what next? discovered husband viewing pornography

[fourkidsandahouse]

Is going to my bishop and discussing the situation like tattling? There is no way to speak with him without my husband knowing as he would have to watch the children... and then he would know the bishop knows...

[fourkidsandahouse]

I've read and re-read these posts all day long. Thank you for your thoughts and time. It has been two days, and we have been together the whole days, and he has not mentioned one word. He seems to be trying to pretend that this didn't happen, or maybe thinks his promise to not do it again is the last word needed. I on the other hand am barely holding it together, as we have just found out we are expecting this past week and i am full of emotions. He fell asleep on the couch, which is good because i could not have slept well next to him, but also shows me he is avoiding me. Everything reminds me about this during the day, and i wonder what pictures are in his head as he can visibly see me deep in though. What if he never brings it up again? i can't imagine what i would do if he tried to be intimate with me with this in the air. The thought makes me sick... With the "cards in my hand" so i wait for him to be ready to talk to me, or bring it up myself?

[Vort]

It is stories like this that sometimes make me wonder if we haven't become a bit obsessed with pornography in the church, and that that focus is causing some harm that a otherwise might not exist.

Please recognize that I am NOT a supporter of this behavior. However, I know of many individuals couples even in some cases that use pornography. It has not become an obsession or an addiction for them and they are productive and happy people in life. I know of a few couples where if this scenario played out the wife would have shrugged it off as a normal part of life.

Again, I

M not seeking to excuse this behavior, but when we focus on this to such large measure I wonder if sometimes it doesn't lead to a spouse thinking things are worse than they are and actually leading to splitting up families. I know there area cases of real porn addiction , but I think they're much rarer than we in the church Amake them out to be. This sounds like a good husband and father by the OPs own statement.

I recognize theaimportance of virtue and chastity....just not sure that the way we are going about this as a church is the best approach.

-rm

What's the alternative? To say "Hey, look, porn isn't a big deal"? Because it is a big deal. Not sure how to get that message across without coming right out and saying "Pornography is evil and soul-destroying. If you're viewing porn, stop it."

[skippy740]

I've read and re-read these posts all day long. Thank you for your thoughts and time. It has been two days, and we have been together the whole days, and he has not mentioned one word. He seems to be trying to pretend that this didn't happen, or maybe thinks his promise to not do it again is the last word needed. I on the other hand am barely holding it together, as we have just found out we are expecting this past week and i am full of emotions. He fell asleep on the couch, which is good because i could not have slept well next to him, but also shows me he is avoiding me. Everything reminds me about this during the day, and i wonder what pictures are in his head as he can visibly see me deep in though. What if he never brings it up again? i can't imagine what i would do if he tried to be intimate with me with this in the air. The thought makes me sick... With the "cards in my hand" so i wait for him to be ready to talk to me, or bring it up myself?

You're not going to like this.

Ready?

First, he WILL NOT bring it up. He is already feeling shame and he is afraid of what you are thinking.

So you are going to have to bring it up.

The sooner, the better... for both of you.

Second, how are you going to start this off?

Pray for the Spirit to help you show love, compassion and concern. Don't attempt this until you are in that spot. If you are angry, frustrated, humiliated... it won't work and it'll backfire.

Remember when I told you that you're not going to like this? Here it goes:

Apologize. I know, you didn't do anything wrong, right?? What do you have to apologize for??

This is psychology. He needs to feel safe in opening up and talking to you. A great way to get a man to open up, is to apologize and then state what you are apologizing for.

1. Apologize that we're having a difficult time communicating right now. You know there is tension in the air, so apologize for the tension.

2. Apologize how you found out about this the way you did. I'm sorry that I found out in this manner. (Don't make any further comments about how you wish you could've been told. Just keep it simple and state that you're sorry that you found out in this way. After all, if he wanted you to know, he would've told you, right?)

3. Express your love and admiration for him. You are a great father, husband and provider. I married a good man. I want you to know that. And elaborate even more on this. He needs to know how much you love and respect him. Since he is in the service, talk about his love of our Country. That'll get him! :)

4. Now start with the "I Feel" stuff that I talked about earlier. This will go over much better because you are soothing his ego, shame and embarrassment before talking about how you feel. You are showing respect for the person and the man that he is, the man you married. Now you talk about how you feel and what this is meaning to you.

5. Express your concerns. What concerns? He told you he wouldn't do it again, right? Well, because this was hidden from you, trust has been harmed and damaged. This is not the way you wanted your marriage to be.

