Are Big Miracles Performed by Modern-Day Prophets?

[clbent04]

Why do we not hear about Mormon prophets today performing big miracles like prophets in old and new testament? 

Noah constructed a great ark to be filled with a male and female from every living species on Earth; Moses parted the Red Sea, he smote a rock and out poured water, he lifted up a serpent of brass to save those who would look thereon; Elijah called down fire from Heaven to consume soldiers; Elisha multiplied a widow's oil, raised the dead, purified deadly food, multiplied bread and grain, healed leprosy, and floated an ax; Paul healed a cripple, he was stoned and revived, and he raised the dead.

Some say we don't need BIG miracles anymore because we no longer have such a need.  I would argue we need big miracles more than ever.  Do we not continue to have wars?  Do we not continue to have sick among us?  

Others would say we do hear of many miracles today in the church, but on a much more subtle level.  The sick are sometimes healed when Priesthood blessings are administered to them.  But these events are never publicized nor do they attract the same national attention as did miracles found within the Bible.

The fact miracles today are not publicized on a national level is what raises my skepticism.  If big miracles took place today, how would we be able to keep anyone quiet about it?  Was Jesus able to keep those whom he blessed quiet even when he specifically charged them to not say anything?  Did Jesus not gain national attention even when trying to avoid it?

Quote

Mark 1:41-45

41 And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean.

42 And as soon as he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him, and he was cleansed.

43 And he straitly charged him, and forthwith sent him away;

44 And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

45 But he went out, and began to publish it much, and to blaze abroad the matter, insomuch that Jesus could no more openly enter into the city, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter.

I've heard of miracles happening in the church, but none that are amazing enough to garner national attention. Every miracle I've heard of could be quickly written off by an outsider as a coincidence or happen chance.  Do we no longer have big miracles in the church today, and, if not, why?

We've had 16 modern-day prophets from 1830 to 2017, and yet none, to my knowledge, has performed a miracle that gained national attention as did many miracles we read of in the Bible.

1. Joseph Smith

2. Brigham Young

3. John Taylor

4. Wilford Woodruff

5. Lorenzo Snow

6. Joseph F. Smith

7. Heber J. Grant

8. George Albert Smith

9. David O. McKay

10. Joseph Fielding Smith

11. Harold B. Lee

12. Spencer W. Kimball

13. Ezra Taft Benson

14. Howard W. Hunter

15. Gordon B. Hinckley

16. Thomas S. Monson

I would think at least one miracle performed by one of these men would gain national attention by now if comparing these modern-day prophets with prophets of the Bible.  Take for example the healing of a blind man.  The medical community has declared the man's case to be incurable.  Then a modern-day prophet restores this man's sight.  Would the possibility exist for this man to exclaim to the world what happened out of sheer joy and excitement?  And at that point, would the medical professionals not review his claim to ensure he was indeed lost case?  And then wouldn't the journalists and news outlets share his story?  Seems like after 16 modern-day prophets, this would have occurred at least once.  

Does anyone know of a miracle performed by a modern-day prophet that gained national attention?  And no, I'm not looking for a sign, just a pattern between Mormon modern-day prophets and prophets of the Bible.

Edited August 20, 2017 by clbent04

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Why do we not hear about Mormon prophets today performing big miracles like prophets in old and new testament? 

Noah constructed a great ark to be filled with a male and female from every living species on Earth; Moses parted the Red Sea, he smote a rock and out poured water, he lifted up a serpent of brass to save those who would look thereon; Elijah called down fire from Heaven to consume soldiers; Elisha multiplied a widow's oil, raised the dead, purified deadly food, multiplied bread and grain, healed leprosy, and floated an ax; Paul healed a cripple, he was stoned and revived, and he raised the dead.

Some say we don't need BIG miracles anymore because we no longer have such a need.  I would argue we need big miracles more than ever.  Do we not continue to have wars?  Do we not continue to have sick among us?  

Others would say we do hear of many miracles today in the church, but on a much more subtle level.  The sick are sometimes healed when Priesthood blessings are administered to them.  But these events are never publicized nor do they attract the same national attention as did miracles found within the Bible.

