Is there a verse in the Word of Wisdom we all seem to ignore?

[The Folk Prophet]

8 hours ago, Fether said:

I belief the spirit of the Word of Wisdom is to live a healthy life. Physically, spiritually and emotionally.

I was mostly referencing the few comments I felt were referring to complete abstinence from meat, GMOs, soda, etc.

I personally have soda maybe once every couple months because of how unhealthy it is, but I feel uncomfortable suggesting to complete abstain from anything that prophets have not asked us to. I believe if there was a serious threat from specific foods, the prophets would let us know and remove them from the cafeterias they have control over.

Quantity plays a major role in the WOW.

Of course none of this could have been interpreted in my OG post x)

The main point I want to express is this. that taking such a hard stance as saying "abstinence from a substance that has not been suggested by prophets is the correct  way of living the WOW" is not what we should do. If we choose to live that way and teach our family to live that way, I feel it can bring AMAZING blessings to your family. But suggesting to others or even your family that eating any meat outside of a mass famine, or drinking a glass of soda once a week for dinner is a sinful act is not right.

Right. But the fact that the prophets and apostles have not suggested such-n-such is sufficient without turning to a random model such as what's served at a cafeteria, whose objective is merely to provide meals for people as a convenience rather than to establish doctrine.

My response is based in the idea that the food served in the temple is a far cry from healthy and anyone who ate every meal there wouldn't be eating healthy. It doesn't have any bearing on what we should and shouldn't generally be doing any more than Burger King does. Just as in the temple cafeterias, nothing served at Burger King is against the Word of Wisdom (with the exception of coffee/tea). And eating at Burger King is no sin. Eating there all the time would be a bad idea health-wise.

Edited July 12, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[Jojo Bags]

16 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Unless you personally are starving to death, you need to be very, very careful about condemning "GMO" food. In reality, it could save countless lives and end famines. To talk about how "evil" they are is the height of scientific ignorance and reeks of first world snobbishness and privilege.

Not at all.   GMO foods are not natural.   They are modfied and when you divert from the way our foods ere created, you are bringing on trouble.   GMO foods are banned in the majority of all countries, but not the good old U S of A, the most advanced country on earth.  We would certainly know what's best for the world,  right?  With our altruistic motives, we would never do anything to harm anyone!  Perish the thought.  

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

GMO foods are not natural.   .  

Being attacked by a bear is "natural". Is that good for you? Hurricanes are "natural". Are they good for you? Oleander is "natural". Is that good for you? The Bubonic Plague is "natural". Is that good for you? 

2 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

 They are modfied and when you divert from the way our foods ere created, you are bringing on trouble.   

Wrong. If we are so big into being "natural" none of us would be talking here right now over a computer. Which is not "natural". 

2 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

  GMO foods are banned in the majority of all countries, but not the good old U S of A, the most advanced country on earth.  

Odd that you seem to hate the USA but you are an LDS, which is the most "American" faith in the world.

The cool thing about science is that it's a harsh mistress. It doesn't care if you don't believe in gravity or GMO foods. The scientific truth exists regardless of you don't understand or agree with it. 

People generally fear what they don't understand. To some degree, that's why people hate and fear Mormonism. Same with GMO foods. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Jojo Bags said:

GMO foods are not natural.

Is that supposed to mean something? Natural = good? Unnatural = bad? End of story?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Jojo Bags said:

GMO foods are banned in the majority of all countries

Really?

https://gmo.geneticliteracyproject.org/FAQ/where-are-gmos-grown-and-banned/

http://sustainablepulse.com/2015/10/22/gm-crops-now-banned-in-36-countries-worldwide-sustainable-pulse-research/#.WWZFm4TyuUk

[Guest]

Quote

When nations ban the importation or cultivation of GMO products, such moves are generally driven not by science, as the independent science organizations in every major country have come out with public statements that GM products are safe. Other factors are trade protectionism, pressure from activists, public uneasiness or a desire to protect a country’s image—such as the French belief that genetic crops could “contaminate” the country’s reputation as a world food capital. As is often the case with GMOs, the situation in the European Union suggests how divisive and political this issue has become.

 

The EU has witnessed numerous skirmishes between scientists and politically-based opposition. Scottish leaders, for example, admitted that their decision to opt out of GMO cultivation was based on marketing concerns, rather than science. And when the European Commission’s science adviser, Anne Glover, spoke in favor of the science of genetic engineering, she found herself out of a job following intense lobbying by opposition groups. Bans almost always run counter to the advice of scientists and agricultural experts in the nations where they are implemented.

From Genetic Literacy Project.

[Snigmorder]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Which one?

Grandma second

 

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You're really not getting the notion of not getting a notion, are you?  What if the food preservation thing speaks directly to becoming vegetarian after all?  You don't know because you haven't event taken any time to think about it.  It's just plain wrong no matter what it actually means.

I think it speaks mostly to becoming a vegetarian anyway. I'm not sure what food preservation has to do with it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

Grandma second

 

I think it speaks mostly to becoming a vegetarian anyway. I'm not sure what food preservation has to do with it.