6. Ask for his input and advice. What do you think we can do to make our marriage stronger so we can work on this together? Listen to his ideas. Write them down and commit to doing one or more of them. I suggest not making any suggestions. Just listen to his ideas and keep it to that. If he doesn't mention the Bishop or counseling, don't bring it up. Just listen.

No nagging.

No belittling.

No threatening.

Just have a loving conversation with very soft tones.

Last, but certainly not least:

7. Finish it with a prayer for the two of you. I recommend that you say it aloud - thanking Heavenly Father for this man in your life. Ask for His help and guidance as you are both working through this as a couple should.

I would HOPE that after this, he sees his wife as his ADVOCATE for him and his marriage... rather than as someone he needed to hide his guilt from.

Just my thoughts.

[georgia2]

I Agree. If you don't bring it up he surely won't! He wants it to go away. Put the porn filters on for starters. The ones he can't get around. If you feel you would like to talk to the Bishop, do it. If he knows, so what and who cares? You are going for you! If he doesn't want the Bishop to know then he REALLY NEEDS to do some fast repenting, apologizing and be so blubbering sincere you will feel like it's taken care of and no need to go. I doubt this will happen since you've been with him for two days & he hasn't said a word. If you are like me and you sound like you are, this has totally made you feel stripped of your confidence as a woman.. If you don't begin to talk and let him know how this is making you feel, it will soon turn to blistering anger. After all. You are expecting HIS baby. You don't need these feelings, especially anger while pregnant. You could start the conversation with that approach and in a calm, quiet manner so he might listen that way instead of putting up defense barriers. You know him. You know if you will be able to discuss this or not.

[MorningStar]

It is stories like this that sometimes make me wonder if we haven't become a bit obsessed with pornography in the church, and that that focus is causing some harm that a otherwise might not exist.

Please recognize that I am NOT a supporter of this behavior. However, I know of many individuals couples even in some cases that use pornography. It has not become an obsession or an addiction for them and they are productive and happy people in life. I know of a few couples where if this scenario played out the wife would have shrugged it off as a normal part of life.

Again, I

M not seeking to excuse this behavior, but when we focus on this to such large measure I wonder if sometimes it doesn't lead to a spouse thinking things are worse than they are and actually leading to splitting up families. I know there area cases of real porn addiction , but I think they're much rarer than we in the church Amake them out to be. This sounds like a good husband and father by the OPs own statement.

I recognize theaimportance of virtue and chastity....just not sure that the way we are going about this as a church is the best approach.

-rm

So because some people shrug it off, it's a sign that it's not a big deal? I feel the opposite. Shrugging it off shows our society's desensitization to it. I find it disturbing that people don't see the seriousness of Heavenly Father's children behaving in that way and supporting the porn industry.

The OP's husband doesn't seem to understand the gravity of what he's done, probably because he has been surrounded by guys who feel that's the norm. For an LDS guy to react with, "Well what do you want me to say?" to this situation is just messed up. That doesn't show even an ounce of remorse. It says, "Hey, I'm a guy and we like to look at naked women. We're wired that way."

[georgia2]

The OP's husband doesn't seem to understand the gravity of what he's done, probably because he has been surrounded by guys who feel that's the norm. For an LDS guy to react with, "Well what do you want me to say?" to this situation is just messed up. That doesn't show even an ounce of remorse. It says, "Hey, I'm a guy and we like to look at naked women. We're wired that way."

yeah and or, It is what it is....... what else is there to say?

and you are right that society, and yes, we, are desensitized to it. Couples watch it together? and what else is new? The society as a whole is growing more wicked to the point we've been told it's the same or worse than when Noah was here. The only person we can control is ourself, the only environment we can control is our home. That is if there isn't another adult bringing in evil!

[hardtoguess]

It's the last days people. Every man/woman for themself.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Is going to my bishop and discussing the situation like tattling? There is no way to speak with him without my husband knowing as he would have to watch the children... and then he would know the bishop knows...

You are not in grade school or prison, where "tattling" or "being a nark" is taboo. . .think about your children, if one of them was doing something seriously wrong, you would expect one of them to tell you.

Also think of this with an eternal perspective, talking to the Bishop is the best thing you can do to help...not only to help him, but for you as well. You need some support too, this is not all about him.

[mnn727]

She has EVERY RIGHT to stop the trash from coming in to her home and on her computer.

That's not entirely true. I assume he lives there too and contributes to paying the bills.

