LDS football players

[dahlia]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know a darned thing about sports, other than to say Go Skins!  and Go Blue!

After listening to all the hoopla about the guy who won't stand up during the Anthem, I wondered - are there any LDS football players? If you play on Sunday and probably can't go to church for months, could you be considered an active Mormon? We have a number of physicians in our ward and sometimes they are on call on Sunday, but being on call is different from choosing a career where you definitively will have to work on Sunday, and aren't we supposed to avoid those?

Just curious. If a guy plays well at BYU, is graduation the end of his football career? 

[MrShorty]

Absolutely not. There are several LDS athletes who have played or are playing Pro football, Elder Gifford Nielsen played for the Houston Oilers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifford_Nielsen Probably best known is Steve Young. I read something today about Vai Sikahema who is a coach for Philadealphia as he helped with the temple open house. And that is just the tip of the iceberg, especially if we also consider professionals in other sports (basketball, soccer, etc.)

Interestingly, I heard something on the radio about Jason Whittingham choosing to withdraw from the NFL this week, so there are some LDS football players who could play in the NFL who choose not to (among other pro sports. I am reminded of the Australian footballer who chose not to pursue a pro career in Australian football).

It's probably too much to put on Elder Neilsen's shoulders, but his ordination to the 1st Quorum of Seventy has made me kind of rethink some of this "are we supposed to avoid unnecessary Sunday employment". I am beginning to believe that, like the Church keeps officially saying, the choices around keeping the Sabbath holy are personal. Some will choose not to pursue pro sports (or similar unnecessary Sunday careers), and some will make that choice. I know that some in our history have suggested that we should not pursue such careers, but the Church officially appears to leave up to each person to decide for themselves.

Good question, I don't know if I know the final answer, nor the answer that applies to everyone, but I have thought some of the same things.

[Guest Godless]

http://byucougars.com/m-football/cougars-pros

According to this link, there are currently 15 BYU graduates playing in the NFL, and one head coach. This doesn't include LDS players who attended other schools, like Haloti Ngata (Oregon, though BYU was his first choice).

 

Hall of Fame QB and current ESPN commentator Steve Young also attended BYU, at the same time as my mother actually. ESPN analyst Merril Hoge (Idaho St.) is LDS and used to play for the Steelers. His son Beau is a freshman QB at BYU this year.

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, Godless said:

 

According to this link, there are currently 15 BYU graduates playing in the NFL, and one head coach.

They're not necessarily LDS, right?

Here's an article I read a while back on the BYU site about LDS member's contemplation about Sunday sports:  http://universe.byu.edu/2013/04/17/1balancing-sports-on-sundays/

 

[Guest Godless]

22 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

They're not necessarily LDS, right?

 

True, but given the demographics at BYU, it's probably a safe bet that most of them are.

[Guest MormonGator]

12 hours ago, dahlia said:

If you play on Sunday and probably can't go to church for months, could you be considered an active Mormon?

 That's a great question dahlia. 

In my view the issue is a bit more gray than what people want to admit. This is how these men feed their families. They pay their mortgage this way. To a man, that's very important. They play a few years in the NFL and they may never have to work again for their entire lives. They can also spread the gospel through their fame and behavior. After all, many people know the church through Steve Young. 
 

Edited August 30, 2016 by MormonGator

[MrShorty]

47 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

They can also spread the gospel through their fame and behavior. After all, many people know the church through Steve Young. 

Hoke mentions this same thing in the Daily Universe article. I kind of struggle with it, though. Perhaps because I grew up with the idea that pursuing fame was a "shallow" pursuit, something to avoid. Sunday work/careers in "public health and safety" type careers made sense, because your Sunday work is necessary for the functioning and well-being of the community. But justifying Sunday work because "I might become famous" always rubbed me the wrong way. Perhaps, like education (to be learned is good if we hearken to God) and wealth (seek first the kingdom of God, then you will seek for riches to do good), fame is also "good" if it is done for the glory of God? Does it really justify working on Sunday? What does that mean for the vast majority of us who are working in low profile careers?

As Hoke said in the article, it seems to be a very personal decision, that the Church is letting us individually decide. The general principle is there (6 days shalt thou labor, and rest on the Sabbath), there are clearly exceptions to the rule. Deciding if you should follow the general principle, or if you are an exception, is left up to us as individuals.

