY STAKE! The church is planning on releasing something similar to other stakes soon. To provide more missionaries in a smaller radious, you will need a lot more missionaries. I think this accomplishes that.

Of course the influx will settle down after a few years, going through the system. But I think this will be a positive missionary movement. The author of the blog is simply bitter. My wife said she would have gone if this were the rule. But wasnt remorseful about it.

[Wingnut]

We are supposed to have missionaries all over. In my stake alone we have a set of english speaking, spanish speaking, sisters and an elder couple... FOR MY STAKE! The church is planning on releasing something similar to other stakes soon. To provide more missionaries in a smaller radious, you will need a lot more missionaries. I think this accomplishes that.

Ugh, we already have three sets of missionaries in my ward, and there's not nearly enough work for that many. Two sets of sisters and one set of elders.

I agree with you in general, though. I'm just seeing through the glasses of my area right now.

[EarlJibbs]

Ugh, we already have three sets of missionaries in my ward, and there's not nearly enough work for that many. Two sets of sisters and one set of elders.

I agree with you in general, though. I'm just seeing through the glasses of my area right now.

Haha! That is what we think! But they help with home teaching, less actives and the young men more than asking for refferals. I think it is a great push to strengthen inward while pushing outward.

[Vort]

On the cheek I hope. And honestly, who kisses their date on the cheek?

We don't kiss our babies on the mouth after infancy, but I know some families that do. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as tongues don't get involved.

[RMGuy]

Having married an RM, I think opening up opportunities for more sisters to serve is a wonderful idea.

For me, I always need to recognize that what works for one individual may not be ideal for another. Since I would ask that Joanna and those that think like her, respect my perspective and opinions, I likewise read her comments with a view to finding insight and understanding for those I disagree with.

I always thought that as members of the church we sought after truth, even if it was things we didn't want or like to hear. There is some truth in what Joanna is saying for some people. Just not for all.

-RM

[Wingnut]

Haha! That is what we think! But they help with home teaching, less actives and the young men more than asking for refferals. I think it is a great push to strengthen inward while pushing outward.

When they have time to schedule appointments "just to get to know [us]," without it being tied to dinner and not asking for referrals, they don't have enough work to do.

Having married an RM, I think opening up opportunities for more sisters to serve is a wonderful idea.

For me, I always need to recognize that what works for one individual may not be ideal for another. Since I would ask that Joanna and those that think like her, respect my perspective and opinions, I likewise read her comments with a view to finding insight and understanding for those I disagree with.

I always thought that as members of the church we sought after truth, even if it was things we didn't want or like to hear. There is some truth in what Joanna is saying for some people. Just not for all.

-RM

Well stated.

[carlimac]

Having married an RM, I think opening up opportunities for more sisters to serve is a wonderful idea.

For me, I always need to recognize that what works for one individual may not be ideal for another. Since I would ask that Joanna and those that think like her, respect my perspective and opinions, I likewise read her comments with a view to finding insight and understanding for those I disagree with.

I always thought that as members of the church we sought after truth, even if it was things we didn't want or like to hear. There is some truth in what Joanna is saying for some people. Just not for all.

-RM

It's great to respect those with different perspectives, but not so much when they blame their uncontrollable sobbing and unhappiness on policies set up by apostles and prophets of the Lord. They need to just buck up and get over themselves.

[RMGuy]

It has been my experience that when we denigrate others ideas, perspectives, and beliefs with rhetoric such as 'uncontrollable sobbing', that we shouldn't be to surprised when they fail to respect us. I guess I just always assumed, that as professed followers of the Saviour, that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Perhaps a thought from Brother Joseph, "How will the serpent ever lose its venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it?"

That has been my experience, of course you may have had a different one.

-RM

[carlimac]

It has been my experience that when we denigrate others ideas, perspectives, and beliefs with rhetoric such as 'uncontrollable sobbing', that we shouldn't be to surprised when they fail to respect us. I guess I just always assumed, that as professed followers of the Saviour, that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Perhaps a thought from Brother Joseph, "How will the serpent ever lose its venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it?"

