Struggling with LDS in laws

[ebie1995]

Brief overview, I am a convert of 2 years and happily married to my husband who was born into the church. We got married in January in England and made the incredibly hard decision not to get sealed on our wedding day (due to the detrimental impact it would have my family relationship). We were fully expecting to wait a year before getting sealed. However, when I took out my endowments in February the stake president asked me if we would be interested in getting sealed sooner and if it is something we would like him to look into. Of course we super excited at the prospect but understood nothing was guaranteed. Fast forward a few weeks ago we got the go ahead to get seal and have the day booked for the 7th of May. 

My husband is not close to his family and there are a lot of hurt feelings especially surrounding our wedding as they didn't want to help in any way (even just setting up the chapel) and left early from it because they had to "look after the dog". They show no interest in him or his schooling and the family love to insult him and put him down. We've also had issues with them wanting to sell his property without his permission. 

When we got the go ahead for the sealing we started to think about who we wanted there and decided that we didn't want his family there due to how distant we feel with them and so that neither set of parent gets to be treated differently. Instead we are hosting a meal after for family and friends to come and celebrate our sealing. When we told in laws (we had everyone over for easter) that we were getting sealed no one even smiled (it was like we had just said the world had ended) there wasn't even a congratulations (and this was before we said they weren't invited) I find out last night that BIL has been staring going on to MIL and keeps asking her is she upset, how do you feel (trying to provoke the situation). The family don't think its fair that an "exception" has been made for us and think we should have to wait. BIL and wife are jealous because her family are not members and they didn't get an "special provision", though we have tried to explain that it is a very different situation. 

We confronted BIL yesterday about his behaviour and other issues in the past that we have bottled up (he made up some lies about my DH having sex before we were married and spread them around the family). I've had a letter on my computer outlining what the MIL and FIL have done thats so hurtful over the past year and yesterday DH has hit the wall and said to send it, it hurts me seeing their behaviour be so destructive towards him.

We have been distancing ourselves for a while anyway in the hope that giving space may make things better. I am at a point where I am done, when Im around them or at their home I find it so hard to feel the spirit. For so long I've tried to turn the other cheek, and just stay quiet and not voice my hurt or distress but DH and I are at breaking point now. 

 I have said to DH that I think we need to be on the same page dealing with that and if his family want to speak to us they need to come visit us (which they never do even though were about 20 minutes away) as we've had previous family intervention at their house and 1. I have severe allergies and they have a lot of pets and its very dirty 2. if it is at our house we had discuss the issues on our terms as there is a tendency in the family to just blame everything on my DH. The only other thing of importance I've said is to not drag in other sibling (he has a sister and another brother) who are not involved and we have no major issues with (DS has a lot on at the moment as her husband is subject to criminal charges for rape and assault). I have said to DH I will never stop him seeing his family or having a relationship with then if that is what HE wants.

Beyond this I don't really know what do, every family has its disfunction but Ive never dealt with anything like this before, and don't really know how to help DH (who in this situation is my first priority). 

Any advice or guidance would be appreciated 

 

[NeedleinA]

3 hours ago, ebie1995 said:

YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND:
1. happily married 
2. we (are) super excited 

HIS FAMILY: 
1.  no interest in him 
2.  love to insult him and put him down.
3. sell his property without his permission.
4. BIL...provoke the situation) 
5. BIL... lies about my DH

Hi ebie- 

Sounds like you have a choice to make. My wife (convert) and I had to make a similar choice at one time too. We had to decide: Happiness without her family OR misery with her family. It was painful to be stuck in such a decision, but we made it, rather my wife made it and I supported her in it. We simply stepped away from her family, took a vacation from them. Visits/calls etc. all dried up for a while. It was incredible to watch my wife's happiness increase 10 fold. Whatever benefit she was receiving prior from her sisters was always overshadowed by their harm/jealousy/insults. Her letting go was a blessing to everyone, including them.

I love this quote: "Arguing with a fool proves there are two" 

Once we stopped dealing with them, our lives were much better off. Once they had no one to argue with, their foolishness began to go away too. They slowly began to realize that we weren't going to be around them unless it was a healthy happy environment. My wife chose "our" happiness over theirs. 

Your in-laws had "hurt feelings especially surrounding our wedding", now that it is working out for you, they are still upset. Seems you can't win either way. You have already tried being around them. I would try harder at "we have been distancing ourselves for a while anyway in the hope that giving space may make things better."

Toxic is not good for anyone. You can't change them and their behaviors, but you can change yourself. They get to decide what kind of LDS member they want to be, but don't let it define what kind of LDS member you are going to be. If they already lie/insult/no interest now, what is the worst they could do without you around... say more lies/insults/no interest?

I would give it a real try. Good luck!

p.s. Once others have given their advice/suggestions. Have your husband come read this thread with you, as it could be beneficial for him as well.