The fact miracles today are not publicized on a national level is what raises my skepticism.  If big miracles took place today, how would we be able to keep anyone quiet about it?  Was Jesus able to keep those whom he blessed quiet even when he specifically charged them to not say anything?  Did Jesus not gain national attention even when trying to avoid it?

I've heard of miracles happening in the church, but none that are amazing enough to garner national attention. Every miracle I've heard of could be quickly written off by an outsider as a coincidence or happen chance.  Do we no longer have big miracles in the church today, and, if not, why?

We've had 16 modern-day prophets from 1830 to 2017, and yet none, to my knowledge, has performed a miracle that gained national attention as did many miracles we read of in the Bible.

1. Joseph Smith

2. Brigham Young

3. John Taylor

4. Wilford Woodruff

5. Lorenzo Snow

6. Joseph F. Smith

7. Heber J. Grant

8. George Albert Smith

9. David O. McKay

10. Joseph Fielding Smith

11. Harold B. Lee

12. Spencer W. Kimball

13. Ezra Taft Benson

14. Howard W. Hunter

15. Gordon B. Hinckley

16. Thomas S. Monson

I would think at least one miracle performed by one of these men would gain national attention by now if comparing these modern-day prophets with prophets of the Bible.  Take for example the healing of a blind man.  The medical community has declared the man's case to be incurable.  Then a modern-day prophet restores this man's sight.  Would the possibility exist for this man to exclaim to the world what happened out of sheer joy and excitement?  And at the point, would the medical professionals not review his claim to ensure he was indeed lost case?  And then wouldn't the journalists and news outlets share his story?  Seems like after 16 modern-day prophets, this would have occurred at least once.  

Does anyone know of a miracle performed by a modern-day prophet that gained national attention?  And no, I'm not looking for a sign, just a pattern between Mormon modern-day prophets and prophets of the Bible.

We live in a time when no one believes in miracles and the world would interpret them in evil ways (a generation of sign seekers), as opposed to the believing societies of ancient Israel.  As such, the Lord does not cast pearls before swine.  We are told to keep sacred experiences basically to ourselves.  I think miracles in this dispensation are happening but they are not publicized.

That said, the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, the settlement of Utah, exploding church numbers in a time of deep doubt, etc. all sound like big miracles to me.

Edited August 20, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[clbent04]

21 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

We live in a time when no one believes in miracles and the world would interpret them in evil ways (a generation of sign seekers), as opposed to the believing societies of ancient Israel.  As such, the Lord does not cast pearls before swine.  

I think the nature of man is just as prevalent today as it was 2,000 years ago. I don't see how the percentage of "swine" back then was any less than it is today. After all, the people who lived 2,000 years ago are the same people that crucified Jesus Christ

Edited August 20, 2017 by clbent04

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I think the nature of man is just as prevalent today as it was 2,000 years ago. I don't see how the percentage of "swine" back then was any less than it is today. After all, the people who lived 2,000 years ago are the same people that crucified Jesus Christ

Biblical miracles occurred in the context of a small theocracy of a few hundred thousand people.  It is unlikely these miracles were known elsewhere where people did not believe.  The only reason they are well known today on a worldwide scale is because the Roman Empire spread knowledge of the Bible over the known world.

You can read about latter day miracles in Church history, the Ensign, etc.  They are known to today's several million Mormons, but not elsewhere.  Just like before.

[clbent04]

1 minute ago, DoctorLemon said:

Biblical miracles occurred in the context of a small theocracy of a few hundred thousand people.  It is unlikely these miracles were known elsewhere where people did not believe.

Believers and non-believers lived in the same places, intermingled and lived among each other. And oftentimes, news of the miracles spread to the non-believers and converted them as believers

[person0]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

Why do we not hear about Mormon prophets today performing big miracles like prophets in old and new testament? 

People in our modern society don't know how to keep their mouth's shut, and both news and criticism of events spreads nearly instantaneously.  Miracles were never intended as a PR event.

Quote

4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
(Matt. 8:4)

Or perhaps some people have actually learned to keep these sacred moments to themselves, and as a result we don't hear of it!