That has been my experience, of course you may have had a different one.

-RM

Did you read the whole blog and comments? Several posters and Ms Brooks herself said they were sobbing (ok maybe not uncontrollably- that was an exaggeration) not only for her daughters but for her 18 yr old self and what it could have meant to her. I'm not unsympathetic to the pain of missed opportunities, but to go on to insinuate the whole gender inequality thing is ...I can't come up with any other word but selfish. Misguided and unrealistic, too.

[Wingnut]

Did you read the whole blog and comments? Several posters and Ms Brooks herself said they were sobbing (ok maybe not uncontrollably- that was an exaggeration) not only for her daughters but for her 18 yr old self and what it could have meant to her. I'm not unsympathetic to the pain of missed opportunities, but to go on to insinuate the whole gender inequality thing is ...I can't come up with any other word but selfish. Misguided and unrealistic, too.

I was crying when they announced it. I think a lot of women were. I wouldn't by any means describe my experience as "sobbing," though. "Weeping" is more accurate.

There's a lot more than mission age that contributes to gender imbalance in the LDS Church. I don't subscribe to much of the LDS female righteous indignation out there, but I can understand it, and this isn't much of it, in my opinion.

[EarlJibbs]

I wonder what we will all do if we find out that our idea of "gender imbalance" is actually the way it is supposed to be? I am not saying things cannot change or should not, only, that our opinions of such things may be way off of what the Lord plans. I hope our testimonies can stay strong through any changes. I guess this is why changes are not made all the time. Then everyone might leave?

I guess I was naive when this was first annouced by thinking that it was simply "pretty cool" and will allow many more missionaries to go out. I didnt understand that dust would be stirred up about equality in the church and so on...

[carlimac]

I wonder what we will all do if we find out that our idea of "gender imbalance" is actually the way it is supposed to be? I am not saying things cannot change or should not, only, that our opinions of such things may be way off of what the Lord plans. I hope our testimonies can stay strong through any changes. I guess this is why changes are not made all the time. Then everyone might leave?

I guess I was naive when this was first annouced by thinking that it was simply "pretty cool" and will allow many more missionaries to go out. I didnt understand that dust would be stirred up about equality in the church and so on...

That's what I thought, too. That's why I was intrigued but also repulsed by this reaction. Seems like the feminists will jump at anything to cry foul. Take advantage of any new big policy, program or revelation to find the imbalance in it. They are conditioned to look for it. I don't think they will ever be satisfied, even in the unlikely event that women were given the priesthood and served as bishops. There would be some miniscule inequality that they'd find and shake their fists at heaven over.

[Vort]

Seems like the feminists will jump at anything to cry foul.

Truth in a single sentence.

[carlimac]

I was crying when they announced it. I think a lot of women were. I wouldn't by any means describe my experience as "sobbing," though. "Weeping" is more accurate.

There's a lot more than mission age that contributes to gender imbalance in the LDS Church. I don't subscribe to much of the LDS female righteous indignation out there, but I can understand it, and this isn't much of it, in my opinion.

I just grinned ear to ear and said Wow!! But then I served a mission so I had nothing to feel remourseful about. I felt happy and scared that perhaps my daughters will 1) go on missions and 2) go earlier than I was thinking. In all honesty, I would not have served a mission at 19 even if I could have. It wasn't on my radar at that point. I was not independent enough yet. I did go on study abroad at 19 but it didn't take the kind of maturity and self motivation a mission required. If my daughters are anything like me, they will probably get a year or two of college in before going. One DD has a Sept. birthday so she could potentially go 4 months out of high school. I hope for her sake that she doesn't. Nor would I want my sons (if I had any left to go) to leave right after HS graduation. That first year of college away from home was invaluable for them.

