Relationships and Jesus

[anatess2]

I just need to share a conversation I overheard between my 2 boys.

My 15-year-old who lives in Florida has a girlfriend who lives in Colorado.  They would FaceTime  every night and read the Book of Mormon.  His younger brother sits in the room to follow along but he would get upset if his brother makes a comment or try to get himself visible on the screen.  This has been going on for a while and finally my younger son confronted my older son about him feeling left out in the scripture study.  This is the conversation I overheard.

13 yr old: "Why can't I have a turn in the reading and why can't I make comments or ask questions until after you hang up?

15 yr old: Because it's something special between my girlfriend and me.  If you want to study then you should find a girl friend you can share scriptures with.

13 yr old: I don't want a girlfriend.  It's stupid when you're still in school.  You can always find something else special with your girlfriend so I don't just end up like a fly on scripture study.

15 yr old:  Jesus is the only thing special.  Without Jesus there's no relationship.

13 yr old:  I'm your brother.  Without Jesus we won't have a relationship.

15 yr old:  Mom and Dad guarantees Jesus is in our relationship because Jesus is the reason they have a relationship and a family with it.

13 yr old:  But it's different studying with Mom and Dad.  I want to study with you.

15 yr old:  That's why you need a girlfriend even when you're still in school.

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of that conversation.  If that girlfriend was not as far away as Colorado, I would make a lot of noise about it.  15 years old, let alone 13 years old, is too young for a girlfriend in my book.  But what can I say when a kid says you need a girlfriend to study scriptures with?  That feels  like.... uhm, guilt tripping me or something.

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by anatess2

[CV75]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

I just need to share a conversation I overheard between my 2 boys.

My 15-year-old who lives in Florida has a girlfriend who lives in Colorado.  They would FaceTime  every night and read the Book of Mormon.  His younger brother sits in the room to follow along but he would get upset if his brother makes a comment or try to get himself visible on the screen.  This has been going on for a while and finally my younger son confronted my older son about him feeling left out in the scripture study.  This is the conversation I overheard.

13 yr old: "Why can't I have a turn in the reading and why can't I make comments or ask questions until after you hang up?

15 yr old: Because it's something special between my girlfriend and me.  If you want to study then you should find a girl friend you can share scriptures with.

13 yr old: I don't want a girlfriend.  It's stupid when you're still in school.  You can always find something else special with your girlfriend so I don't just end up like a fly on scripture study.

15 yr old:  Jesus is the only thing special.  Without Jesus there's no relationship.

13 yr old:  I'm your brother.  Without Jesus we won't have a relationship.

15 yr old:  Mom and Dad guarantees Jesus is in our relationship because Jesus is the reason they have a relationship and a family with it.

13 yr old:  But it's different studying with Mom and Dad.  I want to study with you.

15 yr old:  That's why you need a girlfriend even when you're still in school.

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of that conversation.  If that girlfriend was not as far away as Colorado, I would make a lot of noise about it.  15 years old, let alone 13 years old, is too young for a girlfriend in my book.  But what can I say when a kid says you need a girlfriend to study scriptures with?  That feels  like.... uhm, guilt tripping me or something.

 

Maybe a family council would help. Not for you to referee, but to bring up true principles that address their concerns. That might reveal needs that might be met by family scripture study, and the older boy can study separately with his girlfriend when the family has invested in developing their relationship in Jesus. It might also bring up a discussion on dating (maybe eventually he whole Strength of Youth material for that matter), and how romantic relationships change over the early to later teen years, etc. so the boys know what they might expect and be prepared for. They can learn a lot from their parents, I would think.

[Jane_Doe]

It's not like you can only study the scriptures one time a day or with one person!  And no, you don't need a girl friend to study scriptures

If big brother wants to study scriptures with his girlfriend as a relationship thing, I think that's fantastic!  (I wouldn't worry about the relationship growing to fast, due to the distance).

If little brother wants to study with big brother, that's fantastic too!  Both study sessions should be encourage!  The brothers can study together (or perhaps with the whole family), and then go study with just the girlfriend. 

[mordorbund]

18 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I just need to share a conversation I overheard between my 2 boys.

My 15-year-old who lives in Florida has a girlfriend who lives in Colorado.  They would FaceTime  every night and read the Book of Mormon.  His younger brother sits in the room to follow along but he would get upset if his brother makes a comment or try to get himself visible on the screen.  This has been going on for a while and finally my younger son confronted my older son about him feeling left out in the scripture study.  This is the conversation I overheard.

13 yr old: "Why can't I have a turn in the reading and why can't I make comments or ask questions until after you hang up?

15 yr old: Because it's something special between my girlfriend and me.  If you want to study then you should find a girl friend you can share scriptures with.

13 yr old: I don't want a girlfriend.  It's stupid when you're still in school.  You can always find something else special with your girlfriend so I don't just end up like a fly on scripture study.

15 yr old:  Jesus is the only thing special.  Without Jesus there's no relationship.

13 yr old:  I'm your brother.  Without Jesus we won't have a relationship.

15 yr old:  Mom and Dad guarantees Jesus is in our relationship because Jesus is the reason they have a relationship and a family with it.

