Is Obesity a Choice?

[Vort]

The're are out there. All it takes is google search for adrenal gland dysfunction. I was looking for some chronic pain information the other day and was surprised to come across another one. I didn't bookmark it. Sorry.

The general rule is that the person making an assertion is responsible for providing the evidence. Thus, someone who asserts that uncontrollable obesity is commonly caused by glandular disorders has the onus to provide the evidence, rather than dismiss the request with a handwave and another assertion that the information is out there somewhere, so go find it.

Not trying to be critical, just noting that the duty to provide evidence of your assertion is yours, not Dravin's to go dig it up.

[Guest]

Interesting responses. Being somewhat small in my youth - I doubt anyone was bullied (or beaten up) more than I was. When I went on my first date at age 16 with the car (and a girl about a foot taller) I went to get our theater tickets and was given change and one adult and one child ticket.

But my question is - is obesity a choice?

One reason I ask the question is because it often appears that there are some subjects that people find offensive? Especially if someone appears to have a different opinion. It appears this is defiantly one such subject.

Also many years ago I read a book (yes in my youth) that had a very lasting affect on me. The book was titled "Teaching Values". The book was about making choices based on one's values. Interestingly the book pointed out that although most think choices are made based on values that the reality is that many make choices that are in conflict with their own values.

I openly admit that I have what can be called prejudices. I believe people should make choices based on values they cherish and love. Things they are willing to stand up for. Things they are willing to say and openly admit are good principles. Good principles that are worthwhile not just for one individual with an opinion but something that they feel so good about that they want to share and encourage others to follow.

Am I evil or to be banned from the forum for believing in principles of good health? For encouraging others to make healthy choices? To live by values - to make choices based in values that I believe - and know to be good and true?

If someone is participating in a religion that they do not believe in or do not value or cherish - is it offensive to invite them to participate in a religion based on values that they can cherish? That they know are good and right principles?

Likewise, if you know something to be healthy and you cherish good health - are you offended if someone is willing to encourage you to make healthy choices rather that popular choices that are "temptations".

Is this not in essence the gospel of Christ? Not to live by appearances and what others accept or say is okay or make excuses for - but rather to live according to deep values inside one's very core principles that they know are good, right and true and of benefit?

I am not saying what people should eat - I have a grandson with server allergies that cannot eat many things that are healthy to me. He should eat and do things that are healthy for him.

But is not good health a microcosm of other things???? Can we learn spiritual things through physical principles?

If this turns out to be my final post - I hope the forum understands that I love and care for you all. So much that I will encourage you all to make good choices based in values you cherish and love and cheer for and not the choices you feel you must apologize and make excuses for.

The Traveler

So talk about healthy eating, and the benefits of exercise, instead of making it about the perceived worthiness or spiritual strength of people based on their size.

[Dravin]

The general rule is that the person making an assertion is responsible for providing the evidence. Thus, someone who asserts that uncontrollable obesity is commonly caused by glandular disorders has the onus to provide the evidence, rather than dismiss the request with a handwave and another assertion that the information is out there somewhere, so go find it.

Not trying to be critical, just noting that the duty to provide evidence of your assertion is yours, not Dravin's to go dig it up.

Also, something to add to those telling people to Google something is that Google doesn't return the same results to all people. It adjusts search results by your browsing and search history, even learning, to my understanding, what terms you think are interchangeable. What it boils down to is you can't count on my search results being identical to yours, so even saying "Google "XYZ" it is the third site listed." may not work out.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Dravin

[rayhale]

Do some research on High fructose corn syrup , it is linked to obesity, and it is additive. If you think that the cigarette and beer companies have a monopoly on purposely adding addicting additives in their products, you would be wrong. And let’s not get started on grocery store layouts, where the milk, eggs, and essential food items, are ALWAYS in the back of the store. Phrases like, multi-grain, low-calorie, low-fat, light, [or a host of other phrases] does NOT mean that they are healthy, good for you or anything else, since there is little to no regulation on what they legally mean, or how low they need to be to be called “low”.

I always laugh when a new diet fad comes out, like when it was the fad to have low(to no)-fat foods, that snack foods are almost(if not) always the first to adopt that diet fad.

[mrmarklin]

We have had numerous discussions about agency, moral agency, free will and choice and how these things fit into our spiritual development and eternal salvation. We have also discussed free will verses determinism as well as the evils of being judgmental. In the full light of such things and with understanding of the ramifications and consequences (both physical and spiritual) of exercising choice – Is obesity a choice? Is it a choice in opposition to being physically fit? Is obesity a spiritual choice?

