Censoring vs Educating

[Fether]

I'm going to premise this with the fact that we are all infinitely different, we all have completely unique personalities and a wide arrange of eternally unique spiritual gifts (Spiritual gifts are endless in number and infinite in variety” - Bruce R. McConkie). so there may be varying answers from and for different people.

Basic question: When living our lives and raising children. Do we censor evil to prevent evil. Or do we educate about evil in hopes that we/those we teach will chose to avoid evil? Where does the balance lie?

Im a strong advocate for educating and less for censorship, though I do believe there is a time and a place for it. I feel like history and literature does a VERY good job of showing that complete censorship and removal of free flowing information only leads to war or rebellion (Fahrenheit 451, Netflix's The Colony, teenagers forced to only do what they are told, Facist and Dictator run Countries, Jim Jones and other cults, etc.). I was also raised by parents that allowed me to make decisions that they may not have agreed with, but let me experience the consequences for myself (I was never too wild if a person so they never feared I was going to go out and do anything too terrible. If I were different, maybe they would have reacted differently to me arriving home at 3am fevery other Friday night).

 

[NeuroTypical]

It's our job as parents to do the following:

1- Protect our children from harm.
2- Educate our children and prepare them to be capable, smart, moral, ethical, educated adults.

Keeping children ignorant of realities into adulthood, is not accomplishing #2.
Tossing our kids into uncensored internet (or having them go play in the freeway), is not accomplishing #1.

So there is indeed, a line for kids (for all of us, really) where learning about something can actually traumatize/harm us.  But where that line is, is different for different folks.  For example - we had a sick turkey and mamma needed to go put it down.  One young daughter just sat down in the middle of the field and cried for 15 minutes, and then was sad for the next week.  The other younger daughter was said "Mamma said the turkey was suffering so she took him into the barn and hung him upside down and cut his throat so he bled out because that's what's best for him!"   She was just always verbal like that.  Anyway, we handle topics like death, and killing, and murder, and violence, differently with those two girls.  

The line is vague, changes over time, and we humans often can't see it clearly, no matter how good of a parent we are.  It seems like God intended to toss mistakes and harm into the process of goodly parenting.   

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

When my children were quite young, I held their hand while crossig the street. As they got older,  I stopped holding their hand but reminded them to look both ways. Eventually I atopped worrying about their stteet crossing...until they wer learning to drive, then the process began again. I dont tell my children how to rive oe give much advice unless it's requested,  And I don't tell other adults how to crosss the street or drive.

I liken this to the gospel. When kids are young, I try to protect/shelter them. I do it less and less as they get older because they can do it for themselves.

I do make a few exceptions to this for example, I speak against porn at every opportunity because it hurts both men and women, adults and children. It's too destructive not to speak up. 

[Rob Osborn]

Taking it too the far extreme we could put porn shops and bars on every corner, not enforce drug illegal activity, remove ratings on movies, etc.

Where would we be as a society? Worse off and riddled with crime. So, lets take it to the other extreme and see- Get rid of porn shops and bars, enforce illegal drug activity, work on removing sexuality from movies, etc. We certainly would be closer to Zion if we did. We are commanded to build zion wherever we live. This means getting rid of evil and its influences. We will achieve this when the millennium comes and our children will grow up without sin unto salvation. We do not need evil to grow. Education should be about teaching true and honest facts and principles. Education should not include anything immoral, debasing, or evil.

[anatess2]

The way I'm doing it (we won't know if I succeeded until a decade or so from now... my oldest child is only 15):

I teach my kids principles and family traditions to establish their identity.  I set physical boundaries and expand them as the kids grow.

So, for example, when my kids were toddlers, they are limited to the house and yard to roam as they please.  I can control everything within my house and yard and I can manage the consequences.  We sold our old house which was not an ideal place to raise kids, spent good money to move to the neighborhood we are in now which is more conducive to the family we wanted to raise.  As they got older, the boundaries expanded to TV and internet.  When they were younger, they had a "baby computer" where they can only go to certain kiddie sites and the TV had parental controls.  As they got older, we removed the filters on TV and Internet.  They got bikes, so the boundaries expanded to anywhere their bikes can reach which could be 15 miles away.  And so on and so forth.

The whole time, they know what our family stands for.  So, like, when they started school and they come home saying stuff they learned from school, we remind them - that's not who we are.

Now, they're 13 and 15 and living in the world with all the ugly stuff.  They interact with all kinds of people with all kinds of ideologies.  They don't watch TV anymore, they don't listen to popular music.  They think those are for plebes. They have an internet presence that casts a wide net - subscribing to very varied subjects from Demolition Man to Coyote Peterson to Good Mythical Morning, Young Turks to Rubin Report to Alex Jones, etc. etc.  They don't really do social media except for Reddit and only because they think r/The_Donald is a must for conservatives too young to make their voices heard on the voting booth.

