Let's talk about White Privilege

[Guest MormonGator]

Let me clarify.

 

 

It's headbanger code.

:)

[Crypto]

I really hate that for some reason, there is no inversion of discrimination. Discrimination isn't strictly a negative term. It simply means you are treating things differently, whether you discriminating for or against something doesn't make it reverse, inverse or any other verse of discrimination, it's just discrimination.

Why do I wear green shirts more often? Because I discriminate for them. It simply means I'm noting the difference between things and making a judgment call.

/end off topic rant about misuse of a word.

In agreement with your post mostly. When I say inversion of discrimination, I said that because looking at racism and calling it white privilege is an inversion of the perspective, not the act itself.

[Windseeker]

More #CrimingWhileWhite

 

KillerBunnyFooFoo @PolitiBunny

Hrm. Was pulled over for speeding and I got a ticket. CLEARLY I need to figure out this whole #CrimingWhileWhite thing. *eyeroll*

 

AdolfJoeBiden™ @Bidenshairplugs

I once punched a cop, he said "thank you sir, may I have another", because I'm white.

 

Kyle Becker @IJReviewEditor

My white friends & I gathered stray puppies & loaded them in a Howitzer, shot them over the city. Cop winked, thumbs up #CrimingWhileWhite

 

Ban Collectivism @mrgeology

#CrimingWhileWhite << I was caught trying to load a stolen ATM machine into my pickup. A cop saw me and gave me a hand. Then, we had a beer.

 

cameron carnes @cameroncarnes

Got pulled over with ski masks, gunpowder, knives, a grappling hook and night vision goggles. Cops told me to be safe. #CrimingWhileWhite

 

Wajahat Ali @WajahatAli

My last name and skin tone gets me special TSA loving at airports & extra security questioning. Oh, wrong hashtag. #CrimingWhileWhite

 

Jim Branch @jamesbranch3

#CrimingWhileWhite Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner cheating on his taxes....

 

[The Folk Prophet]

Sad but true. You have several problems. One: You need to go by "MormonGuitar", not "MormonGator". Also, don't be all holier than thou. It's sad but true that the memory remains if you're the unforgiven. I'll keep you in mind wherever I may roam, my friend of misery. Mama said not to give up the struggle within or believe that to live is to die; just turn the page

 

Could it possibly be that Vort is a Metallica fan?

[Guest]

Let me clarify.

 

 

It's headbanger code.

 

Holy rolly polly batman!

[NeuroTypical]

So what is White Privilege?  It can show up in many different ways.  For example, when you give your teenage "The Talk" it's about sex.  When Black parents give their kids "The Talk" it's about how to respond to police officers.

 

I and my family are about as white as they come.  Yet for some reason:

- My wife and I have been pulled over for "fitting the description".

- We've had more than one talk with our kids about how to respond to police officers.

- I am the descendant of slaves.  (I don't think they used the word, but basically, my ancestors hit the US shores after escaping Scotland because they were fed up with being pressed into wars to serve the British King.  Back in those days, you had two options - either go to war as asked, or be killed and have your family raped and sold or killed along side you.)

 

I have a very black Facebook buddy.  Here's what he had to say about it recently [brackets mine]:

 

Black lives matter? Well, my brother's and sisters please prove it to me. I don't want a march. I want you to stop drugging each other, robbing each other, and killing each other over a look, a set, or a neighborhood. Stop, giving cops a reason to target me just because of how I look. Show me change. Show the world change. Marching ain't gonna do anything if you just go home and talk down to a [n-word] or downgrade another black life to just some "stupid [n-word]." Sorry about my language, but the hypocrisy I am reading on Facebook is astounding. Change starts from within. Not just by noticing the wrongs of others; and definitely not from being on fire for a cause for only 1 month (if that). It would have sucked if Dr. Kings occupation lasted for only 1 month. If you aren't willing to stop strapping, capping, and papping, you don't care about the black mans future. If you keep listening to music that promotes the destruction of our race, that is who you are becoming. Change your situation, change yourself. Then feel free to remind everyone else of their change.

Call me a sell out. Tell me that I don't understand because I am from Colorado Springs, and not from "your hood;" it doesn't matter to me. I AM AWAKE. AND,I have been to and through many hoods where fools die young, and don't fear them, because I know who my God is.

If you young black men and women are truly ready for change...PROVE IT. This is a life long process, not a spur of the moment "get together." Goodness.

[Bini]

Read the original post and sort of skimmed through the responses.

