Why is quality interfaith dialogue so rare?

[pkstpaul]

Could it be that interfaith conversations are harder when family are involved?  In a more neutral setting, I would guess many people would be interested in hearing the perspectives of one who grew up religious, and then left the faith.  Even in the evangelical world, an author wrote a book about the perspectives of people who had left.  "What we can learn from those who've left?" or something to that effect. 

I think a conversation about leaving a faith is only of interest to a former member or athiest. To discuss what someone doesn't like about a faith is to attack the faith. I don't discuss why I left Catholisim with my devote Catholic family but I do discuss with them Mormonism in the context of how the gospel brings me happiness.

[prisonchaplain]

Here's an example of what I hand in mind by learning from those who have left:  http://www.christianbook.com/refugees-sociologists-reveal-people-not-their/josh-packard/9781470725921/pd/725925?event=ESRCN  This is a book that hasn't even released yet.  I saw another one at the site about why kids leave--dated in the 90s. 

[Guest]

Why would quality dialogue be rare between a musician and someone who has never played an instrument?

Why would quality dialogue be rare between a baseball fanatic and a football fanatic?

Why would quality dialogue be rare between a stay-at-home mom and a single working woman?

 

Apparently we define "quality" as a measurement of unity - we say we have had a good discussion if at the end of it we find a kindred soul who is interested and knowledgeable in the same subjects that we are interested in. 

 

I don't think we all define quality that way.  I think many of us define it as an exchange of (often opposing) viewpoints where people respect each other and show it by talking about issues rather than each other.  A quality dialogue could easily exist between people in the examples you offered above.

[prisonchaplain]

A good example is that I've turned no one here until a Pentecostal LDS, nor has anyone convinced me to be an LDS Pentecostal.  Still, there's been some high quality exchanges.  :-)

[David13]

Yeah.

Interfaith conversations, like interpolitical conversations are not productive.  Seldom is any mind changed.  Frequently heated disagreements break out, fights if you will, hard feelings, unhappiness, etc.

Now if somebody has questions, maybe.

But certainly in politics the questions are frequently loaded.  And again unnecessary in that no one changes their mind.

dc

[AnthonyB]

As a non LDS poster, the reason I like this forum is that LDS so often come to scripture from such a different perspective.

I enjoy the comparisons and exchange of ideas.

 

As an example, I am now much more appreciative of Jesus suffering in the garden, then before talking to LDS. .

[Laniston]

I know something that has created barriers for me has been differences in vocabulary.  Particularly words which others use but mean different things.

 

For example, I got sucked into an unfortunate argument with a woman and it wasn't until the latter end when we both realized that our definition of the word creation or created was different.  Her idea of the creation of a person included the belief that a person's existence has a set beginning which happens when they are born on this earth.  Before our earthly incarnation to her we did not exist, just God did.  She had been asking about this idea of Satan and Christ being brothers - which to me is of little concern.  I believe in a pre-existence, and I believe that pre-existence includes myself and the woman I was talking with. It was a gigantic family of countless numbers of people, but in the framework of no pre-existence, and a trinitarian view of God, that Satan too existed before could be a very strange and frightening idea. 

 

Now sadly, I didn't get this and my sun-addled brain and momentary lack of spiritual help thanks to a regrettable fall into contention kept me from understanding this good woman.  (until later and then I was kicking myself)

 

In our Preach my Gospel missionary manual it talks about vocabulary and that ours is unique and needs explaining.  I generally assumed before that it meant stuff like all our acronyms and the things that get announced in Sacrament meeting during the business part.  Like this or that meeting, or this or that calling (even this word - generally worded as ministry in other churches).  But really, Faith can be different.  It can be different between LDS members.  Charity, priesthood, authority, baptism, prophet, evangelist, miracle, creation, salvation, scripture, revelation, angel, etc. can have totally different meanings between various Christian faiths.  Failing to realize this, as I have done too many times, can lead to confusion.