The Traveler

It's certainly a choice in the vast majority of cases. How spititual it is YMMV.

[Vort]

Do some research on High fructose corn syrup , it is linked to obesity, and it is additive.

High fructose corn syrup is half glucose, a six-carbon sugar, and half fructose, another six-carbon sugar. Regular old sugar (sucrose) is a twelve-carbon sugar composed of half glucose and half fructose.

In other words, high fructose corn syrup is just sugar, almost identical to regular sugar. It is linked to obesity for the same reason regular sugar is linked to obesity, because it's more or less EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

[mikbone]

Do some research on High fructose corn syrup , it is linked to obesity, and it is additive. If you think that the cigarette and beer companies have a monopoly on purposely adding addicting additives in their products, you would be wrong. And let’s not get started on grocery store layouts, where the milk, eggs, and essential food items, are ALWAYS in the back of the store. Phrases like, multi-grain, low-calorie, low-fat, light, [or a host of other phrases] does NOT mean that they are healthy, good for you or anything else, since there is little to no regulation on what they legally mean, or how low they need to be to be called “low”.

I always laugh when a new diet fad comes out, like when it was the fad to have low(to no)-fat foods, that snack foods are almost(if not) always the first to adopt that diet fad.

I second the evils of high fructose corn syrup. As a matter of fact, I have banned the product from our home. We substitute the following:

Cane Syrup

See also:

Bacon and Cane Syrup Pecan Pie - Fine Cooking Recipes, Techniques and Tips

Edited May 8, 2013 by mikbone

[Dravin]

High fructose corn syrup is half glucose, a six-carbon sugar, and half fructose, another six-carbon sugar. Regular old sugar (sucrose) is a twelve-carbon sugar composed of half glucose and half fructose.

In other words, high fructose corn syrup is just sugar, almost identical to regular sugar. It is linked to obesity for the same reason regular sugar is linked to obesity, because it's more or less EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

There does appear to be some evidence that they behave differently, in rats at least.

Fluffy Article: Princeton University - A sweet problem: Princeton researchers find that high-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain

Scientific Article: Miriam E. Bocarsly, Elyse S. Powell, Nicole M. Avena, Bartley G. Hoebel, High-fructose corn syrup causes characteristics of obesity in rats: Increased body weight, body fat and triglyceride levels, Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior, Volume 97, Issue 1, November 2010, Pages 101-106, ISSN 0091-3057, 10.1016/j.pbb.2010.02.012.

(ScienceDirect.com - Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior - High-fructose corn syrup causes characteristics of obesity in rats: Increased body weight, body fat and triglyceride levels)

Edited May 8, 2013 by Dravin

[pam]

Stress - another poor choice.

Not always a poor choice made by the person with the stress.

[pam]

Do some research on High fructose corn syrup , it is linked to obesity, and it is additive. If you think that the cigarette and beer companies have a monopoly on purposely adding addicting additives in their products, you would be wrong. And let’s not get started on grocery store layouts, where the milk, eggs, and essential food items, are ALWAYS in the back of the store. Phrases like, multi-grain, low-calorie, low-fat, light, [or a host of other phrases] does NOT mean that they are healthy, good for you or anything else, since there is little to no regulation on what they legally mean, or how low they need to be to be called “low”.

I always laugh when a new diet fad comes out, like when it was the fad to have low(to no)-fat foods, that snack foods are almost(if not) always the first to adopt that diet fad.

Plus low fat doesn't mean that a food item isn't loaded with sodium or sugars.

[Guest]

Not always a poor choice made by the person with the stress.

True... but as mama always says, you can't choose what other people do, but you can always choose how you react to them.... barring medical conditions (I seem to be getting rapped for not stating that in every post).

[Dravin]

Plus low fat doesn't mean that a food item isn't loaded with sodium or sugars.

I think my favorite example of this is when you find Fat Free! on candies such as gummy worms, cotton candy, or red vines.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Dravin

[Magen_Avot]

...But my question is - is obesity a choice?

...The Traveler

Does one go shopping and pick out a 50lb bag of 'obesity'?

It is a result not a choice itself.

Setting out on a quest to instruct/inform/teach or change the dining habits of a target group would benefit from some planning.

When missionaries visit an investigator they don't say something like, "Why did you choose to be a member of the wrong church?"