Anyway, they choose, I check and kick them back on the road if they start heading the wrong direction.  We talk.  A lot.  They read my posts here, I read their posts there, we talk about it over dinner.  We are directly connected through our group text where they shoot out texts about stuff they happen to stumble upon, I shoot out texts about what I think about it.

So, yesterday, my kid told me, "You're so dank.  I like it."  I have no clue what that meant because dank from my understanding is about drugs and I know my son wouldn't call me a druggie, so I go tool around their online stuff to figure it out.  Found out it's a compliment - like I'm on the cool-kids bench.

So, it's only 10:30AM here and this is today's Text:

Mr. Anatess:   We need to find a good ETF for American Energy.

Anatess III:  American steel, dad.  Let's put money on that.

Anatess III:  (shares a video titled Sharps .25-.45 Factory Rifle Review) If a 308 is too expensive but you don't want anything with less power than a 223.

Mr. Anatess:  What is the name of the video game we're getting for <kids' best friend>?  I can get it at lunch and wrap it up if you all want.

Anatess Jr:  Breath of the Wold for Nintendo Switch.

Anatess Jr:  NOT THE WII.

Anatess Jr:  THE SWITCH

Mr. Anatess:  Switch to what?

Mr. Anatess:  So switch to the new console?  What is it called?

Anatess Jr:  The Nintendo Switch.  It's called the Switch.

Mr. Anatess:  Right.  Switch to what?  What's the new Nintendo console called?

Anatess Jr:  I'm so sad about this.

Mr. Anatess:  Is <kids' best friend> coming over tonight?

Anatess III:  I want him to come over so I can show him something I keep under my bed.

Anatess:  Your murder gun?

Anatess III:  No, mom.  The protection gun.

Anatess III:  I want a watermelon.

 

Okay, that's a slice of life in my house.

[bytebear]

Educate them on things you cannot hide from them.  But hide from them the ugly of the world as best you can.

[Anddenex]

13 hours ago, Fether said:

I'm going to premise this with the fact that we are all infinitely different, we all have completely unique personalities and a wide arrange of eternally unique spiritual gifts (Spiritual gifts are endless in number and infinite in variety” - Bruce R. McConkie). so there may be varying answers from and for different people.

Basic question: When living our lives and raising children. Do we censor evil to prevent evil. Or do we educate about evil in hopes that we/those we teach will chose to avoid evil? Where does the balance lie?

Im a strong advocate for educating and less for censorship, though I do believe there is a time and a place for it. I feel like history and literature does a VERY good job of showing that complete censorship and removal of free flowing information only leads to war or rebellion (Fahrenheit 451, Netflix's The Colony, teenagers forced to only do what they are told, Facist and Dictator run Countries, Jim Jones and other cults, etc.). I was also raised by parents that allowed me to make decisions that they may not have agreed with, but let me experience the consequences for myself (I was never too wild if a person so they never feared I was going to go out and do anything too terrible. If I were different, maybe they would have reacted differently to me arriving home at 3am fevery other Friday night).

 

1) Personally, I wouldn't accept that our differences require truth to be different. How we parent our children may be different, the principles of truth remain the same. Zion wasn't created by multiple different spiritual gifts with different views, especially competing and opposite views. Zion was created by sons and daughters of God that were unified in principles (heart and mind) and moved forward with those principles eschewing all forms of evil. Zion is not a place that allows evil, it fully rejects it.

2) Yes, we are able to censor evil, and I believe we should; however, if we are among evil we are wise to educate our children according to principles of truth, not an acceptance of evil as we see today where people are calling good evil and evil good. Nephi censored the actions and lives of the Jews. He would not teach his children their actions because their actions were evil. Is it good to censor pornography? Yes. Is it good to censor according to the knowledge and age of a child? Yes.

The 13th Article of Faith I believe highlights censorship with the last sentence, "If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." I have family members who live alternative life styles and I don't think it wise (my personal thoughts) to censor their lives from my children. This is our opportunity to educate and to explain things according to gospel standards, and then with that knowledge they will be able to make a choice for themselves (which they will) as they get older.

3) I like VidAngel and disappointed in our movie business which seeks to crack down on this type of entertainment. VidAngel censors content that is inappropriate, vulgar, and many other things in movies that are put there without any merit or need -- just because they can.

As some have said, "If we fail to teach our children, the world will willing teach them." Educate children according to truth and we will do them a great favor. Introducing them to evil where they need not, we are failing them. I believe Nephi had the right attitude regarding censorship.

[Blackmarch]

On March 3, 2017 at 1:00 AM, Fether said:

I'm going to premise this with the fact that we are all infinitely different, we all have completely unique personalities and a wide arrange of eternally unique spiritual gifts (Spiritual gifts are endless in number and infinite in variety” - Bruce R. McConkie). so there may be varying answers from and for different people.

Basic question: When living our lives and raising children. Do we censor evil to prevent evil. Or do we educate about evil in hopes that we/those we teach will chose to avoid evil? Where does the balance lie?