[NightSG]

A good example is that I've turned no one here until a Pentecostal LDS, nor has anyone convinced me to be an LDS Pentecostal.

 

So we're taking our time about it.  We'll get to you eventually.

 

By the way, have you seen the ceiling over an LDS baptismal font?  You should go take a good look at it.  

[prisonchaplain]

Yeah.

Interfaith conversations, like interpolitical conversations are not productive.  Seldom is any mind changed.  Frequently heated disagreements break out, fights if you will, hard feelings, unhappiness, etc.

Now if somebody has questions, maybe.

But certainly in politics the questions are frequently loaded.  And again unnecessary in that no one changes their mind.

dc

 

This post makes me sad.  If we've given up on each other, and so no value in conversing with one another--hey, living life together, apart from completely winning over our adversaries, then this truly is a lonely existence. 

[prisonchaplain]

So we're taking our time about it.  We'll get to you eventually.

 

By the way, have you seen the ceiling over an LDS baptismal font?  You should go take a good look at it.  

 

Er...uh...the only ceiling I've seen over an LDS baptismal font was the one inside the Langley BC temple...and...I think that one was used for the dead.   :::gulp!:::

Edited May 28, 2015 by prisonchaplain

[NightSG]

Er...uh...the only ceiling I've seen over an LDS baptismal font was the one inside the Langley BC temple...and...I think that one was used for the dead.   :::gulp!:::

 

Well, you can really only see it properly when the font is full, and you're standing right in the middle.  I'm sure someone will help you lean far enough back to get a good view.

[David13]

This post makes me sad.  If we've given up on each other, and so no value in conversing with one another--hey, living life together, apart from completely winning over our adversaries, then this truly is a lonely existence. 

Not really.

In fact, it widens your scope of friends, your riding (motorcycle) buddies, without any contention.

dc

[Guest]

Perhaps those were bad comparisons - how about a quality discussion between a liberal arts major and a STEM major?  Two STEM majors can have a more in-depth conversation with one another because they both understand STEM topics. 

 

Can you have a quality conversation with a Vegan about the choicest cuts of beef? 

 

The scriptures suggest "equally yoked" as being a good companionship I think because it is better suited for fostering "united in all things, of one heart, and one mind."

 

Would one who truly seeks a qualitiy discussion logically or thoughtfully choose a topic such as cuts of beef with an interlocutor who one knows is Vegan?  To what end?  But if a Vegan and a  non-Vegan mutually seek to learn from one another (with the acceptance that whenever one truly learns, one is changed) then a quality discussion is both possible but also something to seek.

 

The scriptural suggestion about being equally yoked wasn't intended to be used in an argument about argumentation itself.

[pkstpaul]

Er...uh...the only ceiling I've seen over an LDS baptismal font was the one inside the Langley BC temple...and...I think that one was used for the dead.   :::gulp!:::

There aren't any dead folks in the temple. Not physically anyway. For the record, I can't say what is unique about the ceiling over the font and I've been in the font.

[Guest]

The more things in common you can find, the more there is to talk about.

 

I think we are talking past one another.  Certainly you and I can't talk long about a subject that only one of us understands (such as in your example with the Japanese language).  And of course, we can talk longer about something we both enjoy like a hobby, etc. than we can about Japanese.  But I don't think of the quality I'm talking about as the same kind of quality I perceive you are talking about.  If I did, I suppose I would never have bothered discussing it with you at all except to post "ditto" or something.  Personally, it's when we disagree that I find we have more to talk about than when we agree.  

Edited May 29, 2015 by UT.starscoper

[mrmarklin]

I'll tell you why dialogue is so rare.

I just passed a sign driving up to my house in the country that said:

Honoring the Sabbath on Saturday is the mark of the beast.

A stab at Seventh Day Adventists? Jews? Muslims?

How is it even possible to talk to a person with an attitude like that?

[The Folk Prophet]

There's a billboard in Orem or Provo (can't remember for sure) along I-15 that reads something like.