We make an invitation and teach/baptise those who are 'ready'.

The point is that there are many ways to present your topic based on what you want from your audience.

(added) This is not in reference to the OP, sorry,... should have stated that earlier.

So,... love the eater yada, yada, yada.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Magen_Avot

[mnn727]

I am exploring opinions to related to obesity - is obesity a choice? Would you like to offer an opinion?

Yes, my opinion is you are much too concerned about other peoples weight. Perhaps you should worry more about your shortcomings and less about what others shortcomings are.

[Vort]

I think my favorite example of this is when you find Fat Free! on candies such as gummy worms, cotton candy, or red vines.

At least it's honest, even if slightly misleading. What I deeply hate is the packing that proclaims "90% fat free!", which does NOT mean that the product is only a tenth as fat-filled as one might normally expect. Instead, it means that the product is 10% pure lard.

[jerome1232]

No one would buy it if it said "10% fat!"

[Seminarysnoozer]

Reason for my question:

Recently I was talking to a friend that has lost about 100 lbs or so in less than 6 months. The reason is that this individual was forced to change their eating habits and other health habits. There were several factors, one being a heart attack that nearly took their life depriving a family with several children of one of their parents. I do not think it is necessary to go into all the specifics but the goal of this individual was not their looks or weight but rather their health. BTW this person is in their 30’s

But according to them – they were in the beginning forced to make good health choices but the results of their “good” choices has been dramatic. They went from a 40 inch waist to a 30 inch waist. But diet has been only part of their new choices – They also decided to exercise regularly – making exercising for health a new priority.

What is interesting is what this individual tells me has changed in the treatment they receive from others. They indicated that they use to be made fun of for being “fat” and that such comments were always somewhat in just. But this is nothing to be compared to the manner in which they are now treated. The comments are no longer in just. They have been accused for being a “fanatic” and becoming “extreme” about health. They are no longer invited to lunch with co-workers because they are so extreme about what they eat. The exact terms I will not use on the forum. If they walk into an office while someone is eating that the person often becomes embarrassed and apologizes for what they are eating. I would note that my friend claims that they have never made any statement to anyone else about what they are eating and has only responded to questions about what they themselves are eating.

My friend tell me that even at church (LDS) there have been comments that they are being extreme in their health concerns and that they are too skinny and are acting too extreme.

I thought it interesting that my friend feels that there have been more derogatory comments about their healthy choices than when they were making unhealthy choices.

The Traveler

I think, as with all moral decisions, the judgement will be based on where the heart is. Is it done with an eye single to the glory of God or is it done so the person can have some carnal result, i.e - be more sexually attractive so they might have unfaithful relationships etc.? Understanding what is in the heart, of course, is outside our ability right now (for the most part).

Is the weight loss done to follow the word of wisdom and to respect the body as a temple? Or is it done to increase carnal pursuits and desires? Is it done to call attention to self, like wearing an expensive dress? The question of whether right or wrong comes down to what falls within the commandments and obeying the commandments with the right intentions. A terrorist, for example, might work on keeping their body fit so they can be a more effective killer.

[RipplecutBuddha]

We have had numerous discussions about agency, moral agency, free will and choice and how these things fit into our spiritual development and eternal salvation. We have also discussed free will verses determinism as well as the evils of being judgmental. In the full light of such things and with understanding of the ramifications and consequences (both physical and spiritual) of exercising choice – Is obesity a choice? Is it a choice in opposition to being physically fit? Is obesity a spiritual choice?

The Traveler

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but no, obesity is not a choice. It is sometimes the consequence of choices made. Obesity can be brought on by diet, level of physical activity, horomonal changes, medications, metabolism changes, genetics, diseases, glandular conditions, and on and on.

Only two of those are easily addressed by most any individual. The rest tend to need a physician's attention and they can get expensive quickly.

At the same time, body weight is not a sure indicator of health. Some people are far healthier with additional weight than they would be at 5-8% body fat.

Just as you cannot judge one's worthiness before God by looking at church attendance alone, you cannot judge one's health by looking at their weight. Best to simplify it and say 'you cannot judge' :)

[Dravin]

At least it's honest, even if slightly misleading. What I deeply hate is the packing that proclaims "90% fat free!", which does NOT mean that the product is only a tenth as fat-filled as one might normally expect. Instead, it means that the product is 10% pure lard.