Exactly.  What if food preservation is about becoming vegetarian?  I have no idea what anyone was getting at in the first place. So, I'm not going to just jump to the conclusion that they are wrong.

[Snigmorder]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Exactly.  What if food preservation is about becoming vegetarian?  I have no idea what anyone was getting at in the first place. So, I'm not going to just jump to the conclusion that they are wrong.

Where in the passage do you think it's speaking of food preservation? Do you think it saying to preserve meat for "times of hunger, cold, or famine?"

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

Where in the passage do you think it's speaking of food preservation? Do you think it saying to preserve meat for "times of hunger, cold, or famine?"

I just told you that I have no idea.  That's why I brought it up, so that someone might be able to shed some light on the topic.  But all you're saying is that the Prophet was simply messed up in the head.  Forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

[Snigmorder]

Just now, Carborendum said:

I just told you that I have no idea.  That's why I brought it up, so that someone might be able to shed some light on the topic.  But all you're saying is that the Prophet was simply messed up in the head.  Forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

I didn't say he was messed up in the head. Whatever the reason he said it, it doesn't seem to be present in the text. 

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

GMO foods are not natural.   They are modfied and when you divert from the way our foods ere created, you are bringing on trouble.  

Hi Jojo,

I think I may have asked you this before, or maybe it was another anti-GMO person.  I've never been answered, so I'll ask again.  Please tell me which type of genetic modifications you think are not good, and why.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Fether]

I don't know about anyone else but I break out in hives if my food doesn't have GMO, preservatives, gluten, and isn't pastorized.

[Fether]

6 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Right. But the fact that the prophets and apostles have not suggested such-n-such is sufficient without turning to a random model such as what's served at a cafeteria, whose objective is merely to provide meals for people as a convenience rather than to establish doctrine.

My response is based in the idea that the food served in the temple is a far cry from healthy and anyone who ate every meal there wouldn't be eating healthy. It doesn't have any bearing on what we should and shouldn't generally be doing any more than Burger King does. Just as in the temple cafeterias, nothing served at Burger King is against the Word of Wisdom (with the exception of coffee/tea). And eating at Burger King is no sin. Eating there all the time would be a bad idea health-wise.

And what I'm saying is that maybe the WOW isn't so strict to suggest abstinence from meat, GMOs, chocolate, soda, etc is the right way to go when the church doesn't feel inclined to remove it from their menus.

I do believe there are blessings in abstaining from soda, but potential blessings don't make something essential for us.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I don't know about anyone else but I break out in hives if my food doesn't have GMO, preservatives, gluten, and isn't pastorized.

We'll have to talk to PC about that.  I didn't know protestants did such things.

[Fether]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

We'll have to talk to PC about that.  I didn't know protestants did such things.

I prefer the Lutheran ones

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Fether said:

I prefer the Lutheran ones

But Lutherans are called "ministers" not "pastors."

[prisonchaplain]

Maybe I'm the dumb kind of Christian, but I thought that in those faith traditions where the priesthood is taken up by many, then anytime food is prayed over it's pastorized. 

[Maureen]

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But Lutherans are called "ministers" not "pastors."

They're called both. ?

M.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, Maureen said:

They're called both. ?

M.

One of my best friends is Lutheran, Missouri Synod. At his wedding I asked the minster what to call him. I said "Father? Minister? Pastor?" He said "Just Dave is fine." 

[Fether]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

One of my best friends is Lutheran, Missouri Synod. At his wedding I asked the minster what to call him. I said "Father? Minister? Pastor?" He said "Just Dave is fine." 

So all Lutheran leaders are called Dave

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Fether said:

So all Lutheran leaders are called Dave

As a kid I didn't understand how Jim Kelly could play for the Buffalo Bills. 

[dahlia]

On 7/10/2017 at 10:53 PM, NeuroTypical said:

And it gets even weirder in section 49.  18-19:

Meat, ordained for man, for food and raiment, in abundance.  Use it sparingly, but have it in abundance.  It's enough to make even the most opinionated of message-board arguers like me, wonder what position I'm actually supposed to be entrenching myself in.

 

 

My position is a mostly dairy free (lactose intolerant) vegetarianism, and ethically, as close to veganism as I can be in terms of not having clothing or purses/wallets from leather, financially supporting animal rights organizations, and using my FB page to educate others and speak for the animals trapped in factory farms. People say moderation in all things - does that include moderation in sin? No.  We are supposed to make choices, to choose the right.  Following the middle road is weak. 

Most people are going to eat meat. I understand that. What I don't understand is the cruelty, the thoughtlessness about the welfare of other sentient beings, that is exhibited by many meat-eaters. For example, showing a picture of little piglets with the caption, "Bacon seeds." That tells me all I need to know about you and your lack of compassion.

This is from my collection of LDS leadership quotes on the issue: 

“John learned that God glorified Himself by saving all that His hands had made, whether beasts, fowls, fishes, or men." – Joseph Smith, Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 343.

"Mothers, keep the children from eating meat; and let them eat vegetables that are fully matured, not unripe..." -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol.19, p.68 - p.69, July 19, 1877.