Edited April 19, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

I love this quote: "Arguing with a fool proves there are two" 

 

Is that why you don't argue politics with me Needle? Jerk. (Just playing, everyone)

OP-Everything Needle said was fantastic. You are in my prayers. 

[Guest]

I think that if you leave family out (especially the excited ones) over petty bickering now, you'll regret it later. I think I'd probably have felt the same way early in my marriage, but in hindsight I know I would have regretted it. 

At least invite your family. Let your husband decide if he wants to invite his, and then support him. If he does want to invite them, do it as if they're as excited as your family, and let it go. They might come, they might not, but you'll have behaved in a way you don't have to regret later. If he doesn't want to invite them, ignore what they're fussing about behind the scenes and enjoy the day with the people who want to be there.

Whatever you do, don't use your sealing day as a punishment for past behavior. 

[Jane_Doe]

Edie,

I for one, would like to say that I am excited for you sealing!

[Maureen]

18 hours ago, ebie1995 said:

Brief overview, I am a convert of 2 years and happily married to my husband who was born into the church. We got married in January in England and made the incredibly hard decision not to get sealed on our wedding day (due to the detrimental impact it would have my family relationship). We were fully expecting to wait a year before getting sealed. However, when I took out my endowments in February the stake president asked me if we would be interested in getting sealed sooner and if it is something we would like him to look into. Of course we super excited at the prospect but understood nothing was guaranteed. Fast forward a few weeks ago we got the go ahead to get seal and have the day booked for the 7th of May....

You and your husband were married in England. As far as I know civil wedding/sealing rules haven't changed in the UK. Marriage laws in England require that couples have a civil wedding before they can be sealed. There are no "waiting a year" restrictions for LDS members in the UK. Since you received your endowments after your wedding, it makes sense that you were not able to be sealed right away; but now that you are endowed it makes perfect sense that your SP would mention a sealing.

As to your husband's family - they seem a strange bunch. In the majority of marriages the rule is "you're not just marrying the person, you're marrying their family"; but I think in your case that rule should not apply, your in-laws are too dysfunctional and I think it would be more healthy to distance yourself from them for some time. Enjoy your sealing day with friends and family that are happy for you and wish you well.

M. 

[NeuroTypical]

On 4/19/2016 at 4:34 AM, ebie1995 said:

My husband is not close to his family

 I have said to DH that I think we need to be on the same page dealing with that and if his family want to speak to us they need to come visit us (which they never do

Any advice or guidance would be appreciated 

I don't get why there's a problem.  He's not close, they never come to visit.  So go with him if he wants to visit them, or don't.

[anatess2]

Here's my advice to you.  It's worth 2 pence...

1.)  You wouldn't have your husband if his parents didn't give birth to him.  So, at the very minimum, you will need to be eternally grateful for their decision to be parents to the love of your life.

2.)  Your husband is who he is to a great extent because of his family.  He grew up in that family, he knows that family very well, he's been dealing with that family all his life.  You're a newcomer.  There's loads of history there that is just simply beyond you - lots of ingrained, programmed responses that wouldn't make much sense unless you've known all these people all your life.

3.)  You may have married your husband and not his family... but his family is part of who he is... so.... yeah, you may not have intended to but you married the family too.  Therefore, it is imperative that you try to understand the family and the family dynamics and how you can navigate it without inserting yourself in the drama.  Understanding the family helps you understand your husband better.

That said....

When there are problems with the family, you, as his wife, do not want to make things worse.  It would even be best if you can make it better.  But at the least, you need to run on neutral with his family.  To do this, you will need to lend support to your husband without joining him in the family-bashing.  Any conflict resolution will be his to do.  Not yours.  Stay away from it as much as you can while supporting your husband.  Let him make the decisions on how to handle his family.. .let him handle his own family.  You handle yours.  Remember, he's been doing this all his life.  He's the one that knows best how to navigate these waters.

So, let's put this in real life application - in this thread, you've painted the in-laws in a very unfavorable light.  That's ok because we're strangers who will probably never meet you all.  But, you might want to not say all that with your husband or your circle of friends.  It's ok for him to say these things about his family... you can offer support and comfort to your husband without you yourself bashing his own family.  Your role is the bridge-maker - support him in healing... bashing is not healing.  Forgiving is healing.  Now, of course, this doesn't mean that you have to go and subject yourselves to abuse by his family... no.  Rather, be Christlike in your dealings with your husband's family while protecting your family from abuse.  So, about the sealing... so what if the in-laws are jealous?  That's their problem.  It doesn't have to be yours.  The decision to invite them or not should rest 100% with your husband.  You can give him advice... but the decision rests on his shoulders.  Likewise, your side of the family is your decision.

Hope this helps.