13 yr old:  But it's different studying with Mom and Dad.  I want to study with you.

15 yr old:  That's why you need a girlfriend even when you're still in school.

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of that conversation.  If that girlfriend was not as far away as Colorado, I would make a lot of noise about it.  15 years old, let alone 13 years old, is too young for a girlfriend in my book.  But what can I say when a kid says you need a girlfriend to study scriptures with?  That feels  like.... uhm, guilt tripping me or something.

 

I'm interested to hear how your family resolves this. My wife and I had the exact same conversation last week. And she doesn't want to get a girlfriend just to read scriptures either.

[Guest]

Your 15 yo is spouting false doctrine.  And it can be dangerous.

OR

This is just a bunch of nonsense that your teens are choosing to fight over.  And it will pass.

[NightSG]

Get the heaviest boxing gloves you can find and tell them to settle it between themselves.

[zil]

35 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Your 15 yo is spouting false doctrine.  And it can be dangerous.

Or maybe he's trying to say that without Christ, there are no relationships because no one is sealed to anyone - we are individuals lost forever, subject to Satan.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, zil said:

Or maybe he's trying to say that without Christ, there are no relationships because no one is sealed to anyone - we are individuals lost forever, subject to Satan.

Then he's claiming he's sealed to his girlfriend?

[zil]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Then he's claiming he's sealed to his girlfriend?

Note to self: stop pointing out vague possibilities / patterns to Captain Literal.  (Parables must drive you nuts.)

I didn't say he had it perfect - and I don't think it matters, we're all guessing here, but it's the most logical explanation I can come up with for why "Without Jesus there's no relationship."  But, really, if Christ never existed, would there be any relationships at all?  Maybe it's that simple.  Heaven knows.  Go to Florida and ask the kid what he meant and why his mom is posting it on the internet.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Go to Florida and ask the kid what he meant and why his mom is posting it on the internet.

His mom is already in Florida.  Couldn't she just ask him?  Instead, she posted the question here.  Is that some passive-aggressive thing?  Does she not have clear communication lines with her sons?  Maybe there is a breakdown of the family structure.  Should we counsel her to see the bishop?  Maybe a MFT?

She needs Jesus in her life.  Her sons seem to know an awful lot about that.  Maybe she should ask her sons about finding Jesus so she can talk to her sons about... waitaminute...

[zil]

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

His mom is already in Florida.  Couldn't she just ask him?  Instead, she posted the question here.  Is that some passive-aggressive thing?  Does she not have clear communication lines with her sons?  Maybe there is a breakdown of the family structure.  Should we counsel her to see the bishop?  Maybe a MFT?

She needs Jesus in her life.  Her sons seem to know an awful lot about that.  Maybe she should ask her sons about finding Jesus so she can talk to her sons about... waitaminute...

[unixknight]

As a battle hardened veteran of raising teenage boys who are 2 years apart...

Why would you take that conversation at face value?  Obviously, the 15 year old wants to keep the spotlight when he's spending time with his girlfriend.  He doesn't want to share the time, or his girlfriend's attention, with his little brother.  The whole story is right there in the older brother's first line (that we see quoted)

" Because it's something special between my girlfriend and me.  If you want to study then you should find a girl friend you can share scriptures with. "

That's it.  Everything else is just fluff to try and legitimize that.  He probably feels a bit guilty.

[anatess2]

Thanks for the responses, guys.  I wasn't thinking that this was an LDS Gospel topic but more of a "a day in the life of a parent" topic and the landmines we sometimes encounter or the non-existent landmines we imagine are there.

@unixknight has the main idea about the older brother conflicted about what to do with his ever-present brother in the company of his girlfriend...  but yes, my son was serious about "without Jesus there's no relationship" (hence, the BOM study with the girlfriend - she's Catholic).  That might just be worth an LDS Gospel discussion... let me think about it and I'll move this there if so.

In any case, my husband does the "all about girls" talk with the kiddos and he tells me not to worry because he's pretty sure the 13-year-old wouldn't buy into that "get a girlfriend" silliness even if it was meted out by his fountain-of-all-wisdom-in-his-eyes older brother.  He's just pleased as all get that the older brother showed a bit of that wisdom by not using scripture study to altogether kick his brother out of the room on a FaceTime session which would have broken a house rule.

I used to think that having a kid turn 8 years old was the funnest stage in parenting.  And I get all these horror stories about kids turning 15 becoming a parental nightmare.  I have to say 15 years old, so far, is proving to be more fun than 8... but yes, I've had my 15-year-old tell me, "you're a terrible mother" while he was being disciplined once.  Interestingly, I was so shocked he said it that I just stood there staring at him with my mouth open for a good minute.  I guess my look scared him because he apologized profusely and assured me he really didn't mean it.  But yeah, I remembered telling my own mother that... now I know how she felt. 

[Traveler]

 

One of the great mistakes of parents – especially teenagers, is trying to have a logical discussion with them.  The human brain is not fully developed until age 25 and the last development is in the frontal cortex that handles logical executive functions.   It is better to deal with teenagers with incentive based rules of rewards and consequences than the rigors of logic - especially complex variances of right and wrong.  For whatever reason many parents think that teenagers should be good for nothing. 

