Church responds to leaked videos

[pam]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865663842/LDS-Church-responds-to-leaked-videos-of-private-meetings-with-Mormon-apostles.html

SALT LAKE CITY — The LDS Church and a former George W. Bush Cabinet member responded Sunday afternoon to the unauthorized leak of 15 videos of briefings provided to the church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

"Most of these videos appear to be from briefings received by senior church leaders between 2007 and 2012," said Eric Hawkins, spokesman for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "In these committee meetings, presentations are routinely received from various religious, political and subject-matter experts on a variety of topics.

 

Any postings of links to these videos will be deleted.

[estradling75]

In the D&C section 9 we read

 7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

 8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

This is the Pattern the Lord describes to Oliver on how to receive Revelation.  This pattern holds for everyone including the current prophet and apostles.  These videos clearly show the leaders of the church "Studying it out."   The only way these videos can pose a problem is if people make the same mistake that Oliver did and got rebuked in verse 7 for so doing.

Edited October 3, 2016 by estradling75

[NeuroTypical]

Heh.  I remember years ago, moving into a new ward, I heard "come to the priesthood meeting in the stake center", so I went.  It turns out, it was meant for Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies only, and was run by Apostle Robert D. Hales.   But my bishop was kind, and invited me to sit next to him.   It was a meeting at least three levels above my personal comfort zone.

Guess what - everyone in that meeting were humans, devoted to doing good things and being the best disciples of Christ they could.  

As I start going through these videos, I see more of the same.  Yeah, there is some "dirt", things often speculated about and not disclosed.  But this look into our church leaders behind closed doors in private meetings, heh.  The first YouTube comment I see is sort of telling:

Quote

Has this video something wrong or embarrassing for the LDS Church?

And here I was hoping we could see the ritual of the kicking of the giant toad or something.  No virgin sacrifices, no weird dances or monotone ritualistic chanting.  Not even a single blood sacrifice.  It's like the church meetings I attend, except the numbers are bigger. 

[Guest MormonGator]

In this brave new world. it's always a good idea to behave like the entire world is going to see what you are doing. 

[zil]

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

And here I was hoping we could see the ritual of the kicking of the giant toad or something.  No virgin sacrifices, no weird dances or monotone ritualistic chanting.  Not even a single blood sacrifice.

Dude, you still aren't getting enough sleep, are you?

[Larry Cotrell]

11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

In this brave new world. it's always a good idea to behave like the entire world is going to see what you are doing. 

True. And most importantly, God is watching.

Proverbs 15:3

"The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good."

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

True. And most importantly, God is watching.

Yup. I saw the movie Snowden last weekend with some friends and we got into a long, interesting discussion about this very thing. My friends girlfriend said something about how incidents like this "aren't fair" (and they aren't, this was a violation of privacy) but once they happen, arguing over if it was fair or not is a moot point. It happened and you can't go back in time. 

[NightSG]

10 hours ago, pam said:

"In these committee meetings, presentations are routinely received from various religious, political and subject-matter experts on a variety of topics.

I dunno; out of curiosity I watched most of the one about YSA issues, and I was pretty unimpressed.  It seems to me they didn't have a subject matter expert.  They had some people who thought they were, but asking a bunch of older married men about current singles issues makes about as much sense as asking them how it feels to be an unwed mother.  It wasn't a discussion about whether unicorns like fried chicken; there are hundreds of thousands of people living their subject matter throughout the Church and they didn't solicit input from them.  Instead, they brought in more older married men to repeat the party line of "if they serve more, they'll be fixed."

I see that as people who just want their preexisting conclusions affirmed, whether they're true or not, and that worries me when those same people are supposed to be receiving revelation about the most important things in this life.

Edited October 3, 2016 by NightSG

[omegaseamaster75]

8 minutes ago, NightSG said:

I see that as people who just want their preexisting conclusions affirmed, whether they're true or not, and that worries me when those same people are supposed to be receiving revelation about the most important things in this life.

I 100% agree with NightSG on this.  My stake president loves to give dating advice and how to prepare and meet your spouse, but he married the first and only girl he ever dated....... 

[omegaseamaster75]

I just saw the Chelsea Manning one...they seemed to me pretty hung up on the sexual orientation and not so much on the content. Granted this is not in context, I wasn't there and I don't think we are seeing all of it. 

