cell phones and white stones

[askandanswer]

I wonder if my cell phone is a larger and more primitive version of the same type of device referred to in D&C 130: 10 – 11

 

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:10 - 11)

10  Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

11  And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it.  The new name is the key word.

 

The larger question is whether God make use of more advanced versions of technologies that we might vaguely recognise? Or do all His powers and omniscience come from within His own unaided abilities? Or somewhere else? 

[Blackmarch]

I wonder if my cell phone is a larger and more primitive version of the same type of device referred to in D&C 130: 10 – 11

 

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:10 - 11)

10  Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

11  And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it.  The new name is the key word.

 

The larger question is whether God make use of more advanced versions of technologies that we might vaguely recognise? Or do all His powers and omniscience come from within His own unaided abilities? Or somewhere else? 

the difference between magic and science is how much you understand.....

[skalenfehl]

Gileadi has talked about televisions being worldly urim & thummim. A smart phone, ipod, ipad, etc, would easily qualify, in a sense as one. You might be interested in this excellent essay, which addresses your post in the following link:

 

Twelve Diatribes of Modern Israel

 

Despite the great miracles of deliverance Israel's God wrought for his people, they quickly turned to other gods. The Old Testament is full of examples of the Lord's people making images for themselves after they inherited the promised land. They made images of the god Baal and set them up in a house of Baal (1 Kings 16:32; 2 Kings 10:26-27). They set up images in their own houses (Judges 17:4; 18:30) as well as in the houses of their gods (Nahum 1:14). They made images of men and "committed whoredoms" with them (Ezekiel 16:17). They "doted" upon images of the elite of Babylonian society, images in color, images of people in splendid attire (Ezekiel 23:14-16). In homage, as it were, to a urim and thummim, Gideon made an image of an ephod, and "all Israel went whoring after it" (Judges 8:27). The worship of cleverly fashioned images became a way of life, preoccupying the craftsman and patron alike (Hosea 13:2)...

Common to all this sort of idol worship was an infatuation with the image of a thing rather than its reality. Images require time, energy, and materials to conceive and produce. When made, images represent the fruits of men's labors, something to admire and "dote" over. Meanwhile, people get distracted from what is real. God no longer forms the center of their thoughts, and they have taken the thing they emphasize out of context. Even if they realize their error, however, people still want a return on their investment. They cannot simply discard the idol. Once they make it, it is hard to get rid of. Throughout this preoccupation, people "bend down" toward their idols— away from the Most High God. The word "serve" in Hebrew (^cabad)¹⁴ also means "work." Whatever people workat—spend time and resources on, set their hearts upon—that they serve...

 

Not much imagination is required to see parallels of image worship in the modern gentile culture, and thus among the Latter-day Saints. While statues and pictures of deity play their part, "images of the creature" appear much more prolifically. The greater part of today's entertainment industry comes to us in the form of images via television, movies, and videos. These comprise images of people, of birds and beasts, images in color, of male and female.

We put up the graven and molten apparatuses which transmit these images in our own houses as well as in houses set apart for that purpose. Upon these images we dote, preoccupied for hours at a time with our telestial urim and thummim. In order for the images to entertain us, we must bend ourselves down toward them. Preferably, we worship in the dark, like imbeciles mindless of one another. When a social need arises, we resent its intrusion. Our behavior toward one another is colored by what our images dictate. Their power, somehow, diverts our whole attention.

Moreover, to acquire an apparatus that transmits these images, we must spend precious resources, laboring for "what is not bread" (Isaiah 55:2). We set our hearts on the privilege of possessing such an apparatus as we would on a worthy goal. In this, too, there exists an element of competition with, and thus alienation from, others. Those of us who invest more resources than our neighbor will enjoy bigger and better images. Of course, we justify this investment on the basis of personal enjoyment. Make no mistake, the images are there for our self-gratification. When we invite others to view them with us, it palliates our soul to know that they share the same interests. It normalizes an abnormal pastime...

 

[Guest]

We'll all have iphones in heaven?

[askandanswer]

Thanks Skalenfehl, that's quite a well written essay. I'll keep it in mind if I ever have to give a talk or lesson on how we use our time.

[askandanswer]

We'll all have iphones in heaven?

 

No, we'll all have little white stones that will serve the same function, and more. And they will all have a new name, that only the one who receiveth it will know, and the new name will be the key word, or the pass word, to unlock our stone so that we may view it. 

[estradling75]

Well if you want to continue cell phone/white stone idea... Then anyone that has tried to view their cell phone in bright sunlight can sympathize with Joseph putting his seer stone in an hat to block out light while translating the Book of Mormon.

[Crypto]

No, we'll all have little white stones that will serve the same function, and more. And they will all have a new name, that only the one who receiveth it will know, and the new name will be the key word, or the pass word, to unlock our stone so that we may view it. 

I wonder if the new name will be in a perfect language that conveys the entire essence of a thing perfectly. Which would remind us of things pertaining to godliness, and something that may not be understood quite right without striving towards celestial.

 

I wonder if it uses encryption, and the new name is like a cryptographic key?