Edited April 20, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest]

On 4/20/2016 at 0:19 AM, Maureen said:

Marriage laws in England require that couples have a civil wedding before they can be sealed. There are no "waiting a year" restrictions for LDS members in the UK.

M.

The year waiting period isn't a restriction by laws of the land.  It is a Church requirement.  And endowments are often done the same day as sealing.

[pam]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

M.

The year waiting period isn't a restriction by laws of the land.  It is a Church requirement.  And endowments are often done the same day as sealing.

But there is no church requirement of the year in countries that mandate that a civil ceremony must take place before hand. Such as in the case that Maureen cited.  She is correct on this.

[Guest]

Then what was the stake president talking about?

There are some conditions, yes.  The country has to recognize the temple marriage as a legally binding one, etc.  And the date of baptism, etc.

But what was the stake president talking about?

Edited April 22, 2016 by Guest

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, pam said:

But there is no church requirement of the year in countries that mandate that a civil ceremony must take place before hand. Such as in the case that Maureen cited.  She is correct on this.

Things may have changed, but that year restriction was part of the program in those cases where the civil marriage was not followed by a sealing within a "reasonable" time. When I served in France, there were two Temples in Europe, one in Switzerland and one in England. So, it was not uncommon for a couple to marry in Toulouse, France, and then go immediately to Zollikofen  for a sealing one or two days later. But it was also common for the marriage to happen and the sealing to follow six months later. That was reasonable.

With so many Temples now, I wonder if the rules have changed to recognize that it's not nearly as difficult as it was to go to the Temple fairly soon following that civil ritual.

Lehi

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

Things may have changed, but that year restriction was part of the program in those cases where the civil marriage was not followed by a sealing within a "reasonable" time. When I served in France, there were two Temples in Europe, one in Switzerland and one in England. So, it was not uncommon for a couple to marry in Toulouse, France, and then go immediately to Zollikofen  for a sealing one or two days later. But it was also common for the marriage to happen and the sealing to follow six months later. That was reasonable.

With so many Temples now, I wonder if the rules have changed to recognize that it's not nearly as difficult as it was to go to the Temple fairly soon following that civil ritual.

Lehi

In the Philippines, it hasn't changed.  A civil wedding in one's city/town hall can be followed by a sealing in the near future depending on the town's proximity to a Temple.  I think it's up to the individual bishop/stake president's judgment there.  Temple weddings in the Philippines are legally binding but because of the impoverished conditions of a lot of Filipinos, it takes them a while to save up for a temple trip that for most Filipinos require a cost-prohibitive boat ride or two.  Sometimes, a couple gets civilly wed thinking it will take them more than a year to save up for a temple trip and then good tidings come along that makes them ready to go sooner.

Edited April 22, 2016 by anatess2

[Maureen]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

...And endowments are often done the same day as sealing.

I don't think that's true. If either the groom or bride has not received their endowment before they're sealed; it's usually recommended to them they receive their endowment before the wedding day. Many posters on this forum have recommended just that.

M.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, Maureen said:

I don't think that's true. If either the groom or bride has not received their endowment before they're sealed; it's usually recommended to them they receive their endowment before the wedding day. Many posters on this forum have recommended just that.

M.

I think it's the better way to go, but when Just_A_Girl and I were married in 2003 she was heavily pressured to delay the endowment until the morning of our sealing; and it took a lot of persuasive talking for her to get her bishop to agree to let it get done a week ahead of time.

Certainly things may have changed in the intervening 13 years.  But some of us on the board are just old fogies. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Maureen said:

I don't think that's true. If either the groom or bride has not received their endowment before they're sealed; it's usually recommended to them they receive their endowment before the wedding day. Many posters on this forum have recommended just that.

M.

Of 16 sealings that I've been a part of, in 15 of them, the brides received their endowments the same day.  The one who did not was the exception in that she tried to schedule it on the same day, but logistics prevented it.

Years ago they did indeed have a common practice (not necessarily policy) to have the endowment some time before the sealing.  But they began encouraging (again not policy) the endowments to be done as close to the sealing as possible.  The rumor at the time was that too many weddings didn't happen (both cold feet and last minute violation of the LoC were commonly blamed) and the bride to be was now a single endowed person who never went on a mission.  At the time, that was not the custom.

[Maureen]

My LDS friend was married in 1979 and she received her endowments before her sealing/wedding day. My nephew was married 2 years ago and his wife, who is a convert, received her endowments 3 days before the sealing. From what I've observed, most sealings now only involve the sealing; a full endowment session is not necessary to go through when a couple is being sealed. 

M.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Maureen

[Guest]

3 vs 15.  Advantage: Same day.

[Maureen]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

3 vs 15.  Advantage: Same day.

Maybe someone should create a poll. ?

M.