If you watch the news these days sexual orientation only comes up in passing and is never central to the stories.

[NightSG]

24 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I 100% agree with NightSG on this.  My stake president loves to give dating advice and how to prepare and meet your spouse, but he married the first and only girl he ever dated....... 

Honestly, I'd trust omegaseamaster75 and I agreeing on something as proof that it's universal, divine truth before I'd trust revelations that merely confirm what the recipient wanted/expected to hear.

Sometimes I think the Spirit is just too busy facepalming at what we've asked it and doesn't get around to sending the stupor of thought in time.  We then mistake that for confirmation.

ETA: the mental image of a being without a body trying to figure out how to facepalm has now kept me amused for several minutes.

Edited October 3, 2016 by NightSG

[NeuroTypical]

29 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I just saw the Chelsea Manning one...they seemed to me pretty hung up on the sexual orientation and not so much on the content. Granted this is not in context, I wasn't there and I don't think we are seeing all of it. 

Keep in mind, the boring business-as-usual videos are all 40-50 minutes long.  The "We've got dirt on you now" videos are like 4-5 minutes long.  Of course it was taken out of context, because the "context" would be the other 40 minutes of video.  Absolutely a "hit piece" made to show our leaders in a negative light.  

[Guest MormonGator]

32 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I 100% agree with NightSG on this.  My stake president loves to give dating advice and how to prepare and meet your spouse, but he married the first and only girl he ever dated....... 

 Both you and @NightSG are right about this. Growing up Catholic I asked my mother once how a single, celibate man can tell you many kids to have or give marital advice. Well, it's easy for him to say. He's never been married or had kids or been forced to work three jobs to feed them. 

 

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

  Absolutely a "hit piece" made to show our leaders in a negative light.  

Yup. It's totally unlike the Snowden/Manning leaks. Like it or not, only LDS care about this. We're all Americans and we should all care about Manning/Snowden

[anatess2]

16 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 Both you and @NightSG are right about this. Growing up Catholic I asked my mother once how a single, celibate man can tell you many kids to have or give marital advice. Well, it's easy for him to say. He's never been married or had kids or been forced to work three jobs to feed them. 

 

In the middle of my first pregnancy, my female midwife got replaced by a male OB without notice in the OBGYN practice that I went to.  The OB walked into the room and I got upset.  I demanded a female midwife or OB.  I told him - how could you possibly know how I'm feeling you've never even had a period!  The OB just chuckled and said, I'd dare say a vast majority of cancer patients are treated by doctors who has never had cancer before.  So yeah, he became my OB and when I was 6 weeks from my due date and he moved to a different practice, I abandoned the comfort of knowing everybody in that practice to venture into the unknown of a new practice just so I can keep him as my OB.

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

In the middle of my first pregnancy, my female midwife got replaced by a male OB without notice in the OBGYN practice that I went to.  The OB walked into the room and I got upset.  I demanded a female midwife or OB.  I told him - how could you possibly know how I'm feeling you've never even had a period!  The OB just chuckled and said, I'd dare say a vast majority of cancer patients are treated by doctors who has never had cancer before.  So yeah, he became my OB and when I was 6 weeks from my due date and he moved to a different practice, I abandoned the comfort of knowing everybody in that practice to venture into the unknown of a new practice just so I can keep him as my OB.

Slightly different. An OBGYN dedicates their life to their job. They study and go to school for years strictly for that purpose-they aren't studying philosophy or calculus. Just OBGYN stuff. That's why if you ask your OBGYN about Ebola, they might know more than you and I-but they are speaking vastly out of their area of expertise and don't know what they are talking about or can't give specifics. 
 

Edited October 3, 2016 by MormonGator

[anatess2]

13 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Slightly different. An OBGYN dedicates their life to their job. They study and go to school for years strictly for that purpose-they aren't studying philosophy or calculus. Just OBGYN stuff. That's why if you ask your OBGYN about Ebola, they might know more than you and I-but they are speaking vastly out of their area of expertise and don't know what they are talking about or can't give specifics. 
 