[clbent04]

2 minutes ago, person0 said:

Or perhaps some people have actually learned to keep these sacred moments to themselves, and as a result we don't hear of it!

Doubtful!

[Fether]

@clbent04

A lot of what would pass as miracles in Christ's time can be done with modern technology and medicine. So why would we need "miracles" if we can do it ourselves.

but that doesn't answer for everything of course, just covers a lot of the "why aren't there headings anymore" and other similar miracles.

[seashmore]

It certainly sounds like you're seeking signs...

I think the revelation and organization of Pres. Young sending out rescue parties to the handcart companies qualifies as a miracle.

Although not a president of the church, I consider President Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to be a prophet and his discovery of how to stop and start hearts for surgical procedures a miracle. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by seashmore

[clbent04]

8 minutes ago, seashmore said:

It certainly sounds like you're seeking signs...

Ohhhhhh I was waiting for someone like you to comment. You miss my point if you think I'm asking for a sign.  I'm seeking a correlation between miracles performed by the prophets in the Bible and Mormon prophets today.  

13 minutes ago, seashmore said:

I consider President Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to be a prophet and his discovery of how to stop and start hearts for surgical procedures a miracle. 

If he performed a miracle there, we have a lot of other people (non-members included) who have made equally important contributions to the medical community whose accomplishments would be considered miracles

[Just_A_Guy]

There are a few things going on here:

1). When you speak of "nationwide fame", you need to remember that a) the miracle you point to were recorded in the Hebrew Bible, which can be . . . self-serving, at times; and b) when we talk of Jesus' fame being known "throughout the nation", we're talking about a geographical area about the size of Utah and Salt Lake Counties combined.  None of the miracles you cite are mentioned in ancient Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, or Roman sources (except the universal flood narrative, which occurs in a radically different context in old Babylonian/Sumerian legends).

2). Evangelical Christian websites are rife with stories of faith hearings that the medical community said were impossible, and that somehow escape the front pages.  Ours is a skeptical, "miracle-fatigued society".

3).  Mormonism does have a number of similar faith-healing type stories.  Joseph Smith healed repeatedly, and protected Zion's Camp with a providential storm.  Matthew Cowley raised a boy from the dead in Polynesia during his mission.  Brigham Young and Heber Kimball, during the course of their missionary service, benefited from a self-replenishing money bag that (IIRC) stretched a few cents into two-hundred-odd dollars over the course of several months.  And I'm aware of a number of more localized family stories as well, of quite recent vintage.

4). The New Testament records that there were places even Jesus Himself could work no miracle, due to the faithlessness of the people.  

5). Jesus taught that an adulterous generation seeks signs.  Statistics, I think, tell us that fewer than 1/5 of newlyweds in America today are virgins; and of those, plenty (myself included) have forfeited their innocence in other ways (porn use, inappropriate physical relations that stopped short of intercourse, etc).  Are we *sure* we aren't sign-seeking?

6). The power to work miracles is not limited to church members/priesthood holders.  Moses hankered after a nation of prophets; and to a degree--in spite of our collective wickedness--we've attained that, through the technological advances of the past two centuries.  The power of God is truly upon all nations in a very palpable way.  The question is whether we will recognize Him for these advances, or whether we will arrogate the credit to our own genius.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[seashmore]

6 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Ohhhhhh I was waiting for someone like you to comment. You miss my point if you think I'm asking for a sign.  I'm seeking a correlation between miracles performed by the prophets in the Bible and Mormon prophets today.  

How is "seeking correlation" different than seeking a sign? 

 

9 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

If he performed a miracle there, we have a lot of other people (non-members included) who have made equally important contributions to the medical community whose accomplishments would be considered

Yes, and.....? President Eyring just this last conference touched on the miracles of computer technology aiding the work of family history. If the power of God is the force behind any miracle, what difference does it make which of His children performs it?

[clbent04]

11 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

1). When you speak of "nationwide fame", you need to remember that a) the miracle you point to were recorded in the Hebrew Bible, which can be . . . self-serving, at times; and b) when we talk of Jesus' fame being known "throughout the nation", we're talking about a geographical area about the size of Utah and Salt Lake Counties combined.  None of the miracles you cite are mentioned in ancient Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, or Roman sources (except the universal flood narrative, which occurs in a radically different context in old Babylonian/Sumerian legends).

