To lead the best, most meaningful life, one must belong to the one, fundamentally true religion.

[omegaseamaster75]

To lead the best, most meaningful life, one must belong to the one, fundamentally true religion.

This question was on the survey posted. I am curious about answers that people gave. I have my thoughts about the subject but would like to hear from others.

[Guest]

Well... the question wasn't, "Can people live a wonderful, meaningful life without the one, fundamentally true religion". If that was the question, my answer would be, "Of course". 

But the best, most meaningful life does come from having the fullness of the Gospel, and from making and keeping covenants to work toward Eternal life. I don't know why that should be a problematic statement to a believing LDS person.

[Traveler]

 

Happiness comes from the quest to experiment with living the principles of the gospel as you discover them to validate them to be true – not so much in thinking you have found it and if necessary make what-ever excuses for it that you must.  This way when you discover new principles of truth – it not so hard to convince yourself to change to live accordingly new truths.  Jesus promises that those that seek and ask with sincere purpose will find him.  As I have observed life and those here in mortality – I am convinced that we do indeed find what we are looking for.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

Some humans do not have the opportunity to hear about the one fundamentally true religion.  To say they are incapable of living the best, most meaningful life possible, well, just sounds presumptuous and unrighteously judgmental.

I forget how I answered, but I didn't give a "strongly agree".

Edited August 25, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[Guest]

Is it the best, most meaningful life they can, or the best, most meaningful life possible?

[Connie]

My thoughts on that one were more along the lines of the individual—that it’s a very individual thing. We’ve all been sent here to Earth with an individual mission or purpose to fulfill. And I think people, in general, tend to do the best they can with the circumstances, opportunities and knowledge they have. It’s above my paygrade to decide that someone has lived their own individual absolute most meaningful life possible, with or without the restored gospel. That’s between them and God.

[tesuji]

5 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

To lead the best, most meaningful life, one must belong to the one, fundamentally true religion.

This statement is pretty impossible to defend from the Mormon perspective, in my opinion.

We Mormons believe we have the essentials for salvation that are mostly lacking in other churches.  We believe you must be baptized by real priesthood authority for example, to be saved. And then must follow the gospel of Jesus.

It is our duty to preach the gospel we have received, to share the blessings with those who will except them.

However, everyone in and outside of the church are on their own paths.  That's between them and God. I'm happy to leave it that way.

I am also certain that many Mormons are living less meaningful lives that they could, and that many non Mormons are living in ways that please God more than I am, despite my best effort.

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by tesuji

[LiveTheGospel]

22 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

To lead the best, most meaningful life, one must belong to the one, fundamentally true religion.

I say "absolutely!" to that.  But we must remember that religion extends beyond this life.  Those who could not or would not accept the Gospel will be given the chance to accept it in the next life.

[omegaseamaster75]

2 hours ago, LiveTheGospel said:

I say "absolutely!" to that.  But we must remember that religion extends beyond this life.  Those who could not or would not accept the Gospel will be given the chance to accept it in the next life.

Except I think that the question was discussion our mortal life not the eternities

[prisonchaplain]

I'm very simple-minded on this one.  There is no good meaning to mortal life if one ends up in hell.  So, I'm guessing most in the traditional Christian communities, with our binary understanding of what comes next, would answer in the affirmative.  As a personal example, I work with some fantastic psychologists.  They have studied hard and well, and have earned for themselves vocations in which they help people journey through life, every day.  And yet, whenever questions of eternity and "higher powers" comes up, they will refer to my department.  There is great temporal meaning in what they do.  They demonstrate high levels of personal satisfaction and "self-actualization."  BUT ...  and this is the offense of our faith.  This is why people accuse us of being arrogant, selfish, condescending and judgmental.  AND, there really is no solution. 

[Guest]

On 8/25/2016 at 7:43 PM, tesuji said:

This statement is pretty impossible to defend from the Mormon perspective, in my opinion.

We Mormons believe we have the essentials for salvation that are mostly lacking in other churches.  We believe you must be baptized by real priesthood authority for example, to be saved. And then must follow the gospel of Jesus.

It is our duty to preach the gospel we have received, to share the blessings with those who will except them.

However, everyone in and outside of the church are on their own paths.  That's between them and God. I'm happy to leave it that way.

I am also certain that many Mormons are living less meaningful lives that they could, and that many non Mormons are living in ways that please God more than I am, despite my best effort.

 

Impossible to defend?  I'd say the "only" meaningful life comes from following the Lord.  Anything else drums up Shakespeare's famous line

Quote

Life is a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

Atheists know this.  Only Eternal Life actually gives any life real meaning. 

