Maureen Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) On a different thread a poster made a comment suggesting that the health benefits of moderate alcohol consumption is a myth. I know this is an LDS forum and LDS abstain from alcohol consumption but I'm creating this thread to provide sources that show that moderate alcohol consumption does have benefits. Here are some articles that are very informative. http://www.livestrong.com/article/557658-5-hidden-health-benefits-of-alcohol/ http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-story/ http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/292179.php M. ETA: I did not create this thread to convince posters that they should start drinking alcohol. I created it due to the comments made on the "is being overweight a sin" thread. Edited March 10, 2016 by Maureen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, Maureen said: I know this is an LDS forum and LDS abstain from alcohol consumption Since you're avoiding the question in the OTHER thread where you're arguing about this, I guess I'll ask it here: what's the point of giving this to LDS people who theologically don't believe in alcohol consumption? Is it because you care whether we think you ought to drink or not? I don't care if you drink. Even if I did, why would you care whether I care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Basically, grape juice has many of the same benefits as wine; the purer it is, the better. As such, this is rather a moot point for us. LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I grow concord grapes that make the best juice. Hoping for a good harvest this year, as all our fruit was wiped out last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 16 minutes ago, Eowyn said: Since you're avoiding the question in the OTHER thread where you're arguing about this, I guess I'll ask it here: what's the point of giving this to LDS people who theologically don't believe in alcohol consumption? Is it because you care whether we think you ought to drink or not? I don't care if you drink. Even if I did, why would you care whether I care? It's not like this subject has never been discussed on these forums before. I've answered your questions the best I can, maybe you just don't like my answers. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I guess I have bad reading comprehension, because I haven't seen any answers except, essentially, "Because you're wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Eowyn said: I guess I have bad reading comprehension, because I haven't seen any answers except, essentially, "Because you're wrong." Have you bothered to read the articles linked on this thread? If not and you're not interested in this thread, then why are you here Eowyn? M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 The articles are irrelevant. You're not trying to hear what I am saying. You are being obtuse. We are at an impasse. Carry on, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 29 minutes ago, Eowyn said: The articles are irrelevant. You're not trying to hear what I am saying. You are being obtuse. We are at an impasse. Carry on, I guess. How are the articles not relevant to this thread? And how are your comments relevant to this thread? M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojo Bags Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Wine is good for vinegar. Love that red wine vinegar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/resveratrol.html You're not really addressing the real points here. The articles, while technically true, are misleading, give false impressions, and mischaracterize what is really going on. Edited March 10, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 8 hours ago, Maureen said: How are the articles not relevant to this thread? And how are your comments relevant to this thread? M. The articles might be relevant to the thread. They are not relevant to the question you've been asked...which is...what's the point of the thread -- what's you're objective here? LDS people don't generally give a hoot if alcohol has health benefits or not. Nor do we care if non-LDS people engage is it's usage -- at least not beyond the desire to convert. Vort and NeedleinA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I think that the point of the thread is that we as LDS demonize alcohol usage. We shouldn't as a general rule because it is not all bad. 10 hours ago, Eowyn said: What's the point of giving this to LDS people who theologically don't believe in alcohol consumption? Do we theologically not believe in alcohol consumption? David13 and MrShorty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 The problem with studies like that is people read them and conclude that the alcohol itself is the component of the beverages that provides the benefits. This has been shown to be false, per the grape juice comment above. That really makes the rest of the argument moot. If it were the alcohol, then one would expect *any* alcoholic beverage to demonstrate some of the same properties. And even if they DID, what's the point? That we know better than Heavenly Father? Is that the point being made here? And if you don't believe in the Word of Wisdom as a commandment from God, then what's the point arguing it here? Validation? Bragging rights? "I'm such an awesome forum debater that I convinced a few Mormons that drinking wine ain't so bad. Go me!" NeedleinA and LeSellers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 If something is in canonized scripture, and is held as a requirement for temple worthiness, is it part of our theological beliefs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said: we as LDS demonize alcohol usage. I'll admit, my picket sign "Booze iz fo Fooze" has cobwebs on it, time to get it out and use it more often. 1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said: because it is not all bad. Ah, the new slogan for delicious "Turd Cakes". Sure, it is all made from turds but there is a super healthy vitamin pack in the middle. Just having a little fun Edited March 10, 2016 by NeedleinA Vort and LeSellers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Do we theologically not believe in alcohol consumption? 