Thanks for the added information. However, even if it was the size of Utah and Salt Lake Counties combined, that's still a big area where believers and non-believers alike would live

11 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

2). Evangelical Christian websites are rife with stories of faith hearings that the medical community said were impossible, and that somehow escape the front pages.  Ours is a skeptical, "miracle-fatigued society".

They escape the front pages because every time a journalist does the investigative work they end up finding holes in the story that undermine the credibility of the account

11 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

3).  Mormonism does have a number of similar faith-healing type stories.  Joseph Smith healed repeatedly, and protected Zion's Camp with a providential storm.  Matthew Cowley raised a boy from the dead in Polynesia during his mission.  Brigham Young and Heber Kimball, during the course of their missionary service, benefited from a self-replenishing money bag that (IIRC) stretched a few cents into two-hundred-odd dollars over the course of several months.  And I'm aware of a number of more localized family stories as well, of quite recent vintage.

Ok, these are all good examples I'm unfamiliar with. Thanks. Still unsure why some of these wouldn't be more publicized

Edited August 20, 2017 by clbent04

[clbent04]

11 minutes ago, seashmore said:

How is "seeking correlation" different than seeking a sign? 

I'm just interested in the publicized aspect of it.  I don't care what the miracle is

12 minutes ago, seashmore said:

If the power of God is the force behind any miracle, what difference does it make which of His children performs it?

Then I suppose we both agree on this point

[Fether]

11 hours ago, clbent04 said:

I'm just interested in the publicized aspect of it.  I don't care what the miracle is

I had a councilor to the stake president who told a story of when Elder Perry came to visit. During a Q&A one bishop got the guts to ask him "why don't we see any miracles like we do in church history and in the scriptures anymore?". Elder Perry then preceded to point at the bishop and say "Bishop! They are happening! You just aren't paying attention!"

the councilor then went on to say "I then decided that my questions could wait for another time" x)

I personally find that answer... frustrating?? I'm careful with what I say because he was an apostle. But that answer wasn't inspired for me, but for that crowd.

[Anddenex]

Why do we not hear about Mormon prophets today performing big miracles like prophets in old and new testament? 

1) I think if we are all genuine to ourselves we have probably asked this same question.
2) Miracles for one have been for "believers" and increase the faith of those that already believe. One example I find truly intriguing is Jesus's experience with Herod who desired to see a miracle. No miracle was performed. Why? 2 Nephi 10 may shed some light, "For should the mighty miracles be wrought among other nations they would repent, and know that he be their God."
3) Miracles do not convert the faithless, let me provide one example from a conversation with an ex-Mormon, now Atheist (at the time). His father shared with him how on his mission he, through Christ, was able to heal a clubbed foot. The son, now Atheist, merely said, "I believe my father miss diagnosed the clubbed foot and it would have healed on its own. Other Atheists I have spoken with, if you can't perform the same miracle on someone else, right then and there, in front of their eyes -- it never happened.
4) Miracles are sacred experiences, and are not to be cast before swine (hard term for others to hear -- you often get -- are you calling me "swine?"). I think someone already mentioned, people are learning to keep sacred experiences sacred unless inspired by the Spirit. I have never publicized any miracle to the public (at least details), only to members of the Church.

Noah constructed a great ark to be filled with a male and female from every living species on Earth....

These miracles are an exception, not the rule. We are talking about specific times, and some times which fulfilled prophecy. An example of this type of miracle though was seen in the beginning of the Church and which has been publicized (yet, why not national attention? Because they don't care and they don't believe because they did not see it with their own eyes). Early Church history talks about a storm during a conference and the storm parted leaving the conference without a rain drop. Miracle, yes. Also, think about the time before Christ comes again, and the two prophets, which will be publicized before all, and think of the miracles and God's power being manifest plainly, and yet the natural man still does not convert. There are times or certain miracles, and there are times when they are not.