Then we need only extrapolate that idea to its logical conclusion.  The "most" meaningful life then comes from working towards the Eternal Life of all mankind.  Anything else is just wasted time and has no real meaning at all.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Guest

[tesuji]

10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Impossible to defend?  I'd say the "only" meaningful life comes from following the Lord.  Anything else drums up Shakespeare's famous line

Atheists know this.  Only Eternal Life actually gives any life real meaning. 

Then we need only extrapolate that idea to its logical conclusion.  The "most" meaningful life then comes from working towards the Eternal Life of all mankind.  Anything else is just wasted time and has no real meaning at all.

 

I get your point. 

The quote is "To lead the best, most meaningful life, one must belong to the one, fundamentally true religion." I was trying to make the point that someone does not have to be a Mormon to live the best, most meaningful life - at this exact point in their life. 

Ideally, theoretically, ultimately, yes, everyone would be Mormon. We have the priesthood authority, the saving ordinances, a real modern prophet. Only by marriage (or later sealing) in the temple do you have the potential opportunity to reach the Celestial Kingdom, the highest blessing God has to give.

However, I think Ghandi and Mother Teresa, for example, did more good because they were part of their own cultures. People listened to them more than they would if they had been Mormons, or if Ghandi had been a guy in Utah who was a Mormon prophet.

God has his plan and timeline for all of us, and people are at different places at this point in their lives.

And there are plenty of non-Mormons who are better people than I am. I look at it like, "thank God I'm Mormon - maybe I can learn to catch up to them."

So, yes, we pray that everyone will hear and accept the gospel and church of Christ, re-established in modern times through Joseph Smith in the 1800s, the first modern prophet of God.

But what I don't like about the quote is that it can easily be construed by a Mormon to mean "I'm Mormon and that makes me better than everyone else." No way. The Book of Mormon illustrates how wrong that thinking is, with the story of the Zoramites:

 

Quote

 12 Now, when they had come into the land, behold, to their astonishment they found that the Zoramites had built synagogues, and that they did gather themselves together on one day of the week, which day they did call the day of the Lord; and they did worship after a manner which Alma and his brethren had never beheld;

 13 For they had a place built up in the center of their synagogue, a place for standing, which was high above the head; and the top thereof would only admit one person.

 14 Therefore, whosoever desired to worship must go forth and stand upon the top thereof, and stretch forth his hands towards heaven, and cry with a loud voice, saying:

 15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.

 16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hastelected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that there shall be no Christ.

 17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God.

 18 And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

 19 Now it came to pass that after Alma and his brethren and his sons had heard these prayers, they were astonished beyond all measure.

 20 For behold, every man did go forth and offer up these same prayers.

 21 Now the place was called by them Rameumptom, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand.

 22 Now, from this stand they did offer up, every man, the selfsame prayer unto God, thanking their God that they were chosen of him, and that he did not lead them away after the tradition of their brethren, and that their hearts were not stolen away to believe in things to come, which they knew nothing about.

 23 Now, after the people had all offered up thanks after this manner, they returned to their homes, never speaking of their God again until they had assembled themselves together again to the holy stand, to offer up thanks after their manner.

 24 Now when Alma saw this his heart was grieved; for he saw that they were a wicked and a perverse people; yea, he saw that their hearts were set upon gold, and upon silver, and upon all manner of fine goods.

 25 Yea, and he also saw that their hearts were lifted up unto great boasting, in their pride.

 26 And he lifted up his voice to heaven, and cried, saying: O, how long, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that thy servants shall dwell here below in the flesh, to behold such gross wickedness among the children of men?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/31.21?lang=eng

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by tesuji

[tesuji]

(post deleted due to editor bug)

Edited August 27, 2016 by tesuji

[prisonchaplain]

@tesuji brings up two realities. First, many younger believers--even in "born again" church--say that Christianity is one path to God.  They may even state that it is best. However, at least when responding to surveys, they do not express the exclusivity of Jesus as the one way of salvation.  Second, there are many well-behaved people in other religions, as well as among atheists, agnostics, and "nones." 

The quote about the Zoramites almost seems like a contradiction to John 4:6, where Jesus says he is the way, true and life, and that no one can come to the Father, except through him.  Except, that Jesus did say that.  My own conclusion is that the Zoramites are more akin to any religious person who follows the practices and regulations of a faith tradition, but never really communes with God.  Jesus warns often of the Day of Judgment, when people will come proclaiming what they did in his name, and he will answer them, saying he did not know them.

Believers must bear the burden of our exclusive pathway to the Father, through Jesus Christ.  Whether to extend that to your church is an in-house discussion.  It may or may not be as important to say that true fulfillment comes through reaching the Celestial Kingdom.  BUT, at minimum, should we not seek to introduce those in our circles of influence to the Savior?  After all, I doubt there are many LDS who say, at funerals, "Well, s/he surely made the Telestial Kingdom--so, at least they're not in hell. Let's celebrate!"