 

THE BIBLE. INSPIRED. AUTHORITATIVE. FINAL.

 

And when saw it the first time in good ol' happy Utah Valley, I couldn't help but think to myself: "Know your audience, people."

[Traveler]

I'll tell you why dialogue is so rare.

I just passed a sign driving up to my house in the country that said:

Honoring the Sabbath on Saturday is the mark of the beast.

A stab at Seventh Day Adventists? Jews? Muslims?

How is it even possible to talk to a person with an attitude like that?

 

The sign cannot be a reference to Muslims - they gather for what we call Sabbath worship - on Friday.  Obviously there are more than this to make the statement a "False" prophesy.

[prisonchaplain]

I'll tell you why dialogue is so rare.

I just passed a sign driving up to my house in the country that said:

Honoring the Sabbath on Saturday is the mark of the beast.

A stab at Seventh Day Adventists? Jews? Muslims?

How is it even possible to talk to a person with an attitude like that?

 

I get that there are some people who want to speechify, and have no interest in dialogue.  But, really, are they that common?  A majority?  Or, are they the foolish few that the media love to interview whenever a social issue arises?

[Crypto]

I get that there are some people who want to speechify, and have no interest in dialogue.  But, really, are they that common?  A majority?  Or, are they the foolish few that the media love to interview whenever a social issue arises?

I generally find people are not interested in speaking about religion. Even if they say they are religious themselves. Otherwise I find the dialogue of good quality normally.

I personally also tend to stay away from discussing deeper matters until i'm comfortable with the people. I lurked on this site for a couple years before actually making an account. Same thing happens in person.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Crypto

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

When I read this article (loved it), naturally I thought of this thread:

 

A Muslim, a Hindu and a Mormon sit down together on a plane.  It sounds like the beginning of a bad religious joke, but this is what happened to me recently on a flight from Minneapolis to Atlanta.

 

The next three hours included some of the best discussion of my life. The Hindu, a college freshman in Iowa, was headed home to Georgia for the summer. The Muslim, an immigrant from Sudan, was on his way to take a test for medical residency. Both men are on track to become U.S. citizens this summer.

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865629040/One-flight-three-faiths.html?pg=all#WPXvceO34OBJGEI2.01

 

I would really enjoy some interfaith dialogue with a Jewish person, or a Muslim or Hindu....how does one go about finding such opportunities I wonder?  

 

On this topic, a book comes to my mind.  It is written by a Jewish woman who converted to Christianity.  While she loves Christianity and has no intentions of turning away from it, she misses some things about being Jewish.  She discusses them in her book, Mudhouse Sabbath by Lauren F. Winner.  It is a book that has stayed with me (in a delightful way) long after reading it.  

Just now, checking her name, I realize she has written several books.  I will definitely check those out.

Edited May 31, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[askandanswer]

To press my question a bit, how about discussion of doctrine amongst LDS members?  Do we also find it hard to have such discussions within our household of faith?

 

Its the fairly frequent opportunities to participate in discussions of this nature that make the Gospel Doctrine Sunday School class the favourite part of my Sunday church meetings. In my experience, the only difficulty in having good doctrinal discussions amongst church members during Sunday meetings is not a lack of willingness or any discomfort, but a regrettable lack of well informed viewpoints and a sometimes disappointingly shallow understanding of doctrine. Fortunately, in my ward, we also have many members with a great depth of gospel knowledge from whom I often learn.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

PC, you have inspired me!  I was thinking, yeah I want more interfaith dialogue. Specifically I would like to talk to Jewish people, Muslims, and Hindu people...because I've never really had an opportunity to dialogue people of those faiths.    But where to find them I wondered.

 

Then it hit me!  I can follow your example.  Here you are a beloved member of an LDS forum even though you are not LDS.  So I did a search and found a Jewish forum that welcomes people who want to learn about Judism.  I haven't spent a lot of time there yet, but it looks active, and I look forward to making some new friends.  In fact, I'm heading over there right now.  :)