"The Spirit of the Lord and the keys of the priesthood hold power over all animated beings ... In this dispensation the keys ... will be restored, and we are to return to the favor of the Lord ... cease hostility with the serpents and lay aside all enmity and treat all animals kindly." - Brigham Young, Brigham Young History, April 26, 1846.

“I think that another reason I have very splendid strength for an old man is that during the years we have had a cafeteria... I have not, with exception of not more than a dozen times, ordered meat of any kind. ...I have endeavored to live the Word of Wisdom and that, in my opinion, is one reason for my good health." - Heber J. Grant, Conference Report, April 1937, p. 15.

 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, dahlia said:

My position is a mostly dairy free (lactose intolerant) vegetarianism, and ethically, as close to veganism as I can be in terms of not having clothing or purses/wallets from leather, financially supporting animal rights organizations, and using my FB page to educate others and speak for the animals trapped in factory farms. People say moderation in all things - does that include moderation in sin? No.  We are supposed to make choices, to choose the right.  Following the middle road is weak. 

Most people are going to eat meat. I understand that. What I don't understand is the cruelty, the thoughtlessness about the welfare of other sentient beings, that is exhibited by many meat-eaters. For example, showing a picture of little piglets with the caption, "Bacon seeds." That tells me all I need to know about you and your lack of compassion.

This is from my collection of LDS leadership quotes on the issue: 

“John learned that God glorified Himself by saving all that His hands had made, whether beasts, fowls, fishes, or men." – Joseph Smith, Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 343.

"Mothers, keep the children from eating meat; and let them eat vegetables that are fully matured, not unripe..." -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol.19, p.68 - p.69, July 19, 1877.

"The Spirit of the Lord and the keys of the priesthood hold power over all animated beings ... In this dispensation the keys ... will be restored, and we are to return to the favor of the Lord ... cease hostility with the serpents and lay aside all enmity and treat all animals kindly." - Brigham Young, Brigham Young History, April 26, 1846.

“I think that another reason I have very splendid strength for an old man is that during the years we have had a cafeteria... I have not, with exception of not more than a dozen times, ordered meat of any kind. ...I have endeavored to live the Word of Wisdom and that, in my opinion, is one reason for my good health." - Heber J. Grant, Conference Report, April 1937, p. 15.

Don't kill the little birds.

https://www.lds.org/friend/1979/08/dont-kill-the-birds?lang=eng

I actually remember the following General Conference address by President Kimball when I was 15 years old.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1978/10/fundamental-principles-to-ponder-and-live?lang=eng

I am not a vegan nor a vegetarian. I am not overly offended by calling piglets "bacon seeds", but I am bothered by a casual attitude toward killing animals, even pests. I have long held that everyone who eats meat should be required to slaughter and clean at least one animal per year, just so they are well aware that meat doesn't come from the store. I personally dislike killing animals, even rats and mice, but I'm willing to do so. (I even have sympathy for spiders, but not much for flies. And I learned to loath cockroaches when we lived in Pennsylvania. But I still don't go out of my way to kill them -- especially when I'm living in a part of the world that is blessedly free from roaches.)

[SpiritDragon]

8 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Hi Jojo,

I think I may have asked you this before, or maybe it was another anti-GMO person.  I've never been answered, so I'll ask again.  Please tell me which type of genetic modifications you think are not good, and why.

 

 

Hi, Neuro perhaps you've never received an answer to which type of mutation is worse than any other, but I know I have have shared other reasons for concern with you. I don't really care one way or the other that GMO's are out there, but I personally prefer not to eat them. I realize that from your perspective this likely just seems to be fear-based uneducated hooey. First of all, I think it silly to refer to GMO's as though they are one entity - each particular specimen needs to be taken into consideration, I just had to get that out there (I'm not saying this is your position either BTW). From my perspective it is no more reasonable to suggest that all GMO's are and always will be safe than it is to say that all pharmaceuticals are and always will be safe for all people under all conditions, or all food for that matter. I am in favour of GMO labeling to allow consumer choice. People make all kinds of decisions for unscientific reasons and there is nothing wrong with that. When it comes to food choices people have concerns about health, philosophic ideologies, allergies and sensitivities to consider and even religious beliefs that come into play along with any number of other reasons. To me it just makes sense that the consumer should be given the choice and that if the product is viable enough to withstand the market than it will do so. How ridiculous would it be to go shopping for a vehicle, but you're not allowed to know how it was manufactured? Perhaps you'd prefer to buy a Honda because of a reliable track record, but end up with a garbage FORD. Perhaps you love FORD and consider Honda to be a cursed import, either way shouldn't the consumer have the right to know what they are buying? Isn't it even more important when the item is being ingested?

Why is it that GMO companies are so afraid of letting consumers know what they're getting? Because people wouldn't buy it? If it's so great, why not? I mean couldn't they appeal to consumers that want to save the world from hunger, or show people that their particular strain of rice has more nutrients and could even save money, because rice is cheap and other more expensive nutrient sources wouldn't be required. Surely they could make compelling arguments that would bring people with minds like yours flocking to buy them and be an advantage. So why hide? Shouldn't they be proud of their product and stand by it?

Edited July 13, 2017 by SpiritDragon