I don't know if the O.P.'s husband has a problem with it or not, but knee jerk reactions never solved anything.

Edited November 13, 2012 by mnn727

[estradling75]

It is stories like this that sometimes make me wonder if we haven't become a bit obsessed with pornography in the church, and that that focus is causing some harm that a otherwise might not exist.

Please recognize that I am NOT a supporter of this behavior. However, I know of many individuals couples even in some cases that use pornography. It has not become an obsession or an addiction for them and they are productive and happy people in life. I know of a few couples where if this scenario played out the wife would have shrugged it off as a normal part of life.

Again, I

M not seeking to excuse this behavior, but when we focus on this to such large measure I wonder if sometimes it doesn't lead to a spouse thinking things are worse than they are and actually leading to splitting up families. I know there area cases of real porn addiction , but I think they're much rarer than we in the church Amake them out to be. This sounds like a good husband and father by the OPs own statement.

I recognize theaimportance of virtue and chastity....just not sure that the way we are going about this as a church is the best approach.

-rm

I think I understand were you are going with this RMGuy, and if so I think I know a better way... Instead of focusing sin and if it is a big or little sin (when the Lord clearly doesn't care to make such distinctions) we need to focus on developing a more Christ-like response to sin. Christ hated the sin and loved the sinner. This is the way we need to be.

This is also one of the examples Christ gives us that sound good in theory and we easily agree that it is right, but it is frustratingly hard to do in real life. In real life, generally speaking people tend to go all in in one direction or the other. While we might not say we hate the sinner, we can shun them isolate them, or otherwise distance ourselves from them. The other end is to say we are going to 'love them no matter what' which is good and Christ-like but then we cross the line to saying that the sin is OK, to enabling the bad behavior. Of course not everyone falls into the two extremes but it is much easier to do so then to stay on the strait and narrow path of Christ's example.

Now to the fourkidsandandahouse... It is easy to understand how this might frighten you, confuse you and otherwise cause your emotions to be all over the map. You are worried about your eternity and how your husbands actions are going to impact that. But to put the responsibility of your eternity on your husband's shoulders is to put your trust in the arm of the flesh. Don't do that. Put your trust in the Lord. The Lord has promised that no blessing will be denied to those that remain true and faithful. That is not dependent on your spouse, just you and the Lord. The only power you husband has is to remove himself, and if he does then the Lord will fix it for you some how.

Once you believe that, you will lose a whole lot of fear. You will lose the fear that you 'must fix' your husband or all is lost. Once you get there you are much closer to being able to act toward your husband in a Christ-like manner... Much closer to seeing him as Christ does. You will be closer to acting to help your husband because you love him, because you want him to be there with you. While holding true to the knowledge that the only way that will happen is if he chooses to work at overcoming this temptation.

Edited November 13, 2012 by estradling75

[annewandering]

I read a rather interesting post this morning on facebook about how distressed this person was that their dad had been caught viewing porn for the third time in his marriage. The person was all ready to self mutilate over it and his mom was considering divorce for her husband addiction.

What was amazing to me is that the comments, and there were plenty, advocated that the man go to the 12 step program for addiction. At least one person suggested he go on meds. That they were amazingly helpful.

Ok so porn is a bad thing and needs repentance but are we getting a bit carried away in our reactions? If a person steals something do we call him a kleptomaniac? If a person commits adultery are they a sex addict? If they drink a beer are they an alcoholic?

It seems we might need a bit of perspective. Sin is sin and needs repentance but sin is not, necessarily, an addiction. In fact if its an true addiction is it a voluntary sin?

Are we overreacting?

[skippy740]

It is a cultural phenomenon within the Church. I say phenomenon because this is the PERFECT sin to tear apart marriages... if spouses are not prepared on how to respond.

All of our church lessons are about AVOIDING temptation. But pornography & mb is a sin done in PRIVATE... and it's all accessible in your own homes that have an internet connection. This greatly INCREASES the likelihood that someone in your home will see and indulge in this sin.

So, it is a sin that is PRONE to an INITIAL overreaction from spouses who are not prepared to handle such an event in their home.

I recommend this free recording to help understand the problem of culture within the LDS church and what we can do about it: A Better Mormon | Become Part of the Solution of Pornography Addiction

[annewandering]

It is a cultural phenomenon within the Church. I say phenomenon because this is the PERFECT sin to tear apart marriages... if spouses are not prepared on how to respond.

