heavenly mother?

[LDSpunkrocker]

so, this sunday during fast and testimony meeting this guy got up to bear his testimony, he starts by talking how he hasn't been active in many years then he starts going on about how important heavenly mother was and how great it was to see two sister pray at conference and that he had heard the church was changing and that he wanted to come see for himself, i really felt uncomfortable and you could see it on everyone's face but for some reason nobody did anything, he also stated he knew this from revelation, im pretty sure this is not doctrine as taught by church leadership even if i think its a likely idea but i got such a creeped out feeling about this guy. i prayed silently for him to stop, this is a ward with many recent converts and i think it could be damaging...maybe i was wrong but he cut it short and got down, i dont know what to think of this... ive only been active again for a month. has anyone else experienced similar things? sorry this is more rambling than coherent

[LDSpunkrocker]

ive also had people come knocking on my apartment door a couple times preaching this stuff but i had the same feeling then.

[Guest]

Well we don't deny the existence of a heavenly mother, but we don't generally talk about her as a matter of doctrine. I feel for the bishop who was probably sweating bullets and didn't know what to do. :) Awkward for everyone I'm sure. When there is truly false or offensive stuff going on at the pulpit, it's the presiding leader's duty to stop it; but I can see how this would be a tough call.

When my husband served his mission in Oakland, there was a particular ward whose Relief Society wouldn't let go of constantly preaching about and even praying to Heavenly Mother. It was a real problem, enough that they were visited by general authorities a couple of times to tell them to knock it off.

[prisonchaplain]

I immediately thought of this group: World Mission Society Church of God

If so, it's a non-LDS religious denomination that teaches Heavenly Mother lives in Korea.

[beefche]

The bishop has authority if someone says something damaging during a testimony meeting. If he felt that what he was saying was not doctrine or something truly damaging, he would either stop the individual or get up and clarify the doctrine.

I'm sorry that you felt uncomfortable during testimony meeting. I try to remind myself that everyone is different in their spiritual journey. I sometimes hear testimonies that I think aren't a "testimony", but I have to remind myself that whatever they are saying is important to them even if I don't get it.

[mnn727]

I have seen 2 different Bishops get up in different Wards to correct doctrinal matters.

[Maureen]

Back in the '70s, I would occasionally attend mutual with my LDS friend. During one activity night one of the ladies had just had her second child and mentioned to the Laurel class that she felt the presence of Heavenly Mother during child birth. If a woman did that now, would she get in trouble?

M.

[skippy740]

The only place where Heavenly Mother is mentioned... is in the hymnbook - "O My Father". And the Hymnbook is not canonized scripture.

Of course, we can extrapolate that with Eternal Families, that Heavenly Father is married... but that is not official doctrine.

And the reason it's not official doctrine, is probably to keep Her name sacred. With how much humanity defiles against God, I think it would be an even worse sin to defile Her name.

[Anddenex]

Back in the '70s, I would occasionally attend mutual with my LDS friend. During one activity night one of the ladies had just had her second child and mentioned to the Laurel class that she felt the presence of Heavenly Mother during child birth. If a woman did that now, would she get in trouble?

M.

No, if a woman did this now she would not get in trouble. She may literally have felt Heavenly Mother's presence, or she may have felt God's presence and implied her own meaning to what she experienced.

The may result in cautionary actions however if the Laurel class leader begin to teach things about Heavenly Mother, that is beyond current revelation.

[Anddenex]

Of course, we can extrapolate that with Eternal Families, that Heavenly Father is married... but that is not official doctrine.

Heavenly Mother, I would consider official doctrine.

"President Spencer W. Kimball observed: "When we sing that doctrinal hymn and anthem of affection, 'O My Father/ we get a sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the restrained, queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be less if we live so as to return there?" (in Conference Report, Apr. 1978, p. 7; or Ensign, May 1978, p. 4)."

A question asked to the saints at the end of the talk:

"How does knowing that we are children of a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father help us understand our divine nature as women? Our eternal potential?"

Edler Neil A. Maxwell:

Finally, remember: When we return to our real home, it will be with the “mutual approbation” of those who reign in the “royal courts on high.” There we will find beauty such as mortal “eye hath not seen”; we will hear sounds of surpassing music which mortal “ear hath not heard.” Could such a regal homecoming be possible without the anticipatory arrangements of a Heavenly Mother?

President Hinckley,

“Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me."

President Lee: Topic Revelation

"We forget that we have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are even more concerned, probably, than our earthly father and mother, and that influences from beyond are constantly working to try to help us when we do all we can."