A Catholic Priest has a master's degree in theology and its application to society.  They don't spend time in calculus.  That's why if you ask a celibate Priest about families and sexuality, they can give you the perfect advice with the application of spirituality in humanities.  Don't ask them about how the bell tower is engineered so the bell won't fall down to kill the congregation when it tolls, though, you can't trust their answer.

Edited October 3, 2016 by anatess2

[NeuroTypical]

My wife was fiercely loyal to her OB, and vice versa.  Apparently, everyone called him "Dr. Giggles", and he did giggle quite a lot.  

He also would occasionally need to cancel an appointment with very short notice, like "15 minutes before the appointment" kind of short notice.  It was because something horrible was discovered with the appointment right before, and he'd have to induce a dead baby or something.  He'd cancel the next appt so he could stay and cry and mourn with his patient.  No giggles when that happened - the man did honestly look ten years older. 

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

A Catholic Priest has a master's degree in theology and its application to society.  They don't spend time in calculus.  That's why if you ask a celibate Priest about families and sexuality, they can give you the perfect advice with the application of spirituality in humanities.  Don't ask them about how the bell tower is engineered so the bell won't fall down to kill the congregation when it tolls, though.

No, they actually can't.  Simply because of the fact that they don't have wives, children or the problems/challenges that come with it. It's like asking a person who has been bankrupted four times about how to handle your money. And "theology" has nothing to do with "counseling" so you are wrong there too. 

I grew up orthodox Catholic just like you did, by the way. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by MormonGator

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

No, they actually can't. Simply because of the fact that they don't have wives, children or the problems/challenges that come with it. It's like asking a person who has been bankrupted four times about how to handle your money. And "theology" has nothing to do with "counseling" so you are wrong there too. 

See, that's what I'm trying to tell you.  My OB doesn't have to have a baby himself to know how to deliver mine.  Or the oncologist to have had cancer himself.  And you say that's not related because they spend years of study on that their areas of expertise.  What do you think Catholic priest have master's degree for?  What color vestments to wear on what month of the calendar?

Theology has nothing to do with counseling?  What's theology for then???   What's the magesterium for?  What's Canon law for?  What's catechism for?  Memorizing the Psalms and be able to say it backwards?

What do Catholic Priests do everyday of their lives?  Learn to Chant?

Edited October 3, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

\Theology has nothing to do with counseling?  

the·ol·o·gy

THēˈäləjē/

noun

the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed

**************************************************************************

coun·sel·ing

ˈkouns(ə)liNG/

noun

the provision of assistance and guidance in resolving personal, social, or psychological problems and difficulties, especially by a professional

********************************************************************************

 

[anatess2]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

the·ol·o·gy

THēˈäləjē/

noun

the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed

**************************************************************************

coun·sel·ing

ˈkouns(ə)liNG/

noun

the provision of assistance and guidance in resolving personal, social, or psychological problems and difficulties, especially by a professional

********************************************************************************

 

Dude... you obviously have no idea what Priests study.  Masters in Theology in a secular setting is a completely different study than Catholic Seminary... which is also completely different than LDS Seminary or even Sunday School.

But even Theology in a secular setting is a study of God... and THAT is a study in humanity and the FAMILY.  Which, of course, is the foundation of Christian Humanity which is the foundation of Christian Psychology a part of which is being able to apply such knowledge to Counseling.

Edited October 3, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Dude... you obviously have no idea what Priests study.  Masters in Theology in a secular setting is a completely different study than Catholic Seminary... which is also completely different than LDS Seminary or even Sunday School.

I actually gave serious consideration to becoming one and stayed at the Legionnaires of Christ school before. So once again, you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about 

Edited October 3, 2016 by MormonGator

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I actually gave serious consideration to becoming one and stayed at the Legionnaires of Christ school before. So once again, you are wrong. 

You sure are not showing such experience... so...

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

You sure are not showing such experience... so...

i'll send you a copy of my resume. 

[estradling75]

Do our leaders need to commit sin in order to council and comfort sinners?  Of course not...  the logic of demanding such simply boggles the mind...

Do you have to be a single parent to understand God plan and how it applies???....  Well apparently according to some on this forum one does...  And the logic of such simply boggles the mind.

Like the church suddenly can't help you be a better and more Christ-like person the moment you think you are some kind of special case...