All of our church lessons are about AVOIDING temptation. But pornography & mb is a sin done in PRIVATE... and it's all accessible in your own homes that have an internet connection. This greatly INCREASES the likelihood that someone in your home will see and indulge in this sin.

So, it is a sin that is PRONE to an INITIAL overreaction from spouses who are not prepared to handle such an event in their home.

I recommend this free recording to help understand the problem of culture within the LDS church and what we can do about it: A Better Mormon | Become Part of the Solution of Pornography Addiction

To even call three views over at least decade an addiction is ridiculous. I am beginning to think its a way to excuse the behavior and/or to avoid real issues in the marriage. Not saying porn is not an issue but is it the real issue when overreacting?

I went to that link and honestly it is annoying. Blame the spouse seems to be one of its prime factors according to that advertisement for cds.

Edited November 13, 2012 by annewandering

[skippy740]

My earlier posts were about how to handle the conversation... not to enable the behavior. The initial spousal reaction and response can set the tone for progress... but not excusing the behavior.

If you yell at him, he will clam up. If you shame him, he won't open up. This will cause him to go deeper into this behavior because this behavior enables deception, privacy, shame, guilt, etc... all the things we DON'T want.

Now, based on this, if his reaction is FLIPPANT, or dismissive of it... lack of seriousness for your feelings then you will need to determine a different course.

It's all about showing respect and concern up front. If he reciprocates NO respect or concern for your feelings... you may have either a deeper problem where he is in denial... or he really doesn't care. Then new decisions may need to be made.

[skippy740]

Sorry, but I was typing at the time time you were.

To even call three views over at least decade an addiction is ridiculous. I am beginning to think its a way to excuse the behavior and/or to avoid real issues in the marriage. Not saying porn is not an issue but is it the real issue when when overreacting?

Let's compare this to a person who drinks alcohol. Is having a drink or two the same as being an alcoholic (one who cannot control himself)?

It depends. Again, I think it's a cultural response. If an LDS spouse saw their spouse with alcohol in the house... wouldn't they overreact too? Think of how many Word of Wisdom threads we've had about cooking with alcohol. Heaven help those families if they had cooking wine in the cupboard.

Edited November 13, 2012 by skippy740

[annewandering]

Sorry, but I was typing at the time time you were.

Let's compare this to a person who drinks alcohol. Is having a drink or two the same as being an alcoholic (one who cannot control himself)?

It depends. Again, I think it's a cultural response. If an LDS spouse saw their spouse with alcohol in the house... wouldn't they overreact too?

No doubt. But the overreaction is not useful and does not make it an addiction.

I think you are probably right about it being an LDS, or at least a religious person, thing. I have actually seen worse from nonLDS people.

I detest porn. It is a serious problem which our GA's have counseled us about. I would not say we have over reacted to it being a problem. Perhaps it is more that we are not understanding what it entails. Maybe we need some education on what is and isnt addiction. More knowledge on how to deal with it in a calm rational way would be good.

[Backroads]

I wasn't criticizing anyones point. I think I was typing as they were posting.

most of the time an issue like this comes up people tell the spouse it has noting to do with them. Of course this woman's husbands decision to view porn on the internet is not because she is less of a woman, not satisfying. or whatever natural insecurity pops in to her head. It is his choice, his temptation, his battle. What I was saying is that it DOES affect her. It affects her in a big way! And of course she shouldn't act like a mother, but she has every right to let him know how much it hurts. She has EVERY RIGHT to stop the trash from coming in to her home and on her computer. So if he chooses to view this stuff he'll have to be inconvenienced a bit. Of course she should be loving and supportive and help find help if he WANTS it. But she shouldn't hide how much this hurts because that's very damaging to her emotional health AND their relationship. He has to own what he has done. He has to comprehend the long lasting effects this can or will have on her and his relationship with her AND any other woman! I'm also aware that some people who view and are addicted have issues from their past. (abuse, mental illness, exploitation, lack of communication skills) It also can be used as a substitute for real, loving, open and honest relationships. Real relationships are hard work and require sacrifice. Pictures on a screen are easy.

I generally agree with this post. Yes, helping, supporting and loving the spouse who is sinning is very important, but we can't forget about the spouse who is also suffering. This sin affects the spouse in a big way, and it's not always easy for that hurting spouse to put on the "professional therapist" hat and deny s/he feels anything but a calm and rational need to help.

georgia2,

I agree that spouses need to communicate how it makes them feel for their spouse to be an addict (or be caught doing whatever they were doing).