Edited April 16, 2013 by Anddenex

[Wingnut]

The only place where Heavenly Mother is mentioned... is in the hymnbook - "O My Father". And the Hymnbook is not canonized scripture.

As Anddenex pointed out, the hymnbook is certainly not the only place. In fact, "heavenly parents" were mentioned several times in our most recent General Conference.

No, if a woman did this now she would not get in trouble. She may literally have felt Heavenly Mother's presence, or she may have felt God's presence and implied her own meaning to what she experienced.

The may result in cautionary actions however if the Laurel class leader begin to teach things about Heavenly Mother, that is beyond current revelation.

As a mother, I'd be much more concerned about a Laurel class leader talking to my daughter too much about childbirth than I would be about talking too much about Heavenly Mother.

[Suzie]

An early LDS poem (later it was made a song) about Heavenly Mother:

1 O my Mother thou that dwellest

In thy Mansions upon High,

Oft me thinks I still remember

When you bade your child goodbye,

How you clasped me to thy bosom,

Bade me a true son to be,

E’er I left my fathers Mansion,

To dwell in Mortality.

2. How you gave me words of councel,

To guide aright my straying feet,

How you taught by true example,

All of Fathers Laws to keep.

While I strive in this probation,

How to learn the gospel truth.

May I merit thine approvel,

As I did in early youth.

3. Tis recorded in thy journal

How you stood by Fathers side

When by powers that are eternal

Thou wast sealed His Godess Bride

How by love and truth and virtue,

E’en in time thou dids’t become,

Through thy high exalted station,

Mother of the souls of men.

4 When of evil I’ve repented,

And my work on earth is done,

Kindest Father–loving Mother,

Pray, forgive thine earing

When my pilgrimage is ended

And the victors wreath is won

Father–Mother–to thy bosm

Wilt thou welcome home thy son.

[carlimac]

I remember reading somewhere about the song Eliza R. Snow wrote- "O My Father". The point was made by a close friend of hers that her reference to "Mother" in the song was meant for her own earthly mother who had passed away. Would she meet her there in heaven again? She wasn't talking about a Heavenly Mother. I've looked for that book or a similar reference since that time but haven't been able to find it. Maybe I misunderstood what the author was saying but that's what I got out of it at the time. Not to say that a Heavenly Mother doesn't exist, but that the wrong implication may have been made out of that song all these years.

[Wingnut]

The other Heavenly Mother hymn | Times & Seasons

[Suzie]

I remember reading somewhere about the song Eliza R. Snow wrote- "O My Father". The point was made by a close friend of hers that her reference to "Mother" in the song was meant for her own earthly mother who had passed away. Would she meet her there in heaven again? She wasn't talking about a Heavenly Mother. I've looked for that book or a similar reference since that time but haven't been able to find it. Maybe I misunderstood what the author was saying but that's what I got out of it at the time. Not to say that a Heavenly Mother doesn't exist, but that the wrong implication may have been made out of that song all these years.

The friend in question is Zina D. Huntington Young and Zina's question to the Prophet Joseph Smith of whether or not she will see her mother in the other side of the veil. Even though I agree Eliza felt inspired to write this poem due to this incident (as well as her own struggle with her father's death), there are some parts of that song that to me clearly indicates she is referring to heavenly parents.

[Vort]

I remember reading somewhere about the song Eliza R. Snow wrote- "O My Father". The point was made by a close friend of hers that her reference to "Mother" in the song was meant for her own earthly mother who had passed away. Would she meet her there in heaven again? She wasn't talking about a Heavenly Mother. I've looked for that book or a similar reference since that time but haven't been able to find it. Maybe I misunderstood what the author was saying but that's what I got out of it at the time. Not to say that a Heavenly Mother doesn't exist, but that the wrong implication may have been made out of that song all these years.

Seems unlikely. I'm going from memory here, but as I recall the relevant verses, they go:

I had learned to call Thee Father in Thy royal courts on high,

But until the key of knowledge was restored, I knew not why.

In the heav'ns, are Parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare!

Truth is reason. Truth eternal tells me I've a Mother there.

When I leave this frail existence -- when I lay this mortal by --

Father, Mother, may I meet You in Your royal courts on high.

Then, at length, when I've completed all You sent me forth to do,

With Your mutual approbation, let me come and dwell with You.