 

The Traveler

[Jamie123]

12 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

One of the great mistakes of parents – especially teenagers, is trying to have a logical discussion with them.  The human brain is not fully developed until age 25 and the last development is in the frontal cortex that handles logical executive functions.   It is better to deal with teenagers with incentive based rules of rewards and consequences than the rigors of logic - especially complex variances of right and wrong.  For whatever reason many parents think that teenagers should be good for nothing. 

 

The Traveler

At the age of 13 I thought that digital watches were the greatest invention of all time and I would have willingly sold my soul if it meant I could have had one. (Perhaps I exaggerate slightly...but not much.)

At the age of 15...ummm....I'm not even going to go there.

[mordorbund]

4 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

At the age of 13 I thought that digital watches were the greatest invention of all time

I see what you did there.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

I see what you did there.

Wait, there's s Tom Swift joke in there somewhere.

[Jamie123]

23 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

I see what you did there.

I drooled at them in catalogs and in shop windows, and in the adverts for them the sliced bread packaging. Eventually I scraped up enough money to buy one, but it didn't last long. They (and other such gizmos) were hopelessly unreliable back then - even the ones not made by Clive Sinclair.  I think I got my money back from the shop, but I'm not totally sure. Quite why I thought a digital watch was a key to heaven's gate I'm not sure, but I don't think I was alone: consider what Douglas Adams had to say on the subject:

Quote

Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.

This planet has – or rather had – a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Even those who had digital watches. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn’t the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

P.S. Now I think about it, I reckon The Gemini Man had something to do with it. Remember him?

Edited February 22, 2017 by Jamie123

[Jamie123]

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Wait, there's s Tom Swift joke in there somewhere.

Hahahahaha!!! Well spotted - I'm such a comedian I don't even notice my own funnies! 

[Traveler]

6 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

At the age of 13 I thought that digital watches were the greatest invention of all time and I would have willingly sold my soul if it meant I could have had one. (Perhaps I exaggerate slightly...but not much.)

At the age of 15...ummm....I'm not even going to go there.

Interesting age, 13 to 15.  I thought I was one of the smartest (in cleaver not genius) people on the planet and that I could get everybody attention by launching a rocket into outer space.   I was never able to get anything into orbit but I did get the attention of the FBI – three times.   Later I used this unusual relationship with the FBI on scholarship applications and have wondered if it played a role in the scholarship I received.

 

The Traveler

Edited February 22, 2017 by Traveler

[Jamie123]

15 hours ago, Traveler said:

Interesting age, 13 to 15.  I thought I was one of the smartest (in cleaver not genius) people on the planet and that I could get everybody attention by launching a rocket into outer space.   I was never able to get anything into orbit but I did get the attention of the FBI – three times.   Later I used this unusual relationship with the FBI on scholarship applications and have wondered if it played a role in the scholarship I received.

 

The Traveler

I was always fascinated with rockets too. At the age of about 8 I built a "rocket" which consisted of a yogurt pot filled with methylated spirit, upon which was balanced an upturned Vim container with holes cut in the sides for exhaust outlets. I fancy there was also a nose-cone to make it streamlined, and some fins to give it stability in flight.

The theory was that once ignited, the fire from the methylated spirit would rise through the holes in the vim container, come blasting out of the outlets and propel the rocket skyward.

Before the scheduled blast-off, I gave my parents a guided tour of the launch site. My father was less than sanguine about the "rocket"'s potential, but he didn't stop me lighting the fuse.

Let's just say that the result was not quite what I had envisioned. So as the phrase goes, "I'm not exactly a rocket scientist".

Edited February 23, 2017 by Jamie123

[Traveler]

7 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

I was always fascinated with rockets too. At the age of about 8 I built a "rocket" which consisted of a yogurt pot filled with methylated spirit, upon which was balanced an upturned Vim container with holes cut in the sides for exhaust outlets. I fancy there was also a nose-cone to make it streamlined, and some fins to give it stability in flight.

The theory was that once ignited, the fire from the methylated spirit would rise through the holes in the vim container, come blasting out of the outlets and propel the rocket skyward.

Before the scheduled blast-off, I gave my parents a guided tour of the launch site. My father was less than sanguine about the "rocket"'s potential, but he didn't stop me lighting the fuse.

Let's just say that the result was not quite what I had envisioned. So as the phrase goes, "I'm not exactly a rocket scientist".

 

I dealt with several problems – weight to fuel ratios, weight distribution to maintain straight trajectory, various fuels (the best was a solid – jelly – petroleum based – similar to napalm) but the most difficult and a problem I never came close to solving was the rocket nozzle.  The worse problem with the nozzle was burn through because I could never come up with anything to withstand the heat and pressure.  

I am very lucky that I survived my childhood.  Though I failed with rockets I created rather spectacular bombs and very nifty cannon.  The cannon was designed to fire off gulf balls – but most of the gulf balls would explode in flight.   The cannon could send a gulf ball about 3 miles.

 

The Traveler