 

Yes, there is White Privilege. It varies from city to city, and state to state, and country to country. Here's an observation I've found being "brown skinned" and married to a White man. When we travel together, especially to third world countries, he is always treated to the highest standard - people will greet him and wait on him as if he were a king. Unless I am physically by his side or holding his hand, there have been many times that I have been completely invisible. When I was a bit younger and still vacationing with my folks and siblings, there were awkward moments when people would assume I was "help" to the family, and not apart of the family. These are personal experiences of mine, and confirmation that yes indeed, there is White Privilege.

 

In America, we are a melting pop of rich culture and diversity. It's heartbreaking that despite the progressive changes we have made as a society, we are still so far off target when it comes to everyone being equals. No one group of people is better or more important than another - yet society enables it. Depending on the demographic, certain areas have more White Privilege and certain areas have more Minority Privileges. I agree that we can only move forward starting by examining our own behaviour and how we react to those different from ourselves. Nobody wants to be labelled as a bully. Nobody wants to be labelled as a lowlife. More tolerance is needed on both ends of the spectrum.

[Suzie]

White privilege is real and alive and the perceptions about race and ethnicity are mostly due to ignorance. I believe if we travel more and get to know other people's culture, our perception of race and equality should be completely different. In my experience, the people who happen to travel a lot and experience different cultures tend to have a more realistic/down to earth approach towards race.

 

Having said that, just like white privilege exist, we also have racial minority privilege. At work, a friend of mine who is Black likes to comment about how much work we have to do compared to other colleagues so she compares a few of us with slaves in a cotton-field and our co-workers who have higher ranks as house slaves.

 

I always tell her that perhaps for her the comparison is funny (people do laugh even though I don't find it amusing) but I also remind her that there is no way on earth that  *I* could get away with making such remarks, I would be called immediately for a meeting and be fired.

[RMGuy]

Best illustration I have found on this is here: http://www.boredpanda.com/lesson-about-privilege-awareness/

Like any illustration it is not perfect and it has some flaws, but it does do a good job of explaining why many are crying foul and others are looking around wondering what the big fuss is about.

[Windseeker]

Best illustration I have found on this is here: http://www.boredpanda.com/lesson-about-privilege-awareness/

Like any illustration it is not perfect and it has some flaws, but it does do a good job of explaining why many are crying foul and others are looking around wondering what the big fuss is about.

 

But even that example is flawed because it assumes again..that all people of color are in the back and all white people are in the front of them. 

 

Loved this comment - 

 

I like this. I have a few suggestions.

Middle school teachers should teach an additional lesson: the privileged kids at the front will learn how it feels to get spit-drenched paper balls aimed at the back of their heads by less privileged kids in the rows behind them.

To teach about communism, place the bin in the center of a circle, so that the bin is equidistant from every kid. Discuss what a great idea this is. Then let the kids arrange their chairs as they wish. Notice how quickly the utopian circle is abandoned, while the more aggressive and sociopathic kids move directly in front of the bin and block the other kids.

Explain socialism by asking the biggest bullies in the class to form a small inner ring (called "the leaders") around the bin. The leaders command the outer ring kids to toss their paper balls to the leaders "for the good of the class," while secretly throwing the balls from the outer ring into a separate trash can, and dropping their own paper balls into the privileged bin. If an outer ring kid tries to leave, a leader punches him and sends him back to his seat. The leaders high five each other.

 

[Backroads]

Okay, so we recognize others are not as close to the recycling bin. Why are people angry at the ones who are closer?

[Guest]

Okay, so we recognize others are not as close to the recycling bin. Why are people angry at the ones who are closer?

 

Easy answer... because they want what somebody else has.

[paulsifer42]

I haven't even read all the comments yet, or even the OP.  I just wanna say how excited I am to watch this can-o-worms unfold.

[Vort]

Okay, so we recognize others are not as close to the recycling bin. Why are people angry at the ones who are closer?

 

BECAUSE IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!

[paulsifer42]

So, I had a Race and Minority Relations class in college, where the teacher essentially taught, class after class, that white people (especially men) were bad and hurting all other races.  I assume she often talked to her husband about this annoying white kid who wouldn't shut up and listen in class, because I often called her out on many of the logical fallacies she spewed.  

 

For that class, I read "Black Like Me".  I highly recommend it.  It's a true story about a white man who took pills to make his skin go dark and lived for a while in the deep south. What I learned from the book, black people have struggles that I simply don't have.

 

She also showed us a movie of a study where two asians, two blacks, two hispanics, and two whites were put in a room (I debated PCing that sentence up a little, but decided it wasn't worth the effort.  I'm sorry if anyone is offended for me not wording that correctly).  In the movie, one black man asked one white man what it meant to be white.  The white man had no answer (which was obviously a crime).  The teacher asked us to write a paper about he movie.  I thought about what it meant to be white and wrote it down.