[letmeoff]

On 19/04/2016 at 8:34 PM, ebie1995 said:

Brief overview, I am a convert of 2 years and happily married to my husband who was born into the church. We got married in January in England and made the incredibly hard decision not to get sealed on our wedding day (due to the detrimental impact it would have my family relationship). We were fully expecting to wait a year before getting sealed. However, when I took out my endowments in February the stake president asked me if we would be interested in getting sealed sooner and if it is something we would like him to look into. Of course we super excited at the prospect but understood nothing was guaranteed. Fast forward a few weeks ago we got the go ahead to get seal and have the day booked for the 7th of May. 

My husband is not close to his family and there are a lot of hurt feelings especially surrounding our wedding as they didn't want to help in any way (even just setting up the chapel) and left early from it because they had to "look after the dog". They show no interest in him or his schooling and the family love to insult him and put him down. We've also had issues with them wanting to sell his property without his permission. 

When we got the go ahead for the sealing we started to think about who we wanted there and decided that we didn't want his family there due to how distant we feel with them and so that neither set of parent gets to be treated differently. Instead we are hosting a meal after for family and friends to come and celebrate our sealing. When we told in laws (we had everyone over for easter) that we were getting sealed no one even smiled (it was like we had just said the world had ended) there wasn't even a congratulations (and this was before we said they weren't invited) I find out last night that BIL has been staring going on to MIL and keeps asking her is she upset, how do you feel (trying to provoke the situation). The family don't think its fair that an "exception" has been made for us and think we should have to wait. BIL and wife are jealous because her family are not members and they didn't get an "special provision", though we have tried to explain that it is a very different situation. 

We confronted BIL yesterday about his behaviour and other issues in the past that we have bottled up (he made up some lies about my DH having sex before we were married and spread them around the family). I've had a letter on my computer outlining what the MIL and FIL have done thats so hurtful over the past year and yesterday DH has hit the wall and said to send it, it hurts me seeing their behaviour be so destructive towards him.

We have been distancing ourselves for a while anyway in the hope that giving space may make things better. I am at a point where I am done, when Im around them or at their home I find it so hard to feel the spirit. For so long I've tried to turn the other cheek, and just stay quiet and not voice my hurt or distress but DH and I are at breaking point now. 

 I have said to DH that I think we need to be on the same page dealing with that and if his family want to speak to us they need to come visit us (which they never do even though were about 20 minutes away) as we've had previous family intervention at their house and 1. I have severe allergies and they have a lot of pets and its very dirty 2. if it is at our house we had discuss the issues on our terms as there is a tendency in the family to just blame everything on my DH. The only other thing of importance I've said is to not drag in other sibling (he has a sister and another brother) who are not involved and we have no major issues with (DS has a lot on at the moment as her husband is subject to criminal charges for rape and assault). I have said to DH I will never stop him seeing his family or having a relationship with then if that is what HE wants.

Beyond this I don't really know what do, every family has its disfunction but Ive never dealt with anything like this before, and don't really know how to help DH (who in this situation is my first priority). 

Any advice or guidance would be appreciated 

 

Go see a therapist.

[zil]

7 hours ago, Maureen said:

Maybe someone should create a poll. ?

M.

If only we had access to the database - we could just run some queries:

SELECT COUNT(MemberId) AS DifferentDay
FROM OrdinanceRecords
WHERE EndowmentDate != SealingToSpouseDate

SELECT COUNT(MemberId) AS SameDay
FROM OrdinanceRecords
WHERE EndowmentDate = SealingToSpouseDate

[LeSellers]

5 hours ago, letmeoff said:

Go see a therapist.

This is a question that only a Latter-day Saints could respond to in any meaningful way. Yours is harsh and irrelevant, not to mention biased.

I rarely discourage discourse, but in this case, may I suggest you not participate?

Lehi

[letmeoff]

13 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

This is a question that only a Latter-day Saints could respond to in any meaningful way. Yours is harsh and irrelevant, not to mention biased.

I rarely discourage discourse, but in this case, may I suggest you not participate?

Lehi

Well a therapist would help with such complex emotional issues, that's what they're there for. I've seen them and I'm a member of the latter day saints, doesn't bother me one little bit.

 

[LeSellers]

Just now, letmeoff said:

Well a therapist would help with such complex emotional issues, that's what they're there for. I've seen them and I'm a member of the latter day saints, doesn't bother me one little bit.

You claim to me "a member of the latter day saints [sic]" but list your religion as "biotheist" (trans: my god is life). You disparage fighting for marriage in a different topic.

Pardon me if I find your protestations to the contrary worth very little.

Lehi

[letmeoff]

5 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

You claim to me "a member of the latter day saints [sic]" but list your religion as "biotheist" (trans: my god is life). You disparage fighting for marriage in a different topic.

Pardon me if I find your protestations to the contrary worth very little.

Lehi

You don't know what a biotheist is, so don't assume you do.