Im a strong advocate for educating and less for censorship, though I do believe there is a time and a place for it. I feel like history and literature does a VERY good job of showing that complete censorship and removal of free flowing information only leads to war or rebellion (Fahrenheit 451, Netflix's The Colony, teenagers forced to only do what they are told, Facist and Dictator run Countries, Jim Jones and other cults, etc.). I was also raised by parents that allowed me to make decisions that they may not have agreed with, but let me experience the consequences for myself (I was never too wild if a person so they never feared I was going to go out and do anything too terrible. If I were different, maybe they would have reacted differently to me arriving home at 3am fevery other Friday night).

 

Theres a thousand dollar question. Most likely the answer lies somewhere in the middle..

My rule of thumb is that entertainment can be censored all the way. If you ever have to eat <fecal matter> make sure its not for entertainment.

However in regards to real education thats a much tougher call. but i think sticking to more abstract things while younger and then hitting the more gnarley stuff while older is doable tho.

My parents got rid of the TV early on. Turned out to be an excellent move on their part.

[Traveler]

I am an advocate of teaching by example.  My father use to say – If you see me doing it then it is okay and I will stand behind you if you so choose.  If you experiment you will have to take all the responsibility on yourself.   However, there is one other very important matter to consider that I do not think my father took into account.  There is scientific proof that the human brain is not fully developed until about age 25 and the last function to develop is what is called the executive logic function.  This includes the ability to make complex decisions that affect one’s future.  

In short if we think children and especially, teenagers, can make their own decisions with “proper” teaching – we are most certainly guaranteeing their failure for now and perhaps putting them into near unrecoverable learned life patterns of crippling and debilitating proportions. 

I believe our homes should be, as much as possible, safe zones.  The world will give them temptation enough.  What is taught in our homes should be the things children will need to succeed both spiritually and empirically.   Encouraging children to try foolish and silly things does not make them well rounded.

 

The Traveler

[Eydis]

On 3/3/2017 at 1:00 AM, Fether said:

I'm going to premise this with the fact that we are all infinitely different, we all have completely unique personalities and a wide arrange of eternally unique spiritual gifts (Spiritual gifts are endless in number and infinite in variety” - Bruce R. McConkie). so there may be varying answers from and for different people.

Basic question: When living our lives and raising children. Do we censor evil to prevent evil. Or do we educate about evil in hopes that we/those we teach will chose to avoid evil? Where does the balance lie?

Im a strong advocate for educating and less for censorship, though I do believe there is a time and a place for it. I feel like history and literature does a VERY good job of showing that complete censorship and removal of free flowing information only leads to war or rebellion (Fahrenheit 451, Netflix's The Colony, teenagers forced to only do what they are told, Facist and Dictator run Countries, Jim Jones and other cults, etc.). I was also raised by parents that allowed me to make decisions that they may not have agreed with, but let me experience the consequences for myself (I was never too wild if a person so they never feared I was going to go out and do anything too terrible. If I were different, maybe they would have reacted differently to me arriving home at 3am fevery other Friday night).

 

I believe it is best to teach my children the ability to discern evil. Then, whatever evil they are faced with they can avoid their self.  It is impossible to list out all the things one should avoid so it is best to teach them to rely on the spirit to help them discern what is evil.  The increasing challenge in the later days is the idea that Satan is more subtle and cunning.  Things that may seem good on the surface are sometimes a drag on our soul.  One example, is the prevalence of the desire to have one's 5 minutes of fame, posting pictures on snapchat or facebook etc. That may seem like a wholesome, fun social activity but can quickly become addicting and pull a child away from more important endeavors.  I like President Uchtdorf's talk "Are You Sleeping through the Restoration?" where he says he is not surprised that 'selfie' was the new word of the year. I tell my kids all the time that where much is given much is required.  I think sins of omission are probably a bigger challenge, a bigger evil nowadays because there is so much that could occupy our efforts and time.

President Uchtdorf, "A third obstacle that prevents us from fully engaging in this work is the many competing priorities we face. Some of us are so busy that we feel like a cart pulled by a dozen work animals—each straining in a different direction. A lot of energy is expended, but the cart doesn’t go anywhere.

Often we devote our best efforts in pursuit of a hobby, a sport, vocational interests, and community or political issues. All these things may be good and honorable, but are they leaving us time and energy for what should be our highest priorities?"

[JohnsonJones]

As man have pointed out, the two ideas are not exclusive. 

As an extreme (meaning this is an extreme, there are many levels far less extreme, it is extreme just as an example)

In the US, you can teach your children that drinking alcohol is not a good thing (and not just because of the Word of Wisdom).  You can teach them that it has bad effects.

That is very different than exposing them by giving beer or whiskey them at breakfast, lunch and dinner and letting them drink it whenever they want as a drink in the fridge (and in some places, not only is that bad, but illegal enough that you can go to jail for it).

There is a HUGE difference between educating your kids, and saying you are not going to restrict (or censor) their activities.  You can do both, because doing both is sometimes necessary (Especially if you don't want to go to jail or prison in many instances).

Edited March 9, 2017 by JohnsonJones