 

My take away from the class:  Everyone has trials and struggles, and some of those trials and struggles are linked to our race.  A black man does have to deal with things I don't, and I have to deal with things he doesn't.  It's not a bad idea for both of us to recognize the struggles of the other.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

If I understand you, LP, "check your privilege" is in theory merely a synonym for "give thanks".

 

LOL, no that isn't what I meant.  I haven't heard the term "check your privilege" for a long time so I wasn't thinking of it when I wrote this.  I agree with you though that saying to someone "check your privilege" is offensive.  And does not help in the goal of understanding one another.

 

I skimmed through the articles.

 

I saw the bullet point on what "white privilege" is.  I have no problem with the idea that everyone should have the same privileges as a white person does (assuming which we usually do that it is the top)  In fact I think that was the whole point of Martin Luther's I have a dream speech.  I have no problem with the idea of trying and working toward lifting everyone to that level.

 

But I have to agree with JAG that is not how the accusation of "white privilege", or "male privilege" or even "white male privilege" is commonly used.  In my experience it is used to try to get me to shut up, sit down, and take whatever 'they' think is fair from me.  And that is just not going to happen.

 

Pull others up...  sure... try to pull me down.  No way.

 

This is a good point.  It may depend on who you are talking to.  I don't experience "white privilege" used in this way...it might help that I'm not a man.  The way I see it used is the way that I described.  Though I'm not arguing that it isn't used the way you stated as well. 

 

Yes, there is White Privilege. It varies from city to city, and state to state, and country to country. Here's an observation I've found being "brown skinned" and married to a White man. When we travel together, especially to third world countries, he is always treated to the highest standard - people will greet him and wait on him as if he were a king. Unless I am physically by his side or holding his hand, there have been many times that I have been completely invisible. When I was a bit younger and still vacationing with my folks and siblings, there were awkward moments when people would assume I was "help" to the family, and not apart of the family. These are personal experiences of mine, and confirmation that yes indeed, there is White Privilege.

 

In America, we are a melting pop of rich culture and diversity. It's heartbreaking that despite the progressive changes we have made as a society, we are still so far off target when it comes to everyone being equals. No one group of people is better or more important than another - yet society enables it. Depending on the demographic, certain areas have more White Privilege and certain areas have more Minority Privileges. I agree that we can only move forward starting by examining our own behaviour and how we react to those different from ourselves. Nobody wants to be labelled as a bully. Nobody wants to be labelled as a lowlife. More tolerance is needed on both ends of the spectrum.

 

Thanks for this Bini, you captured what i was trying to say much better than I did.

 

 

White privilege is real and alive and the perceptions about race and ethnicity are mostly due to ignorance. I believe if we travel more and get to know other people's culture, our perception of race and equality should be completely different. In my experience, the people who happen to travel a lot and experience different cultures tend to have a more realistic/down to earth approach towards race.

 

Having said that, just like white privilege exist, we also have racial minority privilege. At work, a friend of mine who is Black likes to comment about how much work we have to do compared to other colleagues so she compares a few of us with slaves in a cotton-field and our co-workers who have higher ranks as house slaves.

 

I always tell her that perhaps for her the comparison is funny (people do laugh even though I don't find it amusing) but I also remind her that there is no way on earth that  *I* could get away with making such remarks, I would be called immediately for a meeting and be fired.

 

 

I agree with you on this Suzie.  Your co-worker's comments would make me uncomfortable.

[Windseeker]

Had a friend today at work that has never gotten a ticket in his life and was pulled over, after he showed the officer his concealed weapons permit he was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car.  He was eventually let go with a ticket for obstructed tags. I saw his tags and they are in no way obstructed. The poor guy sat down and just started sobbing. He felt so humiliated and embarrassed. Yesterday he stopped traffic on the 95 when his tire blew and he hit the guard rail. He's had a bad couple of days. 

 

The cop today was white and he happens to be black. He feels strongly it was because of his skin color. Other black co-workers shared their own experiences confirming it was because of his skin color. I told them to be careful to rush to judgement. I've had jerk cops and nice cops. Plus it's the first time he's ever, EVER, been pulled over and he's at least in his early 30's. I've been pulled over a ton, but I don't have a concealed weapons permit, so I'm not sure if the officer was following protocol. 

 

Anyway, funny how some things we talk about here hit close to home. 