The reference to "royal courts on high" sounds like the Father she is speaking to is God, so the Mother she references would not be her mortal mother. The next verse also talks about "royal courts" (unless I misremembered the lyrics), and also speaks of "all You sent me forth to do". Our mortal parents did not send us forth in this life or give us any assignments, so that phrase seems to make sense only if applied to heavenly Parents.

[sarah331]

I love that Heavenly Mother is entering into conversations more. I love that She's sacred but honestly She is a huge, huge part of what drew me to the Mormon beliefs of God.

I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about Her, personally. Here is a great article summarizing the difference between doctrinal and cultural approaches to Her: http://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/50.1PaulsenPulidoMother-482bf17d-bbc5-4530-a7cc-c1a1b7e5b079.pdf My LDS brother-in-law sent it to me when I started asking about Her.

[Anddenex]

As a mother, I'd be much more concerned about a Laurel class leader talking to my daughter too much about childbirth than I would be about talking too much about Heavenly Mother.

I don't believe I would be concerned about a Laurel class talking "too much" about childbirth; however, what is "too much"? I think it really depends on the depth of the conversation and whether or not the Laurels are asking the questions.

I have no problem with people talking about Heavenly Mother, our Heavenly Parents. However, should the conversation move into speculation and unrevealed truths to open heart and listening young women, then yes this would be a problem.

Keep to the doctrine in Church, not our speculations, unless it is openly stated, "This is my personal opinion, my speculation, on the subject matter."

[sarah331]

^ Yes. I don't even know how you can talk about Her without admitting that you're speculating.

Which I think is fine but I think it's important, like you said, to admit that you're talking about unrevealed, unknown things. I like thinking about what She's doing up there but I know I don't *know* anything about it.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I feel like we talk about Heavenly Mother all the time, which is God. There are times where there is reference to God as an individual, priesthood authority but I am strongly sure that God has an eternal marriage and He likely does not view Him self as an individual but as a sealed, united person. We can say this because we know that this is what is needed for us to become more like Him. Likewise, I am sure Heavenly Mother doesn't see her self as an individual and it may be odd for her to be referenced that way. She would be incomplete without her eternal companion and certainly would not be a mother without that unification. I am sure that in the pre-mortal life we realized that the only way to become like our Heavenly Father was to be worthy of such a companionship. I am sure that is why we took on this stewardship so that we can prepare for greater, similar responsibilities. This is probably why we don't separate out a Heavenly Mother as I am pretty sure they do not even see their selves as separate individuals. (Personal opinion - not LDS doctrine).

[Anddenex]

Which I think is fine but I think it's important, like you said, to admit that you're talking about unrevealed, unknown things. I like thinking about what She's doing up there but I know I don't *know* anything about it.

Me too. I, personally, think it is good for us as members to ask questions and think upon that which has not been revealed. :)

[Wingnut]

Me too. I, personally, think it is good for us as members to ask questions and think upon that which has not been revealed. :)

...and that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

[estradling75]

Me too. I, personally, think it is good for us as members to ask questions and think upon that which has not been revealed. :)

Ponder and think sure...

The problem we encounter is not with the pondering and thinking... Its when people start using those thoughts to act counter to what has been revealed. The most common manifestation of this in this case is praying to Heavenly Mother.

Now people can pray to or whomever they want (the Israelites prayed to a Golden Calf at one point) But it has been revealed to us that we address our Heavenly Father in the name of Christ.

Its possible that praying to Heavenly Mother is ok... But until it is revealed as ok its also very possible that such action is setting up their own Golden Calf. And because of this we need to be very, very careful to say within what has been revealed.

[sarah331]

I'm just curious but what about then addressing both? As Heavenly Parents?

I don't necessarily think it's wrong to pray to Heavenly Mother, other than it hasn't been revealed. There's something I like about, say, a mother in labor reaching out to HM in a very quintessential female situation. But I'm okay with not praying Her, too -- again, as it hasn't yet been revealed.

Just curious about the lumping of them as Parents, if that is considered "okay."

[estradling75]

I'm just curious but what about then addressing both? As Heavenly Parents?

I don't necessarily think it's wrong to pray to Heavenly Mother, other than it hasn't been revealed. There's something I like about, say, a mother in labor reaching out to HM in a very quintessential female situation. But I'm okay with not praying Her, too -- again, as it hasn't yet been revealed.

Just curious about the lumping of them as Parents, if that is considered "okay."

In the scriptures Christ addresses his Father... Joseph Smith prayed to the Father. I have heard of no current Church Authority pray to anyone but the Father in the name of Christ. Therefore it seems the standard is quite clear.