Some say we don't need BIG miracles anymore because we no longer have such a need.  I would argue we need big miracles more than ever.  Do we not continue to have wars?  Do we not continue to have sick among us?   Others would say we do hear of many miracles today in the church, but on a much more subtle level.  The sick are sometimes healed when Priesthood blessings are administered to them.  But these events are never publicized nor do they attract the same national attention as did miracles found within the Bible.

I would disagree personally with the first sentence; however, some "BIG" miracles are for specific purposes like addressed in my previous paragraph. Sick are healed among us, and from friends I know who have been in war they speak openly, if inspired, about miracles they encountered with other members. I would love to hear about "BIG" miracles, and I have heard of some, one particularly in my stake, but these are sacred events and experiences, and are not my place to share in an open forum, nor nationally. Elder Neal A. Maxwell came to BYU while I was attending and shared a wonderful miracle that happened to his ancestor. At the end of the talk he asked that his talk would not be written because he shared a miracle that he never shared in a open forum like that before. I have looked for his talk again to be able to remember exact details (so my second hand experience is more correct), but I have never found it. A lovely pearl this miracle was.

Did Jesus not gain national attention even when trying to avoid it?

No, Jesus did not gain national attention and for good reason as shared previously and again, "For should the mighty miracles be wrought among other nations they would repent, and know that he be their God." If Jesus gained national attention he would have never been crucified, and also remember the natural man seeks to hide miracles with a different explanation of the results. Think about the Pharisees and how they wanted the record to be written regarding Christ's body no longer in the tomb. We have miracles publicized in our scriptures and think how intriguing it is that Atheism is on the rise among our younger generations.

We've had 16 modern-day prophets from 1830 to 2017, and yet none, to my knowledge, has performed a miracle that gained national attention as did many miracles we read of in the Bible.

1) Joseph Smith and others healing people with Malaria. This is published material and the world ignores such a miracle with -- never happened!
2) Wilford Woodruff, I would recommend reading his biography. In this book they talk about his mission experiences and how he performed mighty miracles in the east missions of the United States. This is published material and these aren't going national -- why -- because the natural man doesn't care about what they can not see, hear, feel, or touch themselves. Why perpetuate a lie -- in their eyes.
3) I know of a mighty miracle from Elder Holland in Russia. National attention, none.
4) President Monson shares an experience while he visited one of the Polynesian islands. I find it interesting that he doesn't give any insight to the end of the blessing, he merely says what was pronounced and that they went their separate ways.

The question is, with all the miracles that have been published and are published why have they not received national attention? Why aren't people lining up to be baptized with all the miracles that were performed and are publicized?

Does anyone know of a miracle performed by a modern-day prophet that gained national attention?  And no, I'm not looking for a sign, just a pattern between Mormon modern-day prophets and prophets of the Bible.

Yes (Edit: meaning they have been published for the whole world to read), I have shared at least one that is published. There are plenty more. In some ways, I feel the same, let the whole world know, but then again, I am glad that these are kept sacred this way the glory returns to God, and not to man. I think this is one of the main reasons we are counseled not to tell the whole world. All we do is to glorify God, and if you notice, people who perform miracles often become the center of focus -- not God, but within sacred circles and when shared by the spirit these events glorify God and increase the faith of those present.

I assume, which you already know, the question (especially for us as priesthood holders) is have we ourselves been an instrument for God in performing a miracle, if not, why not?

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Anddenex

[Sunday21]

Here are a number of miracles:

https://history.lds.org/article/hawns-mill-face-wheel?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2004/10/miracles?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/children/resources/topics/priesthood-blessings?lang=eng&_r=1

i have had miracles occur in my life and I also know many people who have related miracles to me.

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Sunday21

[clbent04]

On 8/20/2017 at 9:07 AM, Anddenex said:

We've had 16 modern-day prophets from 1830 to 2017, and yet none, to my knowledge, has performed a miracle that gained national attention as did many miracles we read of in the Bible.

1) Joseph Smith and others healing people with Malaria. This is published material and the world ignores such a miracle with -- never happened!
 