27 minutes ago, Eowyn said: If something is in canonized scripture, and is held as a requirement for temple worthiness, is it part of our theological beliefs? This is a semantic issue. It depends on your meaning behind "theological". I believe that it is certainly part of our practices and what we believe God expects of us. But in common language it is difficult to relate to other faiths. For them, there is no difference between what God expects of "His people" vs what he expects of everyone. For us, there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, Eowyn said: If something is in canonized scripture, and is held as a requirement for temple worthiness, is it part of our theological beliefs? It is... However sometimes we muddy the water a bit. It is clear that a faithful member of the LDS church there is no good reason to drink alcohol. Nothing in moderation can out weight the penalties of disobedience to God. However in our zeal to encourage everyone to obey we can sometimes step over the line into untruths. Like calling it evil Christ did no evil... Christ drank wine. He even provided wine at marriage. It seems that many Biblical and Book of Mormon Prophets drank wine. Maybe it was because they didn't have better alternatives, and now it is possible to do so. Or maybe the Word of Wisdom's warning of "Conspiring Men" gives us a different danger that didn't exist before and will end at some point in the future. If so then at some future point the Word of Wisdom might no longer be needed according to the wisdom of God. David13, MrShorty and Maureen 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 36 minutes ago, Eowyn said: If something is in canonized scripture, D&C 89:2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days. 36 minutes ago, Eowyn said: and is held as a requirement for temple worthiness. This is a "current" requirement for temple worthiness I said it in the other thread and I will say it again, the WoW as we practice it is a matter of policy (for the general body of the church) and covenant made by members who enter the temple. David13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I can't speak to the benefits of wine, but I can tell you that there are a multitude of health benefits from drinking unfiltered beer, and a lot of those benefits come from the yeast. Alcohol is a by-product of fermentation by yeast. So the alcohol itself isn't beneficial, but the thing creating it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 20 minutes ago, Godless said: I can't speak to the benefits of wine, but I can tell you that there are a multitude of health benefits from drinking unfiltered beer, Awesome! Health benefits means it can't be bad And this one had morphine: Source NeedleinA and LeSellers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 40 minutes ago, estradling75 said: It is... However sometimes we muddy the water a bit. It is clear that a faithful member of the LDS church there is no good reason to drink alcohol. Nothing in moderation can out weight the penalties of disobedience to God. However in our zeal to encourage everyone to obey we can sometimes step over the line into untruths. Like calling it evil Christ did no evil... Christ drank wine. He even provided wine at marriage. It seems that many Biblical and Book of Mormon Prophets drank wine. Maybe it was because they didn't have better alternatives, and now it is possible to do so. Or maybe the Word of Wisdom's warning of "Conspiring Men" gives us a different danger that didn't exist before and will end at some point in the future. If so then at some future point the Word of Wisdom might no longer be needed according to the wisdom of God. This is a great post. We know that Joseph himself drank tea, beer and sometimes smoked cigars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 19 hours ago, Maureen said: On a different thread a poster made a comment suggesting that the health benefits of moderate alcohol consumption is a myth. I know this is an LDS forum and LDS abstain from alcohol consumption but I'm creating this thread to provide sources that show that moderate alcohol consumption does have benefits. Here are some articles that are very informative. http://www.livestrong.com/article/557658-5-hidden-health-benefits-of-alcohol/ http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-story/ http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/292179.php M. ETA: I did not create this thread to convince posters that they should start drinking alcohol. I created it due to the comments made on the "is being overweight a sin" thread. I could probably find benefits to about anything if I looked hard enough. NeedleinA and Maureen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 21 hours ago, Maureen said: I'm creating this thread to provide sources that show that moderate alcohol consumption does have benefits. Here are some articles that are very informative. I read your articles. They convince me not a whit. Every "benefit" touted can be achieved otherwise, and it is not the alcohol the provides the benefits, but the other compounds in, say, the grape skins. Drinking the grape juice, or just eating the grapes would give the same (or better) result. Beer and wine have actual nutritional value, and, were it not for the alcohol, would be beneficial. But there is alcohol, and that limits or negates the value. That fine line they talk about (between one or two drinks and too many) is a very fine line indeed. I reiterate: alcohol is a poison. It destroys cells in every organ of the body with the first drink (see my post in the "other topic"). From cognition to estrogen, it does nothing good for you. Someone(s) brought up Christ and His drinking wine. I believe it to have been esterling who noted that there was no safer alternative; water in those days being polluted and dangerous. So, it's a balancing act: you choose the best option from what is before you. In today's world, alcohol is not that choice. Lehi NeedleinA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) It looks to me, from the sources in the OP, like most of the cited benefits have to do with alcohol's ability to increase HDL and lower LDL (from which cardiovascular benefits and lowered risk of Alzheimer's and kidney stones stem); and to help diabetics in metabolizing sugar. But the American Diabetes Association warns against taking alcohol if your glucose levels aren't well under control because alcohol can also induce hypoglycemia (source); and (per WebMD) the American Heart Association specifically discourages taking up drinking for the purpose of cardiovascular disease control, instead recommending the old standbys of diet and exercise and weight control. And, as the OP's own Harvard link indicates, alcohol consumption has been linked to various types of cancer (the article lists breast and colon cancer specifically, and additional types as alcohol consumption rates increase). During World War 2, the US government gave some of its soldiers Benzedrine--basically, an amphetimine. Our soldiers accomplished some great things with the help of these "uppers", including a spectacularly successful nighttime liberating raid on the Cabanatuan prison camp in the Philippines--but we'd never use the stuff today; because we take a more holistic view of our soldiers' health. Similarly, when we take the body as a whole rather than just looking at the one or two beneficial chemical reactions that moderate alcohol consumption triggers, I'm not at all convinced that alcohol consumption provides a net benefit or that it is essential to good health and long life. Edited March 11, 2016 by Just_A_Guy LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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