As for the gender imbalance, I do believe it's something we're either conditioned and taught to look for, or not. I don't look for it and it doesn't bother me. But on the other hand... if my DH sat on the couch watching sports while I hovered around cooking and cleaning and changing diapers and helping kids with homework, I'd be crying foul!! Lucky for me, he's a pretty involved Dad and helpful husband.

Edited October 10, 2012 by carlimac

[Finrock]

God's "work and [his] glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." God is interested in helping people to be converted to the gospel. He knows that the gospel is the answer to all of the world's problems. There is no doubt that this was done in order to better move God's work forward in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Regards,

Finrock

[Shortstuff]

My first reaction was... lucky girls. My second reaction was oh no. When I turned 21 back in 1997 there was this attitude at BYU that if you were a girl who DIDN'T go on a mission you were somehow spiritually inferior to the girls who did. I met plenty of guys who up front said they only wanted to date or marry returned missionaries. I had an argument with a guy I barely met over this. Fact is women DO NOT bear the same responsibility as men to go on missions. So my uh oh was for all those good, righteous girls who at 19 choose to not go on missions in favor of school or simply not wanting to. I was like oh, please not again (it was toned down a bit when that fall when President Hinkley said something in Priesthood session of conference to quit pushing (guilting) girls into serving missions. Even thought President Monson so clearly stated that women are NOT under the same obligation to serve as men I am sure there's going to be a resurgence of young men with the idea in their minds that only the returned sisters are good enough. (By the way my bitterness came because At 21 I REALLY wanted to serve but my Dad was against it until I graduated college. I still married at 23 same as the returned sisters of my same age.)

[carlimac]

My first reaction was... lucky girls. My second reaction was oh no. When I turned 21 back in 1997 there was this attitude at BYU that if you were a girl who DIDN'T go on a mission you were somehow spiritually inferior to the girls who did. I met plenty of guys who up front said they only wanted to date or marry returned missionaries. I had an argument with a guy I barely met over this. Fact is women DO NOT bear the same responsibility as men to go on missions. So my uh oh was for all those good, righteous girls who at 19 choose to not go on missions in favor of school or simply not wanting to. I was like oh, please not again (it was toned down a bit when that fall when President Hinkley said something in Priesthood session of conference to quit pushing (guilting) girls into serving missions. Even thought President Monson so clearly stated that women are NOT under the same obligation to serve as men I am sure there's going to be a resurgence of young men with the idea in their minds that only the returned sisters are good enough. (By the way my bitterness came because At 21 I REALLY wanted to serve but my Dad was against it until I graduated college. I still married at 23 same as the returned sisters of my same age.)

I think this was my third reaction. There is going to be a stampede to the bishop's office, but what about the girls who really don't have a desire to go but are still wonderful, spiritual young women. Are they going to be overlooked by the RMs who have now lengthened their wish list for a wife. I hope not.

[Vort]

Frankly, a girl being an RM did not even make my list of desirable qualities. I would not have minded, of course, and I certainly saw some advantages. But full-time missionary service is not a woman's duty, and I was much more concerned about other aspects of a woman's personality and being. From what I could tell, that was generally true throughout young men of my acquaintance. I don't expect that will change much.

[carlimac]

Frankly, a girl being an RM did not even make my list of desirable qualities. I would not have minded, of course, and I certainly saw some advantages. But full-time missionary service is not a woman's duty, and I was much more concerned about other aspects of a woman's personality and being. From what I could tell, that was generally true throughout young men of my acquaintance. I don't expect that will change much.

I don't know Vort. I guess time will tell. The numbers of girls being called will go up significantly. It may become the new unspoken standard of guys and a definite plus on the girls' marriage resume. I also think the girls will feel more female peer pressure about going than they used to. So they're going to be hit from all sides.

