"Orthodox" Mormons

[Backroads]

Now, I have no intention of offending anyone on this forum and therefore apologize in advance if I do so. I just got a bit of culture shock I did not expect to have.

I grew up and currently live in Northern Utah. Yesterday, we traveled down to Southern Utah. Not the longest of trips, not going anywhere I considered particularly exotic.

Yet the people there were so... different from what I am used to! Everyone! They were all speaking of spiritual promptings and the Holy Ghost in their lives, etc., etc. Oh, I've met a couple of people like that here and there, but this seemed to be everyone.

My dad, on the road home, used the term "Orthodox" Mormons to describe the culture we had encountered.

Do you feel there is any orthodoxy in Mormonism? The official Church itself? Or is this just pure local culture existing as it will?

[mirkwood]

I guess the first question is what does your dad mean by "orthodox Mormons?"

[Leah]

Now, I have no intention of offending anyone on this forum and therefore apologize in advance if I do so. I just got a bit of culture shock I did not expect to have.

I grew up and currently live in Northern Utah. Yesterday, we traveled down to Southern Utah. Not the longest of trips, not going anywhere I considered particularly exotic.

Yet the people there were so... different from what I am used to! Everyone! They were all speaking of spiritual promptings and the Holy Ghost in their lives, etc., etc. Oh, I've met a couple of people like that here and there, but this seemed to be everyone.

My dad, on the road home, used the term "Orthodox" Mormons to describe the culture we had encountered.

Do you feel there is any orthodoxy in Mormonism? The official Church itself? Or is this just pure local culture existing as it will?

I don't live in Utah and members here talk like that all the time. I didn't realize it was unusual.

[Bini]

I had asked this question awhile back, wondering what an "Orthodox Mormon" would be, since other denominations use the term to describe strict followers.

[Bini]

This might be more relevant. When I was a young teen my family took a trip to San Diego from St. George Utah. I remember seeing a huge difference in dress standards of the Young Women. Some wore tops and skirts that would have been considered inappropriate back in my home ward. So in that instance, I think southern Utahns might be either more conservative or they raise the bar on what is LDS standard in comparison to some areas/states.

[Backroads]

I guess the first question is what does your dad mean by "orthodox Mormons?"

He felt they were sticking more closely to strict standards (extremely modest dress, no non-LDS media in the house) and being more vocal about spiritual matters.

[mnn727]

We here in "the Mission Field" think all Utah Mormons are kinda strange.

<< Notice the smiley before you get mad.

[LittleWyvern]

He felt they were sticking more closely to strict standards (extremely modest dress, no non-LDS media in the house) and being more vocal about spiritual matters.

That seems reasonable for the use of "orthodox." Probably the more technically correct term to use for this category of things would be fundamentalist but that term already has a very specific and somewhat unrelated meaning in Mormonism.

[skippy740]

I think another term that could be used in this context is 'sheltered' - as in 'sheltered' from the influence of the 'evil in the world'.

[estradling75]

When I think "Orthodox" vs "Non Orthodox" I think doctrinal differences.

I don't think there are any doctrinal differences between the two group. I think there are Cultural differences. And since your really didn't expected it you had a bit of a "Culture Shock."

[NeuroTypical]

They were all speaking of spiritual promptings and the Holy Ghost in their lives, etc., etc. Oh, I've met a couple of people like that here and there, but this seemed to be everyone.

My dad, on the road home, used the term "Orthodox" Mormons to describe the culture we had encountered.

Oh, I dunno if that's the right application of the word or not. I think "Utah mormons" is a better phrase, but then I tend to ruffle some feathers when using it myself.

[viannqueen3]

Yes I think sheltered is a good term for it too. I have some family members I would consider orthodox/sheltered mormons and they do happen to live in a very, very rural area of central utah (town of 200 people). The church is their entire life and he is a paid employee at the temple so it consumes his work life too. Pretty much every conversation with them references to the church, what they are doing at church, callings, whats happening at the temple where he works, promptings they've had etc. Coke/ Pepsi is still banned. They are retiring a few years early even though they really can't afford it because they really, really want to go on a mission right now. They've always struggled financially so this recent turn of events has surprised us.