[Guest]

On 8/27/2016 at 8:24 AM, tesuji said:

I get your point. 

The quote is "To lead the best, most meaningful life, one must belong to the one, fundamentally true religion." I was trying to make the point that someone does not have to be a Mormon to live the best, most meaningful life - at this exact point in their life. 

I get your point that you've now restated it.  But your original statement of such an idea being "indefensible" was what I had a problem with.

[bytebear]

Just the fact that members of the church are the only ones with the gift of the Holy Ghost is enough to say "yes" to the question.  No other way to receive this gift.

[Traveler]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 4:40 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I'm very simple-minded on this one.  There is no good meaning to mortal life if one ends up in hell.  So, I'm guessing most in the traditional Christian communities, with our binary understanding of what comes next, would answer in the affirmative.  As a personal example, I work with some fantastic psychologists.  They have studied hard and well, and have earned for themselves vocations in which they help people journey through life, every day.  And yet, whenever questions of eternity and "higher powers" comes up, they will refer to my department.  There is great temporal meaning in what they do.  They demonstrate high levels of personal satisfaction and "self-actualization."  BUT ...  and this is the offense of our faith.  This is why people accuse us of being arrogant, selfish, condescending and judgmental.  AND, there really is no solution. 

 

Of course (at least I think) that you understand my great respect for you.  However, I must admit that there is an attitude I find in many religious thinkers that I find somewhat irrational and hypercritical – and because I think you have provided a good example in your post I thought to make it an example.  That is that many “Christians” seem to believe that G-d is merciful and forgiving to them because they have realized things they have thought and done that is wrong before G-d.  That at the last judgment G-d will not hold them to account.  But others that have suffered greatly because of their thoughts and deeds will stand before G-d (perhaps even with more sorrow and regret than you and I) at that final judgment and that G-d will not be as loving and kind to them – damning them forever to Hell.  Not just for a few weeks, months or even years – but forever with no chance, ever for relief. 

There is a strong tradition among Christians that just because someone in this life did not believe in Christ (someone without the opportunities to know and understand Christ as we have) despite all their efforts to love and be kind to their fellow man will be damned forever.  A doctrinal belief that brought about the determinists with good argument for their sort of extreme view to define the worse sin as turning from G-d – even to those that do not know where to turn to G-d.

I find it much more simple, rational and less hypercritical to believe that G-d so loves everyone that he will never turn away from anyone that has come to a sorrow for their unclean thought and sins.  I have said this before and in light of your words – say them again – that I believe in a loving, merciful G-d that intends to forgive anyone, anytime and anyplace that is sorry for sin.  Thus Hell is not just of our own making but of our desires, wants and passions as well – not just for ourselves but especially that which we find, for now, as the worse in others.

The good meaning for life for everyone that comes to this live is that we (and not G-d or the circumstance he created for us) will determine what we love and desire of heaven or hell and that a loving G-d will reward everyone according to their desire and not what others think of them in this life.  That we all have the same advantages and disadvantages when we stand before G-d to make our desires known to all.

 

The Traveler

Edited August 29, 2016 by Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler points out what our forefathers call "the offense of the cross." If salvation is only through faith in Christ, then it can appear that we gloat because we chose the right religion. It can appear that we believe devils can convert on their death beds, but saintly "pagans" get damned to eternal hellfire.

I can only promise you that my faith in Christ came and continues on a basis of humble gratitude.  I cannot prepare to face God. I can't dress good enough, pray long enough, endure deeply enough, give away enough of my possessions, or abstain from enough drugs, tobacco, and fatty foods to come before my LORD clean. I must look to the cross and say, "That is my payment. That is my justification!"

As for the damned--God is just. He will do right by his creation. I cannot and will not judge God. This was the error of Adam & Eve. They were promised that if they ate of the fruit they would be like God, judging good and evil.  IMHO, this is the new intellectual struggle of our generation.  In the past we were asked to prove God is real--that he exists. Today, we are asked how it is he can be noble, or good--given the world's ills, given the sanctions against those with same-sex attraction, and given that nasty doctrine of hell.

[Syme]

On 8/25/2016 at 1:37 PM, omegaseamaster75 said:

To lead the best, most meaningful life, one must belong to the one, fundamentally true religion.

This question was on the survey posted. I am curious about answers that people gave. I have my thoughts about the subject but would like to hear from others.

 

Syme's opinion:

No. If God does not reveal the truthfulness of the gospel to someone in this life (despite doing everything "right") then he/she is not meant to have the gospel in this life.

I believe each person's path is tailored specifically for them, and not receiving the gospel (despite doing everything "right") is part of his plan.