@Anddenex Was this published by the church, or was it published by an independent party outside the church? I'm trying to find the reference

[SpiritDragon]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

@Anddenex Was this published by the church, or was it published by an independent party outside the church? I'm trying to find the reference

Just out of curiosity, because I'm not really sure what difference the answer to your question here makes, but... was the Hebrew bible documented by the Hebrew priests and scholars or did news media of the day find the stories so compelling they had to broadcast them? It's already been discussed that miracles operate on the power of faith, so obviously those without faith will opt to use every other means possible to explain what happened.

During the temple dedication at Kirtland there were pentecostal-like experiences with angelic visitations and manifestations of gifts of the spirit. Some felt that the temple was even on fire, but not being consumed and saw angels coming and going in great glory. Non-believers explained the events as a bunch of crazy mormons going around with torches and speaking gibberish trying to make it appear as though something special were taking place.

[Anddenex]

2 hours ago, clbent04 said:

@Anddenex Was this published by the church, or was it published by an independent party outside the church? I'm trying to find the reference

This was a Church video that they shared in Seminary regarding the faithfulness of the Saints, and here is the link you can read from, https://www.lds.org/manual/church-history-in-the-fulness-of-times-student-manual/chapter-seventeen-refuge-in-illinois?lang=eng.

Here is a great quote from it also:

Quote

“Then the Prophet of God spoke with a loud voice, as in the majesty of the Godhead: ‘Elijah, I command you, in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, to arise and be made whole!’

“The words of the Prophet were not like the words of man, but like the voice of God. It seemed to me that the house shook from its foundation.

“Elijah Fordham leaped from his bed like a man raised from the dead. A healthy color came to his face, and life was manifested in every act.”¹³

They next visited Joseph B. Noble, who was also healed. Wilford Woodruff remembered this as the “greatest day for the manifestation of the power of God through the gift of healing since the organization of the Church.”¹⁴

As the brethren were at the river bank preparing to cross back to Nauvoo, a nonmember who had heard of the miracles that day asked the Prophet if he would come and administer to his dying twin babies about two miles from Montrose. Joseph said he could not go, but he gave Wilford Woodruff a red silk handkerchief and told him to administer to them, promising that when he wiped their faces with it they would be healed. The Prophet also promised that the handkerchief would remain a bond between them as long as Wilford kept it. Obedient to the charge, Wilford testified that the children were healed. He treasured the keepsake the rest of his life.¹⁵

These are great examples of miracles through the Prophet that mortal/natural man will simply say "Never happened," because they weren't there to see it.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Anddenex

[Jojo Bags]

On 8/19/2017 at 6:23 PM, clbent04 said:

Why do we not hear about Mormon prophets today performing big miracles like prophets in old and new testament?

I'm going to go right to the heart of this post.  The answer is simple: lack of faith.  The Latter-day Saints are so taken in by secular teachings that many have strayed from the foundation laid by Joseph Smith.  Here is a quote from the diary of Elder Joseph Fielding Smith written in 1938.

Quote

I attended sessions of meetings for the institute teachers, held in the assembly room on the fourth floor of the Church Office Building.  I cannot say that I was very greatly edified.  Too much philosophy of a wordly nature does not seem to mix well with the fundamentals of the gospel.  In my opinion many of our teachers employed in the church school system have absorbed too much of the paganism of the world, and have accepted too readily the views of uninspired educators without regard for the revealed word of the Lord.  What to do about it I do not know. It is a problem for the Presidency to consider.  It is a very apparent fact that we have traveled far and wide in the past 20 years [since his father's death].  What the future will bring I do not know. But if we drift as far afield from fundamental things in the next 20 years, what will be left of the foundation laid by the Prophet Joseph Smith?  It is easy for one who observes to see how the apostasy came about in the Primitive Church of Jesus Christ.  Are we not traveling the same road?  The more I see of educated men—I mean those who are trained in the doctrines and philosophies now taught in the world, the less regard I have for them. Modern theories which are so popular today just do not harmonize with the gospel as revealed to the prophets, and it would be amusing if it were not a tragedy to see how some of our educated brethren attempt to harmonize the theories of men with the revealed word of the Lord.