Another event that recently happened that in my mind puts him in this category. He is typically a very anxious guy and recently went on a flight that had a 50 minute layover. He was sweating bullets over this and doesn't fly much. He retold this story about how he'd been praying that he wouldn't miss his next flight and when he talked to the attendant she let him get off the flight quickly and he made his flight and he gave us this big story about what a big blessing that was/ spiritual experience it was for him. I'm glad he made his flight and all but I don't think most people consider making a connecting flight a spiritual experience.

*Stepping off my snarking soapbox.*

[Smudge]

Over here we refer to the "Utah bubble" refereeing to the fact when you and work with so many LDS life experiences will be different to that where you might be the only member in your town/work/school/volunteering.

But then even in NH I noticed differences to over here. For example while working at camp I visited a "small branch" which was as big as some of the wardswehave not only 20-30 members

Edited June 28, 2013 by Smudge

[classylady]

As a child, my family moved from Northern California to Southern Utah. We had a huge cultural shock! Some of the lifestyle choices that many Utah "Mormons" were making, we would have considered them "Jack" Mormons. But, here in Utah, they still considered themselves active LDS even though they weren't following the Word of Wisdom, etc.

I've lived in a lot of different places here in Utah. I've found that in the different wards that I've lived in, there can be some real differences in the spirituality of the ward. I'm not sure how to pinpoint the actual differences. I have one friend, (and I don't particularly agree with this), but he said he's found more spirituality in the more affluent wards. I think he actually saw a difference in knowledge of the gospel, rather than spirituality. But, then again, that isn't necessarily true either. I have no idea where the differences come from.

[annewandering]

Considering that was in an area close to fundamentalist breakoffs, there might be some influence from them. In fact are you sure they are LDS mainstream?

[pam]

We here in "the Mission Field" think all Utah Mormons are kinda strange.

<< Notice the smiley before you get mad.

Some moderators are Utah Mormons that like to ban people for making derogatory remarks about us.

Notice that there isn't a smiley face.

Until now.

[dahlia]

My dad, on the road home, used the term "Orthodox" Mormons to describe the culture we had encountered.

I thought I invented the term! I talk about 'orthodox' Mormons all of the time - people who won't have a TV in the house (unless it's connected to Netflix), who don't have caffeinated drinks even though there's no WOW against it, women who spend inordinate amounts of time crafting, etc., or who never say 'no,' even when they are overwhelmed with children and callings.

We have a lot in our college town ward who went to BYU or who are from Utah/Idaho. Their ways are different than mine, a lowly convert who can still curse like a sailor and watches R rated movies without waiting for someone's approval or thinking I'm a sinner.

They don't bother me, I just notice the differences and know I'll never be like them.

[Dravin]

Oh, I dunno if that's the right application of the word or not. I think "Utah mormons" is a better phrase, but then I tend to ruffle some feathers when using it myself.

It's not uncommon for "Utah Mormons" to be said with a sneer or air of superiority, that kinda thing tends to ruffle feathers. For those using it without the attitude there can be a degree of guilt by association, particularly if it's a context poor medium (such as a message board). To be fair those utilizing the phrase, "Back in Utah..." or "Well, in Utah..." with the same attitude tend to ruffle feathers too.

[Backroads]

Considering that was in an area close to fundamentalist breakoffs, there might be some influence from them. In fact are you sure they are LDS mainstream?

I assume as much.

[Bini]

I thought I invented the term! I talk about 'orthodox' Mormons all of the time - people who won't have a TV in the house (unless it's connected to Netflix), who don't have caffeinated drinks even though there's no WOW against it, women who spend inordinate amounts of time crafting, etc., or who never say 'no,' even when they are overwhelmed with children and callings.

Oddly, I recall Idaho being like this. I was up there a lot visiting family when I was married to my ex-husband and this description nails the attitude of some of the wards there that I got to experience.

[Anddenex]

Well, what if your from California but when people meet you they think you are either "Idaho Mormon" or "Utah Mormon" -- what does that make me?

Orthodox, but not Orthodox, luke warm (spew me out), not connected to Netflix, but have Hulu+ (but this is more due to a lack of funds and my wife wins this war).

I am then an "Ortho-Cali-Mormon"

Yep, genius I just coined a phrase, feel free to use it anytime.

[Bini]

Actually, I tend to agree with those that are using the term "Utah Mormon", for example. I've seen a lot of cultural differences between states, regardless of religion, so it makes sense that some practices are either more strict or relaxed based on what is culturally norm in that area.

