Boy scout executive committee approves gay scout leaders

[RMGuy]

Apparently the vote was unanimous.  It now needs to go for a vote to the executive council at the end of July.  Individual units would still be able to follow their beliefs in allowing or disallowing these leaders however camps and regional organizations cannot discriminate against gay leaders that were permitted by their individual units, ie your scouts could encounter gay leaders at camp if this passes.  This is the only link I have read on this so far, so I am sure there are other points of view. 

 

https://www.scoutsforequality.org/scouting/boy-scouts-of-americas-executive-committee-unanimously-approves-end-to-ban-on-gay-adults/

[Just_A_Guy]

The LDS Church has released a statement basically saying their main concern is preserving autonomy of local units to choose their own leaders.

 

That may buy us breathing room in the short term; but over the long haul--we've seen this story before.  In spite of a national policy giving autonomy to local units, BSA was sued in 1974 because one of its troops (a Mormon troop, in point of fact) refused to allow black kids to serve as senior patrol leaders (LDS policy at that time said the SPL should be the deacon's quorum president, which excluded blacks because of the priesthood ban).  BSA was able to settle the case because the LDS Church changed its policy, and there were no other units left that used any sort of race-based discrimination.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[RMGuy]

Thanks JAG, I hadn't seen that release yet.  I also didn't know the information about the 1974 case either. 

[Guest]

I'm glad our ward has their own awesome camps and activities and never uses the BSA-owned camps.

[Average Joe]

The LDS Church has released a statement basically saying their main concern is preserving autonomy of local units to choose their own leaders.

 

That may buy us breathing room in the short term; but over the long haul--we've seen this story before.  

 

Long term this will not end well.

[skippy740]

I'm glad our ward has their own awesome camps and activities and never uses the BSA-owned camps.

 

 

Long term this will not end well.

 

First, Youth Protection and Two-Deep Leadership standards are to help protect youth (and adult leaders from unfounded accusations)... if that's your main concern.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx

 

Second, religious organizations, by our very nature, are discriminating organizations... as long as such discrimination is based on a moral and ethical code of conduct.  I don't see where the long-term problem will be... as long as religious organizations (chartered organizations) are free to choose the scout leaders that embody and portray the chartering organization's principles.  Not all religious organizations choose to discriminate based on sexual orientation.  (We may believe that's for a 'filthy lucre', but that's our position and perspective.  Remember Article of Faith 11.)

 

Third, remember that SCHOOLS also charter scout packs and troops.  Schools cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation as religious organizations could.

 

Fourth, it could make for some interesting RoundTable meetings, as most are held at LDS church buildings since we don't charge for the use of the building.

[Just_A_Guy]

I just hate it when I'm right.  From the Salt Lake Tribune:

 

The BSA's deference to religious organizations was criticized by Chad Griffin, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a national LGBT-rights group.

 

"Half measures are unacceptable and discriminatory exemptions have no place in the Boy Scouts," Griffin said in a statement. "It's long overdue that BSA leaders demonstrate true leadership and embrace a full national policy of inclusion."

[Backroads]

Sounds like Griffin likes micromanagement.

Personally, I like the policy in and of itself, coming from the perspective each chartered organization has the right to make reasonable choices for their individual needs.

I'm not in favor of some policy maker checking uo to make sure each unit has x number of gay leaders.

[Average Joe]

... if that's your main concern.

 

I can see the church having its own program and severing ties with BSA because its on now, an across the board agenda push with "civil rights" to back it - regardless of our religious and moral beliefs.

[bytor2112]

Too bad the church and other major supporters didn't abandon the BSA sooner....maybe they would have gotten the message. 2.5% of the population claims to be homosexual....I wonder how small a number of homosexuals want to be involved in scouts? Homosexuals IMO are the most selfish, self centered people and sadly, the silent majority has allowed it all to happen, from ss marriage to this to......

Edited July 16, 2015 by bytor2112

[NeuroTypical]

Apparently the vote was unanimous.  It now needs to go for a vote to the executive council at the end of July. 

 

 

Interesting thing:  Noting that he has served on the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America for more than 40 years, President Monson says, “I believe in the power of Scouting to bless and enrich lives for good.”

 

How do you think our Prophet will vote?

[Guest MormonGator]

I was never a boy scout. In the immortal words of Groucho Marx, "I would never join a club that would have people like me as a member." I knew that even in childhood. 

[Windseeker]

I've recently became involved in Scouts, this time as a leader. I haven't been to a Scout camp since the eighties. I was shocked to see all these 14+ year old girls among all the boys. I guess they are Venture scouts.

 

When I took my son to his swimming merit badge class there were about 20 boys and 1 girl. The instructor spent the entire hour flirting and focusing on this girl while all around him in the pool all the boys were in various states of NOT doing the requirements.

 

I see this decision as having less an effect on LDS troops than young girls running around a Boy Scout camp. 

 

Source: I'm a hetrosexual

[Just_A_Guy]

Interesting thing:  Noting that he has served on the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America for more than 40 years, President Monson says, “I believe in the power of Scouting to bless and enrich lives for good.”

 

How do you think our Prophet will vote?

 

I think if Pres. Monson or Elder Holland (also on the Exec Board) were going to rally a resistance, we'd have seen a more aggressive stance on the Church's newsroom website. 