Joseph Fielding Smith, The Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, p 212

In 1938, just 108 years from the founding of the Church, Elder Smith was lamenting the fact that the LDS had already strayed.  How far have members strayed since then?  When I lived in Australia, in one ward, I was called to be the first counselor in the Sunday school presidency.  I was specifically told that the reason for calling me was to watch out for false doctrine being taught in a couple Sunday school classes.  I had to correct the Gospel Doctrine teacher an average of three Sundays a month.  He was a college professor and loved to bring in little tidbits of secular wisdom that was not in harmony with the Gospel.  It got to the point that when I would raise my hand and clear my throat, he would flinch like a kid expecting to get whacked.  The Bible Dictionary in the official scriptures of the Church says, "All true faith must be based upon correct knowledge or it cannot produce the desired results."  Miracles cannot happen without true faith, but because many LDS have strayed from the original foundation laid down by Joseph Smith, miracles are not possible.  Many LDS believe in the wisdom and teachings of the world and "Mormonize" those teachings they agree with by cherry picking parts of the Gospel that "back" their acceptance of the world's teachings.  The temple teaches us that Satan will teach us philosophy mingled with scripture.  Nephi taught that "they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men."  (2 Nephi 28:14)

In 2001, the Deseret News published a survey conducted by the Barna Group in which LDS were asked if they believed that Satan was a real personage who influenced their lives.  An astonishing 41% of those surveyed did not believe this!  This, in spite of the fact that it is the doctrine of the Church that Satan and evil spirits are real.  This fulfills the prophecy of Nephi, "And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none...." (2 Nephi 28:22)  Now, things like possession by evil spirits in the scriptures are explained away as misunderstandings on the part of the writers of the Gospel.  The writers did not have the benefit of modern medical science, so they mistook possession for explainable illnesses.  What a crock of smelly biological waste products!  If evil spirits do not possess people, why was the very first power given to the Apostles by the Savior power over unclean spirits to cast them out? (Matt 10:1, Mark 6:7)  Why is the first sign to those that believe casting out devils? (Mark 6:17, Morm 9:24, D&C 84:67) Why is the first exception to not requiring miracles the miracle of casting out devils? (D&C 24:13)

As long as the LDS believe in the wisdom and teachings of the world, miracles simply are not possible.

 

 

[clbent04]

54 minutes ago, Jojo Bags said:

I'm going to go right to the heart of this post.  The answer is simple: lack of faith.  The Latter-day Saints are so taken in by secular teachings that many have strayed from the foundation laid by Joseph Smith. 

I like the fact you think for yourself and you don't just regurgitate what the general LDS population may think. It is actually very refreshing. Just because the general LDS population understands the influence of the devil differently than how it really is, doesn't mean we should accept the general thinking. 

As far as your answer as to why we don't see big miracles today, I think the average member does lack faith to perform big miracles. But is this any different to how it's always been? Average members, are, just average, right?

The only ones performing the BIG miracles have been prophets.  When it comes to these men, I have no doubt they could perform a BIG miracle if they wanted to. Just having interacted with bishops and stake presidents, I am completely amazed at how in tune these men are with the Spirit.  I have no doubt the level of faith only increases the higher up the ladder you go.  I know a couple stake presidents who I believe could command big miracles should they feel so inspired.  At least that is my spiritual read on them.

And then I look at someone like Thomas S. Monson. How could someone like that not command the Red Sea to part and have it obey?  54 years later and he still stands behind his pledge he made to his Lord and Savior.  What a powerful message to listen to from someone with a life so well lived.  If anyone hasn't seen this video yet, I would encourage you to watch from 5 minutes 25 seconds to the end at 6 minutes 24 seconds.  It's one minute of the most powerful testimony and display of faith I have ever seen as I reflect on President Monson's life.

While I don't doubt men like these could perform big miracles if they felt so inspired to do so, I just wonder if the publicity aspect of miracles being performed is the same today as it was in the times of the Old and New Testament.

Edited August 25, 2017 by clbent04

[Jojo Bags]

2 hours ago, clbent04 said:

The only ones performing the BIG miracles have been prophets.  When it comes to these men, I have no doubt they could perform a BIG miracle if they wanted to.