Anatess has used scenarios (which I can relate to firsthand) of how dress code in Asia is different from here in the US. You attend a ward in the Philippines and it's not unusual to see families show up in flipflops and tank tops. That's pretty common in local wards. But if you go to expat wards with foreigners, you'll see that many will dress more "modestly" and "appropriately", more finely dressed overall. It really is culture in a lot of instances.

[EarlJibbs]

First off, I have enjoyed this thread Backroads. It has made me think. Please note that I am not bashing on anyone that has given their opinion.

Are we really labeling ourselves from just being plane old Mormons to many subtypes as Orthodox, liberal and so on? If I was talking to someone and they said something like "Yeah, Brother Sanderson said that you are liberal Mormon" would I be offended? This is a legitimate question that I have, does anyone see a danger in labeling each other this way? I mean, much of the guidance that we have been given regarding the WOW and our moral standards (to a point) are to be interpreted by us. So is it truly strange that we would not adopt the same thinking on open ended living standards? Like Caffeine, it is not against the WOW but it is also not specifically stated that we should drink it. I believe that labeling eachother within the faith could lead to the same immediate judgment that many people place on what political party you claim.

I am not close minded about this, but my opinion is that this type of labeling each other will not help the saints uplift one another.

And then looking at my avatar, do you suppose that I am an old hermit living in the woods? :) I guess it matches my tone.

Edited June 28, 2013 by EarlJibbs

[Bini]

First off, I have enjoyed this thread Backroads. It has made me think. Please note that I am not bashing on anyone that has given their opinion.

Are we really labeling ourselves from just being plane old Mormons to many subtypes as Orthodox, liberal and so on? If I was talking to someone and they said something like "Yeah, Brother Sanderson said that you are liberal Mormon" would I be offended? This is a legitimate question that I have, does anyone see a danger in labeling each other this way? I mean, much of the guidance that we have been given regarding the WOW and our moral standards (to a point) are to be interpreted by us. So is it truly strange that we would not adopt the same thinking on open ended living standards? Like Caffeine, it is not against the WOW but it is also not specifically stated that we should drink it. I believe that labeling eachother within the faith could lead to the same immediate judgment that many people place on what political party you claim.

I am not close minded about this, but my opinion is that this type of labeling each other will not help the saints uplift one another.

And then looking at my avatar, do you suppose that I am an old hermit living in the woods? :) I guess it matches my tone.

There are always dangers in using "labels", as we've seen in the hashing and rehashing of certain topics. But I'd also agree that when there are certain and obvious differences, there must be a word or term used to identify those certain and obvious differences. To be clear, there is a great difference between using a non-threatening label and a threatening one. These days, the N-Word is vastly considered to be derogatory, regardless who it comes from -- people don't want to hear it. But what's the alternative that's acceptable? It seems that over time, Blacks have preferred the term "African American", and so that's what I tend to use.

Now, the only way that I see that a person would be offended being called a "Liberal Mormon" was if he were a conservative, and vice versa. It can be tricky because we interpret others in our own light and not necessarily how they see themselves. I lean towards being less conventional, so it's only fitting for others to refer to me as being a Liberal, etc -- it's not offensive. But if someone said, "Hey, you're really conservative," I'd be like what!? -- I am not! Really? It would be a first, I admit.

[EarlJibbs]

There are always dangers in using "labels", as we've seen in the hashing and rehashing of certain topics. But I'd also agree that when there are certain and obvious differences, there must be a word or term used to identify those certain and obvious differences. To be clear, there is a great difference between using a non-threatening label and a threatening one. These days, the N-Word is vastly considered to be derogatory, regardless who it comes from -- people don't want to hear it. But what's the alternative that's acceptable? It seems that over time, Blacks have preferred the term "African American", and so that's what I tend to use.

Now, the only way that I see that a person would be offended being called a "Liberal Mormon" was if he were a conservative, and vice versa. It can be tricky because we interpret others in our own light and not necessarily how they see themselves. I lean towards being less conventional, so it's only fitting for others to refer to me as being a Liberal, etc -- it's not offensive. But if someone said, "Hey, you're really conservative," I'd be like what!? -- I am not! Really? It would be a first, I admit.

I hear you. There are deifnitely distinctions of how you may worship depending on where you live. Thanks for the response. My question was genuine. I really wanted to hear what others thought. Personally, I dont care what others think about the way I worship or devote myself to the Lord. And those that would get offended may just have been offended over any other reason anyhow.

I suppose there can be a peculiar people within a peculiar people.