[omegaseamaster75]

It's  gray area, If you are a professional athlete you earn your $$$ working on Sunday. Sometimes lots of Sundays, and yes you can still be considered active in the church and a member in good standing.  Johnny Miller comes to mind, one of the most famous golfers of the modern era and LDS, he made his money by making cuts which allowed him to play on Sundays.  He had a talent or the game of golf should he have just not played?

If you own a restaurant should you be closed on Sundays? or a hotel? or gas station? It's a personal decision but most would stay open and make some cheese so they could pay a mortgage and feed their families.

[Guest MormonGator]

For a few years I wished JaMarcus Russell was a religious man and didn't play on Sundays. @pam is a huge Raiders fan and feels the same way! 

Edited August 30, 2016 by MormonGator

[omegaseamaster75]

11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

For a few years I wished JaMarcus Russell was a religious man and didn't play on Sundays. @pam is a huge Raiders fan and feels the same way! 

As a Bay Area resident and a life long Raiders fan I prayed every Sunday that he would find God and give up football.....I don't think my prayers ever made it to the ceiling.  ;(

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

As a Bay Area resident and a life long Raiders fan I prayed every Sunday that he would find God and give up football.....I don't think my prayers ever made it to the ceiling.  ;(

Those were sad  times, for sure. 

[Traveler]

Many think that Sabbath means Sunday.  I can understand the purpose in having a common Sabbath in a community of Saints but the truth is that Sabbath does not mean Sunday.  It is my understanding that we keep one day in seven as a covenant Sabbath.  I understand that Sunday is recommended but it is also my understanding that if because of work or an ox in the mire – that G-d is not offended if we devote another day to keep holy.  I also believe G-d is offended by his children that go on vacation with no intention of keeping any day as holy.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

15 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Many think that Sabbath means Sunday.  I can understand the purpose in having a common Sabbath in a community of Saints but the truth is that Sabbath does not mean Sunday.  It is my understanding that we keep one day in seven as a covenant Sabbath.  I understand that Sunday is recommended but it is also my understanding that if because of work or an ox in the mire – that G-d is not offended if we devote another day to keep holy.  I also believe G-d is offended by his children that go on vacation with no intention of keeping any day as holy.

Have you ever heard of a professional athlete, LDS or otherwise, who says, "My job requires that I play (i.e. work) on Sunday, so instead I am making [insert other day of week] as my own personal Sabbath"? I have never heard such a thing.

I have neither the authority nor the inclination to pass judgment on how some professional athlete keeps or does not keep the Sabbath, or for that matter anyone else besides myself and my own family. I condemn no one. But on the other hand, I hear many say, "Keeping the Sabbath is strictly between the person and God," then act as if this idea justifies any action the person wants to take. It's the same attitude as permeates tithing: It's between the person and God, so therefore there is no right answer -- or more accurately, the "right" answer is whatever answer you come up with that you like.

This is false. There most certainly is a right answer, and it's not just whatever is most convenient for you. Saying that "it's between you and God" does not give you carte blanche to do whatever you want; it means you are now more on the hook, not less, to get the answer right. It means your condemnation is greater if you fail to do as God would have you do.

So you want to do thus-and-such on Sunday, and excuse it as permissible because that's your personal way of keeping the Sabbath day holy? You want to tithe all money you have left over after paying taxes, mortgage, food, car payments, clothing budget, and reasonable entertainment expenses? More power to you. But don't think that "between you and God" justifies you in any decision you care to take. It does quite the opposite.

[omegaseamaster75]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

Have you ever heard of a professional athlete, LDS or otherwise, who says, "My job requires that I play (i.e. work) on Sunday, so instead I am making [insert other day of week] as my own personal Sabbath"? I have never heard such a thing.

I have neither the authority nor the inclination to pass judgment on how some professional athlete keeps or does not keep the Sabbath, or for that matter anyone else besides myself and my own family. I condemn no one. But on the other hand, I hear many say, "Keeping the Sabbath is strictly between the person and God," then act as if this idea justifies any action the person wants to take. It's the same attitude as permeates tithing: It's between the person and God, so therefore there is no right answer -- or more accurately, the "right" answer is whatever answer you come up with that you like.

This is false. There most certainly is a right answer, and it's not just whatever is most convenient for you. Saying that "it's between you and God" does not give you carte blanche to do whatever you want; it means you are now more on the hook, not less, to get the answer right. It means your condemnation is greater if you fail to do as God would have you do.