Edited December 5, 2014 by Windseeker

[Vort]

Had a friend today at work that has never gotten a ticket in his life and was pulled over, after he showed the officer his concealed weapons permit he was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car.  He was eventually let go with a ticket for obstructed tags. I saw his tags and they are in no way obstructed. The poor guy sat down and just started sobbing. He felt so humiliated and embarrassed. Yesterday he stopped traffic on the 95 when his tire blew and he hit the guard rail. He's had a bad couple of days. 

 

The cop today was white and he happens to be black. He feels strongly it was because of his skin color. Other black co-workers shared their own experiences confirming it was because of his skin color. I told them to be careful to rush to judgement. I've had jerk cops and nice cops. Plus it's the first time he's ever, EVER, been pulled over and he's at least in his early 30's. I've been pulled over a ton, but I don't have a concealed weapons permit, so I'm not sure if the officer was following protocol. 

 

Anyway, funny how some things we talk about here hit close to home. 

 

In fact, if comments and complaints were limited to "This looks like racism", many of us would be fully on board. To hear that a man pulled over for a minor traffic violation was handcuffed because he showed an officer his concealed weapons permit makes my blood boil (assuming there were no relevant mitigating factors, like that he threatened to blow the cop's head off or something). I agree that a rush to judgment is very bad, but I have never heard of someone being cuffed and put in a police car because he had a concealed weapons permit. The fact that your friend is black makes this darned suspicious in my eyes. I can totally see a demand for an internal investigation, and maybe an effort to hire cops with a modicum of common sense.

 

But I will never join my voice with such people complaining about "white privilege". It is hatred and bigotry in a transparent mask. Furthermore, it is hatred and bigotry targeted very directly against most of the people in my life that I love and care about most.

 

Those who attack my loved ones can go hang. They will get no support from me, ever.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Vort

[Windseeker]

In fact, if comments and complaints were limited to "This looks like racism", many of us would be fully on board. But I will never join my voice with such people complaining about "white privilege". It is hatred and bigotry in a transparent mask; furthermore, it is hatred and bigotry targeted very directly against most of the people in my life that I love and care about most.

 

Those who attack my loved ones can go hang; they will get no support from me, ever.

 

Exactly. 

 

Honestly it's a victory against those like the "white privilege" dividers when a person of color can vent his doubts and frustrations to a white acquaintance because it proves he obviously knows not all white people are racist and he can get understanding and support from someone not of his race.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Windseeker, I think you make some great points here.  On the one hand, being handcuffed and put in the cop car for showing the Concealed Weapon permit, the ticket about the tags is very suspicious.  On the other hand, since he has never been pulled over before even I would be hard pressed to call that racism.  I think it was just a jerk cop.  We've all had run ins with those at least once in our lives, right? 

[Guest]

Windseeker, I think you make some great points here.  On the one hand, being handcuffed and put in the cop car for showing the Concealed Weapon permit, the ticket about the tags is very suspicious.  On the other hand, since he has never been pulled over before even I would be hard pressed to call that racism.  I think it was just a jerk cop.  We've all had run ins with those at least once in our lives, right?

From my vastly different growing up experience... A cop got shot dead right in front of us as we were getting ready to cross the street from the school... He was a jerk cop and the New People's Army (a rebel group in the Phils) targeted him to "clean up" the police force. At that time, I was ambivalent about the NPA wiping out jerk cops because there were a lot of them and the NPA keeps them straight... as I grew up some, I realized there are much better ways to do this... But, I have to say, there are a lot of jerk cops!

Another one from my experience... Our house got robbed (I gotta tell you about this in a different thread because it's a ghost story!) by a bunch of jail birds... We found out that the correctional officers has a gig going where they let out prisoners at night to rob houses, they all come back to deliver their loot and they all share in the goods! The prisoners are just happy to go back because they are very poor folks and they get to eat three squares in prison...

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Another one from my experience... Our house got robbed (I gotta tell you about this in a different thread because it's a ghost story!) 

 

I look forward to that.  My husband and his Uncle that he was living with at the time have a ghost story too.  I don't have any personally.

 

Your cop experience sounds traumatic!

[Guest]

I look forward to that.  My husband and his Uncle that he was living with at the time have a ghost story too.  I don't have any personally.

 

Your cop experience sounds traumatic!

I have tons more of those cop stories... Philippines, ya know. We don't have the justice system like the US... Which is one of the reasons I really love the way this country is set up.

[Palerider]

Here is my experience of white privelage ....came home from Mission in 1981 and applied for a government job. Had to take a test and scored a 98 %. The person doing the hiring was a friend of my Dads. He told him he would not be able to hire me because I was not a minority and I wasnt a Veteran.

[Palerider]

I need to add that I am not upset about this after all these years....just found that interesting.