Edited February 24, 2015 by Crypto

[mnn727]

 

11  And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it.  The new name is the key word.

 

The new name/key word = iPhone

 

Seriously, I've often wondered if the 'stone in the hat' Joseph Smith used was actually a crystal that served the same purpose as our computer/tablet/phone screens.

Edited February 25, 2015 by mnn727

[askandanswer]

or maybe what was in the hat was simply a more advanced version of google translate or something similar. 

[Blackmarch]

We'll all have iphones in heaven?

only if steve jobs can sell it to God... XD

I have a bro who was able to see a seerstone. he says they are really funky. I'll have to ask for more details.

[askandanswer]

Back to the second part of the OP:

 

The larger question is whether God make use of more advanced versions of technologies that we might vaguely recognise? Or do all His powers and omniscience come from within His own unaided abilities? Or somewhere else? 

[Blackmarch]

Back to the second part of the OP:

 

The larger question is whether God make use of more advanced versions of technologies that we might vaguely recognise? Or do all His powers and omniscience come from within His own unaided abilities? Or somewhere else? 

the eyes aid one's mind to see light. the body is just a vessel. My thoughts are if you are advanced enough you'll have all the functions you need as part of you.

[askandanswer]

so additional functions get added as we advance? sort of like speeded up evolution? is this approach consistent with the belief that our resurrected bodies, to which these functions will be added, is pretty much the same as our present bodies, except that our resurrected bodies will be glorified? 

[The Folk Prophet]

Back to the second part of the OP:

 

The larger question is whether God make use of more advanced versions of technologies that we might vaguely recognise? Or do all His powers and omniscience come from within His own unaided abilities? Or somewhere else? 

 

Would a B.C. human vaguely recognize a cell phone?

[Vort]

For the record, I'm pretty much the polar opposite of a fan of viewing God as a fantastically technologically advanced alien. Not telling anyone what they should or should not discuss here, just making my own feelings known so that when some anti-Mormon starts lecturing me about the Mormon space god from planet Kolob, I can tell him what a blithering idiot he is (or some more charitable form thereof) without feeling hypocritical.

[askandanswer]

Would a B.C. human vaguely recognize a cell phone?

I think a better comparison would be whether a 17th century musketeer would recognise a machine gun. Or whether Wilbur Wright would recognise a 747. Or whether Karl Benz would recognise a Ferrari. I suspect, although of course there is no way to be sure, that some of the functions and processes of some of the technology we use today, are the prototypes of what will be used in the next life. I think that as we get closer and closer to the last days, aspects of this world will start to more closely resemble aspects of the next, including the technology of the next world.

[askandanswer]

For the record, I'm pretty much the polar opposite of a fan of viewing God as a fantastically technologically advanced alien. Not telling anyone what they should or should not discuss here, just making my own feelings known so that when some anti-Mormon starts lecturing me about the Mormon space god from planet Kolob, I can tell him what a blithering idiot he is (or some more charitable form thereof) without feeling hypocritical.

 

A lot of people who have studied previous versions of humanity, and animal behaviourists, have come to the conclusion that the use of tools is one of the distinctive, or distinguishing features of, intelligence. Assuming that there is a link between intelligence and the use of tools, and given that, as taught by several prophets, God is the source of the inspiration of the principles upon which many tools of the latter days have been built, and that these tools play a role in the furthering of His work on this earth, it would seem a little odd if tools and technology played no part in the next life. It may be that the rapidly growing proliferation of tools and technology, and there ever increasing usage may simply be preparing us for their widespread use after this life. I vaguely recall hearing a teaching ascribed to one of the latter-day prophets that one of the biggest surprises we will face in the next life is how much it is like this life and how familiar we are with it. 

[spamlds]

Around our house, we call the iPhone the "iStone."  lol

[Blackmarch]

For the record, I'm pretty much the polar opposite of a fan of viewing God as a fantastically technologically advanced alien. Not telling anyone what they should or should not discuss here, just making my own feelings known so that when some anti-Mormon starts lecturing me about the Mormon space god from planet Kolob, I can tell him what a blithering idiot he is (or some more charitable form thereof) without feeling hypocritical.

altho going by dictionary definition of alien, he would be (god the father, not Christ- as christ was both born on earth and a citizen of a nation). And no i don't think he a super advanced roswell alien or somesuch flying around in a super interdemensional ufo-city called heaven or kolob either.

But... he is far ahead of us, and that's advanced in my book.

 

 

so additional functions get added as we advance? sort of like speeded up evolution? is this approach consistent with the belief that our resurrected bodies, to which these functions will be added, is pretty much the same as our present bodies, except that our resurrected bodies will be glorified? 

It's one possibility.

I'd certainly consider being made so as not to die would certainly be an upgrade. So I wouldn't consider such an idea to be inconsistent. On the other hand having external something(s)/individuals in place that allows him to exercise power over his dominion isn't inconsistent either.

theres also the semantics of "if God made everything we are of and in" probably muddies the concept of what technology is a bit in this case as well.