So you want to do thus-and-such on Sunday, and excuse it as permissible because that's your personal way of keeping the Sabbath day holy? You want to tithe all money you have left over after paying taxes, mortgage, food, car payments, clothing budget, and reasonable entertainment expenses? More power to you. But don't think that "between you and God" justifies you in any decision you care to take. It does quite the opposite.

Except that it is between the individual and God. I do not think that anyone is seeking justification by making that claim. 

You claim to condemn no one yet you go on to rant about how the individual is more on the hook, and greater condemnation

Do you that that the LDS professional athlete will be judged harsher come judgment day as a result of him not keeping the Sabbath day holy because of work requirements? Or the net tithe payer? or the net of net tithe payer? or the restaurant owner, or the hotel owner?

For someone who claims to pass no judgment you come off as pretty judgey..

 

[Vort]

13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I do not think that anyone is seeking justification by making that claim.

Then you are mistaken.

13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You claim to condemn no one yet you go on to rant about how the individual is more on the hook, and greater condemnation

Do you disagree? Do you think that "between you and God" really means "it doesn't matter"?

13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Do you that that the LDS professional athlete will be judged harsher come judgment day as a result of him not keeping the Sabbath day holy because of work requirements? Or the net tithe payer? or the net of net tithe payer? or the restaurant owner, or the hotel owner?

My sincere feelings on this is that it is not a matter of judgment day. I believe these things carry their own intrinsic reward or punishment.

13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

For someone who claims to pass no judgment you come off as pretty judgey..

Pretty much the judgment I expected from you. But, just for laughs, why don't you tell us which parts you disagree with and why?

Edited August 30, 2016 by Vort

[omegaseamaster75]

32 minutes ago, Vort said:

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

Do you disagree? Do you think that "between you and God" really means "it doesn't matter"?

I didn't say that it didn't matter did I. It shouldn't matter to YOU but somehow it does.

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

My sincere feelings on this is that it is not a matter of judgment day. I believe these things carry their own intrinsic reward or punishment.

Your belief,  you don't nor could you know how God will punish or reward the individual.

 

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

Pretty much the judgment I expected from you. But, just for laughs, why don't you tell us which parts you disagree with and why?

Which parts of what? if someone wants to play pro sports by all means they should do it, I would still consider them a member on good standing and when I see them at church (after football season) I'll ask about the games.

Edited August 30, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[Vort]

16 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Which parts of what?

Which parts of what I wrote.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Vort

[SilentOne]

43 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You claim to condemn no one yet you go on to rant about how the individual is more on the hook, and greater condemnation... For someone who claims to pass no judgment you come off as pretty judgey...

There's a difference between saying, "Steve Young worked on Sundays. That was bad of him," and saying, "From various rationales I've heard about Sabbath day choices, I think some, or maybe even a lot, are missing the point of something being between you and the Lord." I understood @Vort's comment to be more of the latter.

[pam]

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

For a few years I wished JaMarcus Russell was a religious man and didn't play on Sundays. @pam is a huge Raiders fan and feels the same way! 

@MormonGator   If anyone wanted to get banned...that's the way to do it.

[pam]

Eric Weddle who played for the San Diego Chargers and now plays for the Baltimore Ravens stated that dependent on what time the game is, no matter where he is, he will try his hardest to find a local meeting to at least attend Sacrament meeting.  So while they play on Sundays, there are probably a few that do the same thing as him.

[Guest MormonGator]

I think the NFL lifestyle is very hostile to faith. Not to be blunt, but let's be frank. Lots of drugs and partying. I admire guys for not getting into that lifestyle and it must take a great effort. That's one of the many reasons I admire Tim Tebow. 

[Guest MormonGator]

59 minutes ago, pam said:

@MormonGator   If anyone wanted to get banned...that's the way to do it.

 And I didn't even mention Ryan Leaf! 

 

[Guest Godless]

49 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 And I didn't even mention Ryan Leaf! 

 

Most football fans try not to. 

[dahlia]

Whew! Lotsa heat on this thread. Before I leave you all to fight amongst yourselves, I'll just say that 'between God and yourself' can be a slippery slope. I know I have to remind myself of that frequently.

[pam]

Oh Dalia...this isn't fighting. This is how we always talk football.  hahahaha