I have a friend who told me her daughter has already seen the bishop and started her papers. She's 19 and was not even thinking about going before last weekend because she has aquired a missionary to write and is certain she's going to marry him. He's been out only 6 months or so. The kicker is that ALL five of her roommates are all of the sudden making appointments with the bishop, too. I hope the bishops with have the wisdom and inspiration to weed out the ones who are only"under the influence" so to speak and not genuinely interested in going.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's wonderful and many more women will go. But I'm pretty sure there will be lots who jump on the bandwagon only to either jump back off or sadly fall off at some point. I'm seriously grateful I didn't feel the same pressure when I was 19.

[dahlia]

I was watching some YouTube clips of the conference, especially the announcement of the new ages for missionaries. Well, YouTube being YouTube, there was one of those Hitler parodies about the announcement. I'm not sure how I feel about Hitler talking about missionaries (though it was funny as heck when he asked "all married RMs" to leave the room), but what I did find interesting was that even in this parody, the writer kept saying how the girls will want to go, how eager they will be to go.

Do you guys know what you have? When I was just curious about the Church, not even at the investigating stage, I watched clip after clip of young people opening their letters. I had no idea it was such a special thing and I certainly had no idea why these young people were so eager and ready to go. I don't know any other Church that has such devoted young people ready to give up two years for their faith. Everyone is so excited about the new rules - excited to leave home, put aside dating and hanging out and go knock on doors, go walk in the snow and the heat, go greet people at visitor centers, go to strange countries or just strange parts of this one. : ) And the girls want to go! It is amazing to me and more proof to me that "this is the right place."

Today I bought groceries for our elders. They are so grateful, but to me it is so little compared to what they do. I am so proud of all of them.

For those who don't have issues with the Hitler parodies:

[skippy740]

That was really funny! (Apparently I don't have any issues with the parodies.) :)

[Maureen]

...For those who don't have issues with the Hitler parodies:

This is a little OT but everyone seems to use this film, Downfall, for some type of parody. If you ever want to watch a great movie about the last few days of Hitler, this one's it. Now back to the regular topic.

M.

[FunkyTown]

"Marriage resumes"?

Is this a Utah thing? 'Cause I have never met a guy who said they only wanted to marry a return missionary.

[WorthofaSoul]

Don't get me wrong. I think it's wonderful and many more women will go. But I'm pretty sure there will be lots who jump on the bandwagon only to either jump back off or sadly fall off at some point. I'm seriously grateful I didn't feel the same pressure when I was 19.

I feel exactly the same way. I've seen so many of my girl friends post on Facebook "Definitely going now!" "Guess this is an answer to whether I should go or not! Starting my papers now!" And it actually kind of worries me.

For the most part, since the time that I've received my patriarchal blessing, and because of some of the things written in it, I've been preparing to go on a mission when I was 21. I'm 19 now and still my tentative plans (further discussion with the Lord may be required) for going in the Spring still alarms me and I'm even slightly worried as to whether I will be prepared spiritually, mentally, and physically for this change in time frame.

While I'm not saying that the Lord won't help those who he's called, and probably many of these sisters have been preparing for a while, or are even stronger and farther and further ahead of me on their spiritual journey,it is frightening to think of so many of these girls jumping into missions thinking it'll just be a lot of happy, warm, fuzzy moments for a year and a half only to be shocked as to how it really is. Last year, before all of this, we already had one sister come back after 3 months because she couldn't handle the rejection.

I'm sure many of these sisters are strong, but I'm not sure if they've completely thought things through. Just because the minimum age was changed, doesn't make it a requirement.

Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

[MarginOfError]

"Marriage resumes"?

Is this a Utah thing? 'Cause I have never met a guy who said they only wanted to marry a return missionary.

Return missionary was number two on my list, after a college education*. After the announcement, my wife and I had discussions about how we have failed to instill in our daughters the importance of missionary service, and that we really need to begin to prepare them now. With this new change, I am even more glad that I chose a wife with missionary experience, because she will be able to relate to my daughters on this topic in a way that I never can.

*My goal was to hit 6 or 7 of my top ten. I got 9 out of 10 with my wife, having only missed #1 (which may yet still change).