What's fun is that due to the higher energy content of fat something being 90% fat free does not mean that only 10% of the calories are coming from fat. If you have 100 grams of product (I'm assuming it is entirely macronutrients for ease of calculation) and it is 45 grams of protein and 45 grams of carbohydrates and 10 grams of fat the calories from fat percentage is actually 90/450 or 20%. To actually be 10% of calories from fat you'd need the product to be 95% fat free.

I'm not sure why someone would assume that 90% fat free means only 10% calories from fat, but I've noticed websites correcting the misconception so it must be out there.

[Vort]

There does appear to be some evidence that they behave differently, in rats at least.

Fluffy Article: Princeton University - A sweet problem: Princeton researchers find that high-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain

Scientific Article: Miriam E. Bocarsly, Elyse S. Powell, Nicole M. Avena, Bartley G. Hoebel, High-fructose corn syrup causes characteristics of obesity in rats: Increased body weight, body fat and triglyceride levels, Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior, Volume 97, Issue 1, November 2010, Pages 101-106, ISSN 0091-3057, 10.1016/j.pbb.2010.02.012.

(ScienceDirect.com - Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior - High-fructose corn syrup causes characteristics of obesity in rats: Increased body weight, body fat and triglyceride levels)

I stand corrected. Thank you for these links.

[mnn727]

What I deeply hate is the packing that proclaims "90% fat free!", which does NOT mean that the product is only a tenth as fat-filled as one might normally expect. Instead, it means that the product is 10% pure lard.

Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days........

[prisonchaplain]

I haven't read the whole thread at all, but if the OP is getting at when obesity becomes sin the answer is when it is rooted primarily in gluttony.

[Suzie]

Is obesity a spiritual choice?

Please define exactly what do you mean by "spiritual choice".

[applepansy]

The general rule is that the person making an assertion is responsible for providing the evidence. Thus, someone who asserts that uncontrollable obesity is commonly caused by glandular disorders has the onus to provide the evidence, rather than dismiss the request with a handwave and another assertion that the information is out there somewhere, so go find it.

Not trying to be critical, just noting that the duty to provide evidence of your assertion is yours, not Dravin's to go dig it up.

Fair enough. However I didn't and don't have time. :) I haven't been back online since I posted my response to Dravin. I will do my best to find the references, but it will take a long time. These studies weren't all found through google, but enough are and not just my google, many friends who are doing similar research have found them too. That's why I said the studies are out there, but you have to go look for them. I don't have a file on this stuff anymore. My focus has been chronic pain for the last 15 years and the obesity stuff has just popped up over and over and over again.

The reason I made my comment wasn't to dismiss Dravin, but rather to let anyone struggling with obesity know that they need to, with their doctor, look into adrenal function failure.

I also wasn't going to debate the issue. :)

Anecdotal: A good friend posted these two things on April 19th. "When I had my Neuro appt I got weighed .... 201 lbs GONE BABY !" (this is a very short time frame... months. And she's not doing anything different. Same diet. Same activity level. The only difference is the adrenal issues being treated)

and

"I gained almost 300 lbs because of Adrenal Insufficiency.... meaning no Cortisol was found in my body at all .... and I (the test results) appeared opposite HEAVY should have been a RAIL (backwards genetic blah) SO I have been on the Adrenal replacement for 3 yrs and like when I had to have my Thyroid removed in 91 it took at least the whole 3 yrs for my body to say hey WAIT ! ..... Jan 2010 I saw a new Endo and he was stunned I was still living with my levels @ rock bottom. Endocrine problems stink ! BUT I AM STILL HERE THANK GOD ! Then on April

Edited May 10, 2013 by applepansy

[Praetorian_Brow]

Its fashionable at this point in time to look as young as possible and keep that as long as possible. Its no surprise that people would crave that 15 year old look. Its just gross to see how much Cosmo influences the people in the checkout lines, with their photoshopped impossible bodies. Its also sad when people compare themselves to a very small minority of the population.

There is something to be said for keeping oneself healthy though. As not many people find over eating attractive. However, wait until another great Western famine happens and as history shows us, larger people are once again attractive.

I don't believe that silliness about choosing ones lot in life in our previous life. I believe you are inferring that larger people chose their body type in the pre-existence. If thats so, I must have chosen to have an above average intellect, chose an unusual amount of moles, choose to have Elf/Spock ear tips and a chose a learning style that baffles people.

Fashion is about deluding ourselves into thinking that we can be just like them, while believing we are less than we are.

Saturdays Warrior sure messed up a lot of people.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Praetorian_Brow