What would you consider a "big miracle?"  Changing the weather?  Stopping the rain?  Making fog go back?  Casting out unclean spirits and, as a result, healing the sick?  Raising the dead?  I have personally witnessed some of these performed by a complete nobody in the Church, except he had the necessary faith to do them.  There is no criteria for performing miracles other than it be the will of God and the person has sufficient faith.  The prophet or apostles don't do these miracles today because it is not God's will. 

Quote

Require not miracles, except I shall command you, except casting out devils, healing the sick, and against poisonous serpents, and against deadly poisons;
(Doctrine and Covenants 24:13)

Anything other than the above are not permitted except when God commands.  However, even the above requires a tremendous amount of faith, which the average LDS simply does not possess.  When someone is sick, I have heard Latter-day Saints say time and time again, "Call the doctor."  I do not hear, call the elders and give me a blessing.  In Elder's Quorum about three years ago, a brother asked for a blessing.  He said that he'd been sick for several weeks and had seen doctor after doctor, none of which helped him.  In asking for the blessing, he said, "I've tried everything else.  I might as well try a blessing."  His statement indicated that he had faith in doctors, which were his god, but not faith in his Heavenly Father.

[JohnsonJones]

Something to note about miracles.  The church has been around for less than 200 years.

Noah to Moses was a LOOOOONG time.  Many of what are considered miracles in the Bible would not be seen as such if done by modern day prophets, and in fact, some have been.  It was an even LONGER time from Maccabees (which we don't even have in our KJV) to the Savior.  200 years is a blink of an eye...nevertheless

Some of the miracles that have happened...

The coming forth of the Book of Mormon

That Joseph managed to get the Gold Plates and than translate them

The establishment of the LDS church into something that was somewhat sizeable in less than 20 years.

The moving of the LDS people from the East to Utah in such numbers and successfully fulfilling a prophecy that the desert would be transformed.

That a desert that no one considered habitable was not just inhabited, but turned into someplace with a LOT of Mormons.

The cholera epidemic where Joseph went around healing the sick.

The visions of the Angels and the restoration of Priesthood keys, including the sealing keys.

The mantle of Joseph Smith falling upon Brigham Young

The seagulls and the crickets.

The first year of the Saints in Utah and potato skins etc...

The Snakes in Manti and yet no one died.

And those are just the early days of the church.  There are probably enough to challenge any of the old Testament prophets in the numbers of miracles that happened with Joseph Smith, much less Brigham Young.

They have continued in our modern day, but you have to be watching and listening to catch them.  President Monson in his early years used to regal conference with stories of miracles in his life.

Edited August 25, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[clbent04]

16 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

What would you consider a "big miracle?"  Changing the weather?  Stopping the rain?  Making fog go back?  Casting out unclean spirits and, as a result, healing the sick?  Raising the dead?  I have personally witnessed some of these performed by a complete nobody in the Church, except he had the necessary faith to do them.  There is no criteria for performing miracles other than it be the will of God and the person has sufficient faith.  The prophet or apostles don't do these miracles today because it is not God's will. 

Anything other than the above are not permitted except when God commands.  However, even the above requires a tremendous amount of faith, which the average LDS simply does not possess.  When someone is sick, I have heard Latter-day Saints say time and time again, "Call the doctor."  I do not hear, call the elders and give me a blessing.  In Elder's Quorum about three years ago, a brother asked for a blessing.  He said that he'd been sick for several weeks and had seen doctor after doctor, none of which helped him.  In asking for the blessing, he said, "I've tried everything else.  I might as well try a blessing."  His statement indicated that he had faith in doctors, which were his god, but not faith in his Heavenly Father.

Ok, I get your point now. Maybe we are losing faith. Maybe we need more members to have the level of faith that this complete nobody you knew had. I know I would be inspired to have an increased level of faith upon seeing someone perform a miracle. Maybe we can increase our own faith and perform the very miracle that will inspire someone else to increase their faith. What's to stop any of us from performing miracles? Maybe then we could help elevate the level of faith of the Saints in our own circles