 

My guess is that they'll quietly vote "no", but that as a church we stay in the BSA until the BSA tries to force LDS units to accept gay leaders or until President Monson passes away (whichever comes first).

[The Folk Prophet]

My guess is that they'll quietly vote "no", but that as a church we stay in the BSA until the BSA tries to force LDS units to accept gay leaders or until President Monson passes away (whichever comes first).

 

I suspect this is correct. Though I do wonder why.

Edited July 16, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[Windseeker]

I wonder if it's a combination of things 

 

1. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

2. Our command to be "In the World but Not of the World".

 

It seems to me our opposition ("not of") to the world does not reside in Church policies, investments or relationships with outside entities but in how we as members live our lives. 

 

“The responsibility of showing to the world that the gospel of Jesus Christ will solve its problems rests upon the men who make the claim" - President David O McKay

 

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by Windseeker

[The Folk Prophet]

 

I wonder if it's a combination of things 

 

1. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

2. Our command to be "In the World but Not of the World".

 

It seems to me our opposition ("not of") to the world does not reside in Church policies, investments or relationships with outside entities but in how we as members live our lives. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not following how either of these ideas have anything to do with which programs the church does and does not utilize. Switching from scouting to an internal church program doesn't in any way take away from point 1, nor would it have any relationship to point 2, as we would, both as a church and a people, still be fully capable of being both in and not of the world.

[Vort]

 

2. Our command to be "In the World but Not of the World".

 

A clarification:

We are commanded not to be of the world. We are not commanded to be in the world; that is simply the reality of our situation.

[Windseeker]

I'm not following how either of these ideas have anything to do with which programs the church does and does not utilize. Switching from scouting to an internal church program doesn't in any way take away from point 1, nor would it have any relationship to point 2, as we would, both as a church and a people, still be fully capable of being both in and not of the world.

 

I guess what I'm saying is the writing is on the wall and has been on the wall from the beginning. The war is within us and not with culture or government. Since when have we agreed with either? At some point we will be living in Gomorrah. 

 

Perhaps the decision to remain (so far) invested in Boy Scouts is that we can still be some kind of example. That is the part of the reason we are to be in the World. 

[Guest MormonGator]

Isn't there a Boy Scout like group that doesn't allow open homosexuals to serve as scout leaders? I think I've heard of it before. 

 

Asking out of ignorance, nothing more. 

[Just_A_Guy]

Isn't there a Boy Scout like group that doesn't allow open homosexuals to serve as scout leaders? I think I've heard of it before. 

 

Asking out of ignorance, nothing more. 

 

Yeah, it's called Trail Life USA, which has fewer than 30,000 members at present.  By contrast, BSA has about 2.6 million plus another million or so adult volunteers; and the LDS Church provides something like 10% of the BSA's youth and adult membership (but, do to small unit size, something like 17% of the chartered troops and packs)

 

Trail Life USA also requires adult leaders to sign off on a statement of faith affirming belief in a "triune" God.  Even if the Church decided it was OK agreeing to such a theologically loaded statement, I suspect that TLUSA would not welcome the addition of three hundred thousand Mormons into their ranks.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

Yeah, it's called Trail Life USA, which has fewer than 30,000 members at present.  By contrast, BSA has about 2.6 million plus another million or so adult volunteers; and the LDS Church provides something like 10% of the BSA's youth and adult membership.

 

Trail Life USA also requires adult leaders to sign off on a "statement of faith" affirming belief in a "triune" God.  Even if the Church decided it was OK agreeing to such a loaded statement, I suspect that TLUSA would not welcome the addition of three hundred thousand Mormons into their ranks.

 Thank you my friend. I know nothing about the Boy Scouts or Trail Life USA. I even forget where I heard about the Boy Scouts alternative, but I agree totally. I don't think they'd welcome us with outstretched arms. 

 

A big reason I don't pay attention to the boy scout news is that I don't have kids of my own. I'm sure if I had a son I'd keep up with changes. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

One other interesting thing about TSUSA is that they claim over 40% of their members had no prior affiliation with the BSA.  (Source)

[Guest MormonGator]

I gotta be honest. My idea of being outdoors is sitting on a beach in the tropics with my Kindle, reading Russian literature. The thought of me going into the woods and attempting to do anything more complicated than unrolling a sleeping bag is terrifying! 

 

[Just_A_Guy]

So, I found online the text of the actual resolution, which contains this fascinating tidbit:

 

The Boy Scouts of America will defend and indemnify to the fullest extent allowed by law any bona fide religious chartered organization against any claim or action contending that the chartered organization's good faith refusal to select a unit leader based upon the religious principles of the chartered organization is in violation of the law.

 

If we're goin' down, it looks like we'll go down in flames.  :)

 

On the other hand--there's this jewel from the Questions and Answers section:

 

Will parents, youth members, or adult volunteer leaders be informed if a leader in their unit is gay?

 

The BSA has a code of conduct that prohibits the discussion of sexual issues.  Scouts will be directed to their religious leaders or parents to seek guidance on these matters.  Leaders who violate the code of conduct by discussing these issues can be removed from Scouting.

 

In other words:  It is none of your business if your seventeen-year-old is going camping with an adult who has the hots for him.  Know your place, peasants!

Edited July 17, 2015 by Just_A_Guy