I think it's in HOW spouses communicate it that needs to be addressed.

georgia2, when I read your post, I'm reading it as though it's one thought, said in one breath with anger and frustration behind it. That may or may not be your intention. (Adding some paragraph breaks will help.)

If a spouse "goes off" on the other, with a fury of anger and frustration, he will work to hide it more, because now he knows how it affects her, and she's not helping any.

He is vulnerable right now because "he's been had and caught". She has all the power to turn this towards a healthy solution... or not. Just as she asked if he should be in the circle. She has the cards... and he knows it.

The spouse may have all the power, but that doesn't make it easy. It may not even be a good idea for the one spouse to have all the power as that makes that spouse responsible for everything from then on out and does not give that spouse a chance to work through his/her own feelings on the matter. Yes, exploding might not be the best idea, but it's also not fair to put one spouse completely in charge of the situation--even without exploding emotions. Yes, all she can worry about is how she reacts to the situation, but it's hard to put limits on what you can express.

It's all about the "I" statements:

I FEEL... This is your emotion.

WHEN YOU... This is the other person's behavior.

BECAUSE... Your reason for feeling as you do.

I WANT... This is where you ask for what you want... OR

I WOULD LIKE... Or how you would like for things to be different.

This is very good, but I'm curious: does the other spouse have any responsibilities at this point? This still puts all communication responsibilities on one spouse who now has to be in charge of how s/he expresses feelings while the other spouse has no such responsibility.

That's not entirely true. I assume he lives there too and contributes to paying the bills.

I don't know if the O.P.'s husband has a problem with it or not, but knee jerk reactions never solved anything.

No, knee-jerk reactions never solve anything, I completely agree.

But just because he is contributing to the bills does not invalidate her anger at porn use. That's money that can be helping the family in other ways, and I think she has a right to express dissatisfaction at how the money is being used.

And yes, she has a right to do what she can to stop trash from entering her home--it just might eventually conflict with the husband's rights at some point.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Backroads

[Backroads]

Ah, heck, skippy largely addressed my concerns while I was typing.

[skippy740]

But just because he is contributing to the bills does not invalidate her anger at porn use. That's money that can be helping the family in other ways, and I think she has a right to express dissatisfaction at how the money is being used.

I think there's enough free porn out there to get into trouble, but some people DO pay for their addiction. Doing an audit of bank & credit card statements wouldn't be a bad idea... just to know if money is feeding this addiction.

[MorningStar]

We are all sinners, but we also know that some sins are more serious than other sins, and harder to make right. A spouse faces not only needing to forgive, but having to figure out what boundaries are appropriate and necessary.

[Backroads]

I think there's enough free porn out there to get into trouble, but some people DO pay for their addiction. Doing an audit of bank & credit card statements wouldn't be a bad idea... just to know if money is feeding this addiction.

Yeah... though I was thinking of energy use in general, the stuff running the computer. Having someone say "I pay the power bill, therefore, I can use the computer for whatever I want" is not okay in a respectful family home environment.

[Backroads]

We are all sinners, but we also know that some sins are more serious than other sins, and harder to make right. A spouse faces not only needing to forgive, but having to figure out what boundaries are appropriate and necessary.

Indeed. The spouse needs to forgive, support, and love his/her partner, but that does not mean to put him/herself in a bad situation or let go of all self-care and protection. One person may have sinned, but that can lead to consequences for other people who will find themselves on their own little journeys through this sin.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Backroads
grammar edit

[fourkidsandahouse]

I definitely don't want the "power". I thought i was marrying the (priesthood) power, and i'm shaken at knowing that my response to this will make such a big difference in our marriage. I "fell asleep" on the couch last night, and he went upstairs... I'm thinking about writing a letter, because i don't think i could confidently hold a conversation that was supportive as i'm still so disgusted by the whole thing, but i feel like the longer this goes on the harder it will be, the further apart we will be when we talk. I guess part of me is waiting/hoping for him to be the man i thought he was and step up to the situation. My mind shifts from wanting to help, to nausea, to pain, to thinking of an easy way out and pretending it didn't happen... i just wish it was any other sin... i'll forever and the rest of my life wonder if he is picturing or thinking about those things every time we are together, and a woman that doesn't feel wanted can't fake intimacy.. a buzz from an alchohol offense would leave the system, but the pictures stay forever.... the feelings stay forever....

Edited November 13, 2012 by fourkidsandahouse

[Backroads]

Are you seeking help for yourself yet? You'll need support, and it might not come from your husband quite yet.

I personally like the idea of writing a letter.